OT: Electric Vehicles

[Fryowa]

Question (many questions I guess)...

A friend and coworker of mine is pretty set on buying an EV. He actually brought the topic up to me and asked what I thought, and to be honest I've tried to somewhat talk him out of it. Here's the situation...

We live in the same town in NW Iowa, and most of you know that the winters here can be absolutely brutal. It's by far the windiest part of the state and there are times we can go two weeks or more of below zero temps. I bought a new vehicle a few months ago, and although I never seriously considered an EV I did look into them just because stuff like that interests me. The main reason I told him to avoid it was because of range in the winter. I know all the manufacturers all claim very mild range reductions in cold weather, but those are based on much higher temps than what we experience here (20s and above), minimal heater use, etc. Also, when looking into them I saw that regardless of manufacturer claims, real world reports from owners are saying like a 40-60% reduction in range when its really cold out, and most of those reports are still in that 20* range.

He's a guy who makes pretty frequent trips to like Sioux Falls and Sioux City (both 130 mile round trips for us), and there are very few stations around us so most of his charging would have to be done at home. That's right on the edge of that 40-60% reduction, and again that's under "mild" winter conditions when compared to NW Iowa. Make it 10 below outside where you almost have to have your heater on full blast, and I can see him running into trouble pretty quick.

I'm pretty good friends with this person and I don't want to see him stick a down payment and trade-in on a major purchase and find out he effed up. He's not a car guy or mechanically inclined at all, so to me he's really just going on manufacturer claims. Neither of us know anyone who has an EV so there really isn't a whole lot of testimonial experience to go on.

Any of you guys own, have owned, or know someone well who does own an EV in the midwest north of I-80? This would be his only vehicle and a daily driver if he buys it. I'm completely oblivious to ownership of EVs, maybe I'm way off base, who knows?

 

[okeefe4prez]

EVs are great for commuting in town. The tech in them is amazing and they have insane power off the line. They are really cool. But the batteries are not ready for prime time yet. The range deteriorates quickly. I absolutely would not buy one to drive long distances in rural Iowa with its harsh winters. Tell him to get a hybrid if he wants to support the EV movement. He needs to wait another few years for batteries to get better before going all-in.

 

[Fryowa]

EVs are great for commuting in town. The tech in them is amazing and they have insane power off the line. They are really cool. But the batteries are not ready for prime time yet. The range deteriorates quickly. I absolutely would not buy one to drive long distances in rural Iowa with its harsh winters. Tell him to get a hybrid if he wants to support the EV movement. He needs to wait another few years for batteries to get better before going all-in.

If I lived south of say, KC I'd probably be tempted to try it. But not up here.

 

[westender]

Probably wait about 10 years before I would buy one. A lot of bugs will be worked out and if they are really gonna expand their market they have to address the cold weather issues.

 

[westender]

Elon Musk is a crazy SOB sometimes but man he usually delivers in the end.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Question (many questions I guess)...

A friend and coworker of mine is pretty set on buying an EV. He actually brought the topic up to me and asked what I thought, and to be honest I've tried to somewhat talk him out of it. Here's the situation...

We live in the same town in NW Iowa, and most of you know that the winters here can be absolutely brutal. It's by far the windiest part of the state and there are times we can go two weeks or more of below zero temps. I bought a new vehicle a few months ago, and although I never seriously considered an EV I did look into them just because stuff like that interests me. The main reason I told him to avoid it was because of range in the winter. I know all the manufacturers all claim very mild range reductions in cold weather, but those are based on much higher temps than what we experience here (20s and above), minimal heater use, etc. Also, when looking into them I saw that regardless of manufacturer claims, real world reports from owners are saying like a 40-60% reduction in range when its really cold out, and most of those reports are still in that 20* range.

He's a guy who makes pretty frequent trips to like Sioux Falls and Sioux City (both 130 mile round trips for us), and there are very few stations around us so most of his charging would have to be done at home. That's right on the edge of that 40-60% reduction, and again that's under "mild" winter conditions when compared to NW Iowa. Make it 10 below outside where you almost have to have your heater on full blast, and I can see him running into trouble pretty quick.

