OT: Flying Tush Push

[NorthKCHawk]

Slow day. I was thinking of how absurd the tush push as an NFL play. It used to be illegal (remember Reggie Bush and USC) and I suspect the rule gets changed again because Philly is too damn good at it.

But, how about this. You put your smallest guy at QB, like a small slot reciever. Somebody like 170 pounds. You put two 300 pound DE two steps behind him on one knee shoulder to shoulder. QB takes a step back and sits on their shoulder pads and they instantly do a box jump and launch the guy in the air 10 feet over the line. Let's not get too bogged down with the physics or if this would really work. I mean they do it with Chinese acrobats in Vegas all the time. If it would work, is it legal? Seems like just an elaborate push, just like Philly does.

 

[Grady]

I don't know about the pros, but in college ball you're not allowed to use anything other than the ground as a launching pad. For example, to block a FG, you can't run, and then jump off the back of your own player to launch over the OLinemen or block the FG.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I don't know about the pros, but in college ball you're not allowed to use anything other than the ground as a launching pad. For example, to block a FG, you can't run, and then jump off the back of your own player to launch over the OLinemen or block the FG.

But I think that is a specific rule for FG and punt plays. You can't use another player as leverage to jump the line to block a kick. You can jump over it on your own.

I don't know that the rule applies to a regular play from scrimmage. To me, this is just an elaborate tush push. If you watch the Eagles, often time the QBs feet come off the ground as the pushers push him over the goal line, so that seems like there is already leverage.

 

[Grady]

But I think that is a specific rule for FG and punt plays. You can't use another player as leverage to jump the line to block a kick. You can jump over it on your own.

I don't know that the rule applies to a regular play from scrimmage. To me, this is just an elaborate tush push. If you watch the Eagles, often time the QBs feet come off the ground as the pushers push him over the goal line, so that seems like there is already leverage.

Perhaps it would be legal if they just picked up a small player and threw them over the LOS, without having that player launch off another player. You're right, that type of thing is the next logical step as long as they allow 'pushing' of your own teammate. I hated it when college ball changed to allow that -- I don't think it should be allowed and wouldn't be disappointed at all if a pro team hired a 100 lb female to dress and then just throw her over the top of the LOS down by the goal line. That's the kind of stupid stuff that rule wold seem to allow.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Perhaps it would be legal if they just picked up a small player and threw them over the LOS, without having that player launch off another player. You're right, that type of thing is the next logical step as long as they allow 'pushing' of your own teammate. I hated it when college ball changed to allow that -- I don't think it should be allowed and wouldn't be disappointed at all if a pro team hired a 100 lb female to dress and then just throw her over the top of the LOS down by the goal line. That's the kind of stupid stuff that rule wold seem to allow.

I agree. It is not a football play in my opinion. That said, I like the rule change that allows pushing and pulling as long as it happens organically during the play, and is not the actual purpose of the play. Meaning, I love it when a RB is caught in a scrum 10 yards down the field and big OL comes charging down the field and drills the pile and pushes the RB forward another 10 yards. That's bad ass. But, the play wasn't designed that way, it was just a good, tough, hustle play by the big guy. I am fine with that.

But, when you line up with the intent of pushing the ball carrier through, that is rugby, not football.

You could fix this in a couple ways.

1. Change the rule so that pushing and pulling of a ball carrier can only occur once the carrier has crossed the line of scrimmage.
2. Require any pushers to be set up at least two yards behind the QB so that they basically have to crash into the QB, not just push. Make it hurt.
3. Or just ban the play. You cannot set up to push a QB from behind on purpose. Unsportsmanlike.

Either way, I hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some pushing/pulling of ball carriers is a great part of the game, just not this.

 

[Fryowa]

Slow day. I was thinking of how absurd the tush push as an NFL play. It used to be illegal (remember Reggie Bush and USC) and I suspect the rule gets changed again because Philly is too damn good at it.

