Once again... Big Jim proves to be king

Billso said:
NFL>college is a common misconception, making it a popular interview question for sports marketing jobs.

I was in the sports business for 8 years. College football in total has a larger fanbase (177mm+), over double the total attendance (43mm vs. 17mm) and generates more total money than NFL. Licensing alone generates over $4B at retail, surpassed only by MLB (College sports license market tackled by recession | Reuters). This isn't speculation but fact, pick up the Sports Business Journal or talk to any experienced marketer, the data is out there. The reason it doesn't "feel" that way is that the college market is fragmented across conferences and 100's of teams, while the NFL receives focused promotion by the networks.

NFL playoffs get higher ratings than bowl broadcasts but that's a separate issue.
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What would those college football numbers look like if there were only 32 Division one football teams?
 
Xerxes said:
In Iowa and other states without NFL teams college football is more popular.

As a whole, across the nation, its the NFL and its not even close. All you have to do is take a look at the TV ratings.
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I have. College football attracted 200 million viewers in the 2010 regular season, the NFL got 208 million. Bowl games attracted another 134 million viewers. The Super Bowl attracted 106.5 million, the most popular TV program in history; NFC/AFC championship games get ~30mm ranging as high as 43.5 million for Jets/Pats; highest college rating was BCS championship at 27 million.

For individual game ratings, NFL trounces college; for total cumulative ratings, they're quite close. And in total fanbase, attendance, and revenue, college beats the NFL.

College Football Continues to Build Unprecedented Interest with Record Attendance and Stellar Ratings
Football TV Ratings Soar: the NFL’s Playbook for Success | Nielsen Wire
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/01/13/nfl-2010-tv-recap-most-viewed-season-ever/78564/
 
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If I were Jim Delaney, I would have flown out to Storrs, Louisville, Morgantown, Cincinnati, Lawrence, Manhattan, or even South Bend and given each AD a giant Christmas gift with a goofy oversize bow and an electric gizmo playing the Big Ten Network theme tune with a note reading "Do Not Open Until Christmas".
 
Xerxes said:
In Iowa and other states without NFL teams college football is more popular.

As a whole, across the nation, its the NFL and its not even close. All you have to do is take a look at the TV ratings. Only two college games are big rating draws across the nation, the Rose Bowl and the BCS championship game.

The New Years Day Bowls moved to Jan 2nd because they know they can't compete with the NFL even though its week 17 and there are only a few games that are meaningful. Basically the biggest college games of the year won't dare to compete on TV against several meaningless NFL games.

As for 90,000 fans not showing up to NFL stadiums, if you know anything about the NFL, you aware that they build their stadiums in the 60-80,000 capacity for a reason. No sellout means local TV blackout. No owner is going to risk that and the NFL wouldn't let them even if they wanted to.
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Read Billso's insightful posts above. NFL ratings versus NCAA ratings are an apples to oranges comparisons. In major markets with an NFL team, on Sunday there are a lot of times you get 3 games, as they often don't put games on competing networks during the home market game. When I lived in NY, a typical Sunday was Jets at 1, Giants at 4:30, Sunday night game at 8. Chicago's CBS affiliate will sometimes run a big game in competition with the Bears, but it is rare. So for NFL, you've got a very limited number of games and broader viewership, but college is the opposite, huge number of games (that cannibalize each other) with more narrowly defined viewership.

I also think the Northeastern market skews the ratings, as college football just isn't that big up there, but in the growing markets of the southeast and Texas, college football is huge and NFL is often second fiddle (well, I guess a lot of Texas is behind the Cowboys at least when they are decent).

I think there are plenty of regional NCAA matchups that in head to head competition with external variables controlled would crush NFL viewership and there are certainly college teams or regional groups of college teams that could easily go toe to toe against NFL games and hold their own. For instance, Michigan and Michigan State are bigger than the Lions. OSU is bigger than the Bungles and probably the Browns after the NFL siphoned all of the goodwill out of Cleveland with the move to Baltimore. The big Florida college teams are bigger than the Jags, Bucs and 'phins. Save for a recent resurgence, LSU would be far more popular than the Saints. And then, as noted above, in places like Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Alabama and other states that don't have NFL teams, NCAA is way bigger than NFL.
 
hawkfan340 said:
How will the games be broadcast? Do I need to buy Pac-12 Network or whatever they have?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Pac-12 Network is owned by Fox, much like our B1G Network. I'm sure they will have some type of reciprocity agreement whereby games shown on the Pac-12 Network will be mirrored on the B1G Network and vice versa.
 
okeefe4prez said:
Read Billso's insightful posts above. NFL ratings versus NCAA ratings are an apples to oranges comparisons. In major markets with an NFL team, on Sunday there are a lot of times you get 3 games, as they often don't put games on competing networks during the home market game. When I lived in NY, a typical Sunday was Jets at 1, Giants at 4:30, Sunday night game at 8. Chicago's CBS affiliate will sometimes run a big game in competition with the Bears, but it is rare. So for NFL, you've got a very limited number of games and broader viewership, but college is the opposite, huge number of games (that cannibalize each other) with more narrowly defined viewership.