I'm pretty good friends with this person and I don't want to see him stick a down payment and trade-in on a major purchase and find out he effed up. He's not a car guy or mechanically inclined at all, so to me he's really just going on manufacturer claims. Neither of us know anyone who has an EV so there really isn't a whole lot of testimonial experience to go on.

Any of you guys own, have owned, or know someone well who does own an EV in the midwest north of I-80? This would be his only vehicle and a daily driver if he buys it. I'm completely oblivious to ownership of EVs, maybe I'm way off base, who knows?

In my opinion, cold and batteries never have gone well together. I'm still not sold on 100% electric for power for vehicles. Just have him get a quote for the purchase of new batteries. This might help change his mind. I would recommend he go the hybrid route instead of 100% electric at this point and the kind of traveling required in your area. I think of 100% electric as putting around the city where can charge at night. I personally don't want to have to locate charge stations hoping one will be were I will need one.

 

[Hawk1960]

My son bought a Tesla Model 3 about 18 months ago. When he told me he was going to buy it I was skeptical at first. Once I got in it and drove it I was thoroughly impressed. The acceleration and quietness of the vehicle are truly unbelievable. Yes, you do lose some range in colder weather so my first question to your friend would be what are his typical commute and long range travel needs. If there is a larger battery capacity on the model he is considering go with the extra capacity for Iowa weather. If your daily commute is less than 150 miles the range concerns are not really relevant in my opinion. Just charge it up every night when you return from work.

Longer trips is where range is more of an issue of course. However, we drove this Tesla in early October from Eastern Iowa to Estes Park and other parts of Colorado and back and it was a piece of cake. They show you the charging stations and your estimated range left as you get to those stations along the route. He ordered the dual motor (for Iowa snow) and bigger battery capacity so we stopped about every 200 miles to charge up at a supercharger. We typically stop about every 3 hours to take a bathroom break and stretch anyway, so no big deal for us. 20-25 minutes to charge up at a Tesla super station and your on your way. We would also time these stops for lunch and dinner so while we were dining you can watch the battery capacity go up on your smartphone. We also charged up at our overnight hotels stays along the way so had full range first thing in the morning.

One other thing to consider is electricity cost. Although Iowa is cold in the winter, we have some of the lowest price electricity in the country. The first couple months he had the vehicle he kept track of his electricity cost vs. the cost of regular gas he would have spent with his previous V-6. The electricity costs were running about 25-30% of gasoline for him ... that was mixed city and highway driving over a couple months.

 

[PCHawk]

Did anyone else think Fry was going to say winters are so cold in iowa that we need to promote global warming?

 

[Denverhawk1]

I had a Prius for 5 years. Live in Denver. Drove that thing like a rented mule. Now, a hybrid, not true electric. But... 275,000 miles, never got stuck, never had a battery problem. Not once. Never even changed brake pads. Because the battery charges through the friction applied to slow down the car, the heat is dissipated. Only thing I changed was tires, wipers, oil, filters and bulbs. Head gasket blew at 275,000 miles and was cheaper to unload. I hated that car, it’s was ugly, weird, creepy quiet, etc... but honestly, most durable thing I’ve ever had. We were trying to pay for a wedding when the 4Runner died and the savings in fuel offset the payment, entirely. So, Prius it was.

honestly, if you can get over the ugly, weird, creepy quiet mangina aspect of it, might be the smartest option to make.

 

[Fryowa]

My son bought a Tesla Model 3 about 18 months ago. When he told me he was going to buy it I was skeptical at first. Once I got in it and drove it I was thoroughly impressed. The acceleration and quietness of the vehicle are truly unbelievable. Yes, you do lose some range in colder weather so my first question to your friend would be what are his typical commute and long range travel needs. If there is a larger battery capacity on the model he is considering go with the extra capacity for Iowa weather. If your daily commute is less than 150 miles the range concerns are not really relevant in my opinion. Just charge it up every night when you return from work.