But, how about this. You put your smallest guy at QB, like a small slot reciever. Somebody like 170 pounds. You put two 300 pound DE two steps behind him on one knee shoulder to shoulder. QB takes a step back and sits on their shoulder pads and they instantly do a box jump and launch the guy in the air 10 feet over the line. Let's not get too bogged down with the physics or if this would really work. I mean they do it with Chinese acrobats in Vegas all the time. If it would work, is it legal? Seems like just an elaborate push, just like Philly does.

What I've never understood is why for goal line and 4th and inches scenarios they don't find some 6'10" 230# P6 basketball player who could easily line up in the backfield and jump over the line to gain. The average NBA wing span I saw online for that height is 9'2". All they'd have to do is cross the plane in the endzone and it's a done deal. Direct snap it to the guy and with a running start and jump there's no stopping a TD at that point. One would think you could find a guy like that with hands and not be afraid of a fumble on the snap. But who knows?

 

[NorthKCHawk]

What I've never understood is why for goal line and 4th and inches scenarios they don't find some 6'10" 230# P6 basketball player who could easily line up in the backfield and jump over the line to gain. The average NBA wing span I saw online for that height is 9'2". All they'd have to do is cross the plane in the endzone and it's a done deal. Direct snap it to the guy and with a running start and jump there's no stopping a TD at that point. One would think you could find a guy like that with hands and not be afraid of a fumble on the snap. But who knows?

Remember when Wegher used to do his goal line leap? Take the handoff and launch over the top? You don't see that very often, but it was damn near unstoppable unless the LB could time the jump and meet him midair. That's a fun play, but it can be stopped. Very few RBs have the stones to launch like that.

I like your NBA player idea, but you would need a special guy to do that. He is going to take a beating when he jump over the line and lanky guys like that have a lot of knees and joints to hurt. That said, you could use that same guy on field goal block teams. Have him burrow in behind the DL and time his jump to get a hand on the ball.

 

[RyDogg]

I agree. It is not a football play in my opinion. That said, I like the rule change that allows pushing and pulling as long as it happens organically during the play, and is not the actual purpose of the play. Meaning, I love it when a RB is caught in a scrum 10 yards down the field and big OL comes charging down the field and drills the pile and pushes the RB forward another 10 yards. That's bad ass. But, the play wasn't designed that way, it was just a good, tough, hustle play by the big guy. I am fine with that.

But, when you line up with the intent of pushing the ball carrier through, that is rugby, not football.

You could fix this in a couple ways.

1. Change the rule so that pushing and pulling of a ball carrier can only occur once the carrier has crossed the line of scrimmage.
2. Require any pushers to be set up at least two yards behind the QB so that they basically have to crash into the QB, not just push. Make it hurt.
3. Or just ban the play. You cannot set up to push a QB from behind on purpose. Unsportsmanlike.

Either way, I hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some pushing/pulling of ball carriers is a great part of the game, just not this.

I disagree that it's not a football play and feel you can't whine about it when run that way and be OK with or celebrate it when an OL comes in and shoves the RB for more yards. They are both assisting the runner, legal and should stay legal in my opinion. I actually like seeing the tush push much more than the handoff to the RB to try and pound it through the line.

To me it seems like sour grapes from teams that A: can't stop it and B: can't do it as well.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I disagree that it's not a football play and feel you can't whine about it when run that way and be OK with or celebrate it when an OL comes in and shoves the RB for more yards. They are both assisting the runner, legal and should stay legal in my opinion. I actually like seeing the tush push much more than the handoff to the RB to try and pound it through the line.