I also think the Northeastern market skews the ratings, as college football just isn't that big up there, but in the growing markets of the southeast and Texas, college football is huge and NFL is often second fiddle (well, I guess a lot of Texas is behind the Cowboys at least when they are decent).

I think there are plenty of regional NCAA matchups that in head to head competition with external variables controlled would crush NFL viewership and there are certainly college teams or regional groups of college teams that could easily go toe to toe against NFL games and hold their own. For instance, Michigan and Michigan State are bigger than the Lions. OSU is bigger than the Bungles and probably the Browns after the NFL siphoned all of the goodwill out of Cleveland with the move to Baltimore. The big Florida college teams are bigger than the Jags, Bucs and 'phins. Save for a recent resurgence, LSU would be far more popular than the Saints. And then, as noted above, in places like Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Alabama and other states that don't have NFL teams, NCAA is way bigger than NFL.
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Very insightful. Particularly the highlighted comments. But you would think that a sport that is has more overall fans would top the NFL in ratings more often and not be afraid to go head to head.

In 2010, 6/10 playoff games (and the SB) outdrew the BCS championship game.

And as I posted above. The biggest day of college games, Jan 1 Bowls (including NCAA's #2 draw the Rose Bowl), moved to Jan 2nd in order to not go head to head with an NFL weekend that only has about 4 meaningful games.

For a sport that has more fans, those two things don't make a lot of sense. You didn't see the NFL moving their games to Saturday.
 
Xerxes said:
Very insightful. Particularly the highlighted comments. But you would think that a sport that is has more overall fans would top the NFL in ratings more often and not be afraid to go head to head.

In 2010, 6/10 playoff games (and the SB) outdrew the BCS championship game.

And as I posted above. The biggest day of college games, Jan 1 Bowls (including NCAA's #2 draw the Rose Bowl), moved to Jan 2nd in order to not go head to head with an NFL weekend that only has about 4 meaningful games.

For a sport that has more fans, those two things don't make a lot of sense. You didn't see the NFL moving their games to Saturday.
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College bowl games have almost never been played on Sundays. Here is an interesting Rose Bowl factoid:

The Tournament of Roses has never staged its parade or game when Jan. 1 falls on a Sunday. That decision dates to a 1893 "never on Sunday" parade edict that had to do with not wanting to frighten horses tethered outside local churches.
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I guess they were scared of NFL competition in 1893. By the way, NFL does move their games to Saturday when the college season is over - if their product is so superior, shouldn't they just go ahead and play more of their games on Saturdays to juice up beer sales? If the Lions and Bengals played on the Saturday after Thanksgiving, do you think it would be a more attractive draw than the OSU-UM game?

The NFL playoffs and the NCAA title game are apples to oranges comparisons. The NCAA title game is generally held on a weeknight and there aren't standing decades old traditional parties that folks have been attending. In addition, the Super Bowl is a momentous occasion, as it is the last game of the season. More wives are allegedly beaten on Super Bowl Sunday than any other day of the year as well. The marketing push that the NFL puts into promoting it is also ridiculous, as that is the crown jewel in broadcast television and they need to promote the hell out of it to make sure they can keep charging billions for their content. This year, the BCS is going to be on ESPN, which will also somewhat suppress ratings.

College has more fans, is more accessible, and in my opinion, is a better product. The NFL has gone to great lengths to make certain its content doesn't cannibalize itself and the Big Ten has taken the exact opposite approach to ensure that the random Iowa fan sitting in hostile territory can still view the content they want to. To do this with NFL games, you need a dish package.
 
Xerxes said:
The New Years Day Bowls moved to Jan 2nd because they know they can't compete with the NFL even though its week 17 and there are only a few games that are meaningful. Basically the biggest college games of the year won't dare to compete on TV against several meaningless NFL games.
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A very ignorant statement made by someone who has no idea about what he is talking about. It is a tradition not to have bowl games on Sunday. This tradition started long before the NFL began playing into January.

Prior to expanding to a 14 game season in 1961, the NFL championship game was always played prior to Jan. 1. For example, the Packers-Eagles championship game was played Dec. 26, 1960. However, all the New Year's Day bowl games were played on Monday, January 2, 1961. Likewise, the 1955 NFL championship game between the Browns & Rams was played on Dec. 26th. The Cotton, Orange, Rose & Sugar were all played on Monday the 2nd.

Notice anything else? The NFL championship games were played on Monday.
 
ColumbusHawk said:
A very ignorant statement made by someone who has no idea about what he is talking about. It is a tradition not to have bowl games on Sunday. This tradition started long before the NFL began playing into January.

Prior to expanding to a 14 game season in 1961, the NFL championship game was always played prior to Jan. 1. For example, the Packers-Eagles championship game was played Dec. 26, 1960. However, all the New Year's Day bowl games were played on Monday, January 2, 1961. Likewise, the 1955 NFL championship game between the Browns & Rams was played on Dec. 26th. The Cotton, Orange, Rose & Sugar were all played on Monday the 2nd.