Longer trips is where range is more of an issue of course. However, we drove this Tesla in early October from Eastern Iowa to Estes Park and other parts of Colorado and back and it was a piece of cake. They show you the charging stations and your estimated range left as you get to those stations along the route. He ordered the dual motor (for Iowa snow) and bigger battery capacity so we stopped about every 200 miles to charge up at a supercharger. We typically stop about every 3 hours to take a bathroom break and stretch anyway, so no big deal for us. 20-25 minutes to charge up at a Tesla super station and your on your way. We would also time these stops for lunch and dinner so while we were dining you can watch the battery capacity go up on your smartphone. We also charged up at our overnight hotels stays along the way so had full range first thing in the morning.

One other thing to consider is electricity cost. Although Iowa is cold in the winter, we have some of the lowest price electricity in the country. The first couple months he had the vehicle he kept track of his electricity cost vs. the cost of regular gas he would have spent with his previous V-6. The electricity costs were running about 25-30% of gasoline for him ... that was mixed city and highway driving over a couple months.

Thanks. Very helpful. Some other questions if you have the time, if not no biggie.

Would you say someone could get 150 mile range on a -10* day running the heater hard enough to be in shirt sleeves?

Is that 20-25 minutes a full charge?

Will a Tesla 3 charge fully overnight just on a 120 wall outlet?

How much does it cost to charge at SuperChargers?

 

[westender]

My son bought a Tesla Model 3 about 18 months ago. When he told me he was going to buy it I was skeptical at first. Once I got in it and drove it I was thoroughly impressed. The acceleration and quietness of the vehicle are truly unbelievable. Yes, you do lose some range in colder weather so my first question to your friend would be what are his typical commute and long range travel needs. If there is a larger battery capacity on the model he is considering go with the extra capacity for Iowa weather. If your daily commute is less than 150 miles the range concerns are not really relevant in my opinion. Just charge it up every night when you return from work.

Longer trips is where range is more of an issue of course. However, we drove this Tesla in early October from Eastern Iowa to Estes Park and other parts of Colorado and back and it was a piece of cake. They show you the charging stations and your estimated range left as you get to those stations along the route. He ordered the dual motor (for Iowa snow) and bigger battery capacity so we stopped about every 200 miles to charge up at a supercharger. We typically stop about every 3 hours to take a bathroom break and stretch anyway, so no big deal for us. 20-25 minutes to charge up at a Tesla super station and your on your way. We would also time these stops for lunch and dinner so while we were dining you can watch the battery capacity go up on your smartphone. We also charged up at our overnight hotels stays along the way so had full range first thing in the morning.

One other thing to consider is electricity cost. Although Iowa is cold in the winter, we have some of the lowest price electricity in the country. The first couple months he had the vehicle he kept track of his electricity cost vs. the cost of regular gas he would have spent with his previous V-6. The electricity costs were running about 25-30% of gasoline for him ... that was mixed city and highway driving over a couple months.

Must not be an Alliant Energy customer.

 

[westender]

Not sure how this gets taxed in terms of road use, but sooner or later the government will catch up and get it added in there somehow.

 

[Fryowa]

The other thing I think about is service. The closest (Tesla) service center to us is three and a half hours away. If he had a warranty issue or say, needed to fix a small broken item, etc., it'd be a humongous ordeal.

Not sure how the Chevy Bolt or BMWs are handled by dealers. I've been too lazy to look.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

The other thing I think about is service. The closest (Tesla) service center to us is three and a half hours away. If he had a warranty issue or say, needed to fix a small broken item, etc., it'd be a humongous ordeal.

Not sure how the Chevy Bolt or BMWs are handled by dealers. I've been too lazy to look.

May want to check, but they may come and pick the Tesla up to take to repair. Might be in the agreement.

 

[Hawk1960]

Thanks. Very helpful. Some other questions if you have the time, if not no biggie.

Would you say someone could get 150 mile range on a -10* day running the heater hard enough to be in shirt sleeves?

Is that 20-25 minutes a full charge?

Will a Tesla 3 charge fully overnight just on a 120 wall outlet?

How much does it cost to charge at SuperChargers?

With a Tesla Model 3 and the larger battery, yes, to your first question. I would say that -10 degree day would cut your advertised range by 20-25%. If my memory is correct the Model 3 has 220 miles of range with the larger battery. His car is two years old now so newer models may have more.

When we drove to Colorado we were going down to anywhere from 10-20% of power remaining and then he would charge it up at the superstation until it hit 90% of full.