To me it seems like sour grapes from teams that A: can't stop it and B: can't do it as well.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. I don't think it is a football play and it is only leading to weird things like the Commanders guy jumping at the QB twice and when they run it everyone lines up offsides and the refs don't call it. Hell, their helmets are practically touching before the snap. Ultimately, I think they will take it out both because it has become a non-competitive play for the Eagles. The success rate is what PATs were before they moved it back. However, the league will say they are taking it out for safety reasons, which honestly, there is some validity to that. You have one of the leagues premier QBs tossed into a 5000 pound scrum and LBs taking running starts at him. That doesn't even take into account the danger to the lineman in that pile of mess. Shit, you could not pay me to be that center at the bottom of that pile.

 

[JoeyLabasForPresident]

Slow day. I was thinking of how absurd the tush push as an NFL play. It used to be illegal (remember Reggie Bush and USC) and I suspect the rule gets changed again because Philly is too damn good at it.

But, how about this. You put your smallest guy at QB, like a small slot reciever. Somebody like 170 pounds. You put two 300 pound DE two steps behind him on one knee shoulder to shoulder. QB takes a step back and sits on their shoulder pads and they instantly do a box jump and launch the guy in the air 10 feet over the line. Let's not get too bogged down with the physics or if this would really work. I mean they do it with Chinese acrobats in Vegas all the time. If it would work, is it legal? Seems like just an elaborate push, just like Philly does.

There's something to be said here for getting some children on scholarship and just shot putting them into the endzone from the twenty yard line.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

There's something to be said here for getting some children on scholarship and just shot putting them into the endzone from the twenty yard line.

That made me chuckle. How about this? KF recruits one of the cheerleaders who is normally a top the pyramid to suit up, she gets chucked over the line for a TD and becomes the first woman to score a TD in the history of major college football.

 

[RyDogg]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. I don't think it is a football play and it is only leading to weird things like the Commanders guy jumping at the QB twice and when they run it everyone lines up offsides and the refs don't call it. Hell, their helmets are practically touching before the snap. Ultimately, I think they will take it out both because it has become a non-competitive play for the Eagles. The success rate is what PATs were before they moved it back. However, the league will say they are taking it out for safety reasons, which honestly, there is some validity to that. You have one of the leagues premier QBs tossed into a 5000 pound scrum and LBs taking running starts at him. That doesn't even take into account the danger to the lineman in that pile of mess. Shit, you could not pay me to be that center at the bottom of that pile.

I agree, what is allowed regarding offsides by both teams on the tush push is ridiculous, but why not just properly enforce the rule? You can't just eliminate a play because one team is almost automatic with it. That opens up a huge can of worms if you do that.

Regarding safety:

NFL says there were no injuries on tush push plays in 2024

Eagles head coach Nick Sirianni called talk of banning the tush push play that his team has made a staple of their offense "unfair" earlier this week and took particular aim at arguments that the play was unsafe.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I agree, what is allowed regarding offsides by both teams on the tush push is ridiculous, but why not just properly enforce the rule? You can't just eliminate a play because one team is almost automatic with it. That opens up a huge can of worms if you do that.

Regarding safety:

NFL says there were no injuries on tush push plays in 2024

Eagles head coach Nick Sirianni called talk of banning the tush push play that his team has made a staple of their offense "unfair" earlier this week and took particular aim at arguments that the play was unsafe.

www.nbcsports.com

The NFL changes rules all the time if they can make the product safer and more interesting. They moved the PAT back because it was boring and automatic. Same with the kick off rule change this year. I agree that it is weird to change a rule because one team mastered it, but that is not a completely accurate statement. Lots of teams run a version of the tush push and do so successfully. The Eagles are just the best at it and made it famous.

And while there have not been injuries on the play yet, more weird shit is going to happen. If Philly has the ball on the 1 foot line, the defense has nothing to lose. I would continue to send my middle LB at Hurtz and try to time the snap and drill him helmet to helmet. If you are early, so what? It might even get worse than that. You could back up the entire defense three yards and take a running start at the Eagles offense and drill every guy as hard as you can. If you get there early, three times, and the ref awards a score, oh well, they were gonna score anyway. Might as well get some licks in.