The cost to charge at the superstations depends on what state you are in. I think the way it works is Tesla has a fee and some of the states have an electricity tax on top of that. I just remember we were filling up in Iowa and Nebraska for about $6 - $7 at the superchargers. They also give you some free minutes on the superchargers every year ... i think that works out to be about 1000 miles of range.

You can plug in the model 3 in to a regular wall outlet but the charge up is only like 4 miles of range per hour when he does that in my garage when visiting. That's called "Level 1" charging. He installed the Tesla home charge kit in his garage and he can easily charge it up to 90% full overnight. When he plugs that in it typically adds 44 miles of range per hour. This is "Level 2" charging and runs at 240 volts and up to 80 amps. He usually charges up when he gets down to 20% of battery capacity. He commutes about 16 miles per day and charges it up overnight once a week. The Tesla superchargers around the country are what they call "Level 3" and run at 480 volts and 300 amps. They will add 170 miles of range in 30 minutes. I think they also have some upgraded superchargers that are quicker than that now.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Thanks. Very helpful. Some other questions if you have the time, if not no biggie.

Would you say someone could get 150 mile range on a -10* day running the heater hard enough to be in shirt sleeves?

Is that 20-25 minutes a full charge?

Will a Tesla 3 charge fully overnight just on a 120 wall outlet?

How much does it cost to charge at SuperChargers?

My neighbor has a plug in hybrid dodge and the standard plug charge rate is comical. You have to budget to put in the big daddy charger that pulls off your dryer electrical hookup.

 

[Hawk1960]

The other thing I think about is service. The closest (Tesla) service center to us is three and a half hours away. If he had a warranty issue or say, needed to fix a small broken item, etc., it'd be a humongous ordeal.

Not sure how the Chevy Bolt or BMWs are handled by dealers. I've been too lazy to look.

So far he has had all his service work done by a mobile Tesla service truck that comes to his house. The mobile guy can't do all repairs but it's pretty amazing what he can do. Any major repair would have to be done at a Tesla dealer. Only a matter of time before we have a Tesla dealer in Iowa (probably located in DM) with the growing Tesla population I see around the state.

 

[Fryowa]

With a Tesla Model 3 and the larger battery, yes, to your first question. I would say that -10 degree day would cut your advertised range by 20-25%. If my memory is correct the Model 3 has 220 miles of range with the larger battery. His car is two years old now so newer models may have more.

When we drove to Colorado we were going down to anywhere from 10-20% of power remaining and then he would charge it up at the superstation until it hit 90% of full.

The cost to charge at the superstations depends on what state you are in. I think the way it works is Tesla has a fee and some of the states have an electricity tax on top of that. I just remember we were filling up in Iowa and Nebraska for about $6 - $7 at the superchargers. They also give you some free minutes on the superchargers every year ... i think that works out to be about 1000 miles of range.

You can plug in the model 3 in to a regular wall outlet but the charge up is only like 4 miles of range per hour when he does that in my garage when visiting. That's called "Level 1" charging. He installed the Tesla home charge kit in his garage and he can easily charge it up to 90% full overnight. When he plugs that in it typically adds 44 miles of range per hour. This is "Level 2" charging and runs at 240 volts and up to 80 amps. He usually charges up when he gets down to 20% of battery capacity. He commutes about 16 miles per day and charges it up overnight once a week. The Tesla superchargers around the country are what they call "Level 3" and run at 480 volts and 300 amps. They will add 170 miles of range in 30 minutes. I think they also have some upgraded superchargers that are quicker than that now.

My neighbor has a plug in hybrid dodge and the standard plug charge rate is comical. You have to budget to put in the big daddy charger that pulls off your dryer electrical hookup.

So far he has had all his service work done by a mobile Tesla service truck that comes to his house. The mobile guy can't do all repairs but it's pretty amazing what he can do. Any major repair would have to be done at a Tesla dealer. Only a matter of time before we have a Tesla dealer in Iowa (probably located in DM) with the growing Tesla population I see around the state.

Thanks for the info.

 

[trj]

I'm a vain and shallow guy. Are there any that make me look cool and that I am a straight up baller when in reality I am neither?

 

[westender]

Batteries supposed to last the life of the car? Or how long and how much is replacement cost?