Notice anything else? The NFL championship games were played on Monday.
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Thanks for the classy comment. Back in the 1960s when Sundays were observed more traditionally and the NFL had yet to gain serious popularity, I'm sure you're absolutely correct. It sounds like the NFL championship games observed Sundays as well.

From a quick check of recent years:
2010 Little Ceasers
2009 Music City & New Orleans
2008 New Orleans & Independence
2007 Hawaii & Independence

All played on Sundays.

If bowl games wanted to take place on Sundays its obvious they would as some already are.
 
okeefe4prez said:
College bowl games have almost never been played on Sundays. Here is an interesting Rose Bowl factoid:



I guess they were scared of NFL competition in 1893. By the way, NFL does move their games to Saturday when the college season is over - if their product is so superior, shouldn't they just go ahead and play more of their games on Saturdays to juice up beer sales? If the Lions and Bengals played on the Saturday after Thanksgiving, do you think it would be a more attractive draw than the OSU-UM game?

The NFL playoffs and the NCAA title game are apples to oranges comparisons. The NCAA title game is generally held on a weeknight and there aren't standing decades old traditional parties that folks have been attending. In addition, the Super Bowl is a momentous occasion, as it is the last game of the season. More wives are allegedly beaten on Super Bowl Sunday than any other day of the year as well. The marketing push that the NFL puts into promoting it is also ridiculous, as that is the crown jewel in broadcast television and they need to promote the hell out of it to make sure they can keep charging billions for their content. This year, the BCS is going to be on ESPN, which will also somewhat suppress ratings.

College has more fans, is more accessible, and in my opinion, is a better product. The NFL has gone to great lengths to make certain its content doesn't cannibalize itself and the Big Ten has taken the exact opposite approach to ensure that the random Iowa fan sitting in hostile territory can still view the content they want to. To do this with NFL games, you need a dish package.
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Of coarse it has more fans. There are 88 more teams that span almost every state.

Reduce the top tier of college football down to 32 teams and the NFL would dwarf college football.

And I think your point about accessibility of BTN vs NFL sunday ticket actually proves the opposite. People are more than willing to spend hundreds of dollars to watch 17 weeks of NFL football only available on Directv. I know people have also switched over from other cable carriers to get the BTN but nationally I'm sure the numbers aren't even remotely close.
 
We should all be thanking Big Jim for taking those luxurious spa vacation and cruise getaways in the Bahamas that the BCS Bowl CEO's force him to endure.
 
jim is doing a great thing for the b1g. anyone that thinks a playoff system can bring in more money for college football doesnt understand the money from bowl games goes to that school and conference. in a playoff system if the b1g gets 1 team in and they lose in the 1st round there is no more money coming in. the teams that win are the ones making loads of money. in the bowl system 70 teams (i believe 35 games correct me if wrong here) each are making money for themselves and conferences. only 12 teams make the nfl playoffs and 11 games. tell me how 11 games and 12 teams makes more money than 35 games and 70 teams with sponsorships and travel accommadations for the cities, etc. someone said it earlier that a playoff only helps the elite of elite.

we are in the top 20 most profitable programs because of delany, btn, and bowl games.
 
Foval21 said:
jim is doing a great thing for the b1g. anyone that thinks a playoff system can bring in more money for college football doesnt understand the money from bowl games goes to that school and conference. in a playoff system if the b1g gets 1 team in and they lose in the 1st round there is no more money coming in. the teams that win are the ones making loads of money. in the bowl system 70 teams (i believe 35 games correct me if wrong here) each are making money for themselves and conferences. only 12 teams make the nfl playoffs and 11 games. tell me how 11 games and 12 teams makes more money than 35 games and 70 teams with sponsorships and travel accommadations for the cities, etc. someone said it earlier that a playoff only helps the elite of elite.

we are in the top 20 most profitable programs because of delany, btn, and bowl games.
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You make a great point regarding the BTN which everyone is happy with in Iowa. It makes a lot of money for all B10 programs and Delany deserves a ton of credit for it.

But I'm not sure schools make much from the bowls. It costs a lot of money to send an entire team to a bowl and stay for a week. Here is an article from USA Today from 5 years ago.

$17M BCS payouts sound great, but ... - USATODAY.com

Basically it says each team in the B10 earned about 2 million after all expenses were paid.

You made a point about a playoff only benefitting the elite teams which is correct. A playoff payout would benefit the participating teams which more than likely would be the "blue bloods" on a regular basis and the rich would get richer.

But wouldn't that help the sport too? It would force athletic programs to be better and not settle for 6 & 7 win seasons.

It would force all teams to put winning about just making money from sellouts & donations from loyal fans (like Hawkeye fans). Wouldn't that be a good thing for the overall product of the sport?
 
Xerxes said:
You make a great point regarding the BTN which everyone is happy with in Iowa. It makes a lot of money for all B10 programs and Delany deserves a ton of credit for it.

But I'm not sure schools make much from the bowls. It costs a lot of money to send an entire team to a bowl and stay for a week. Here is an article from USA Today from 5 years ago.

$17M BCS payouts sound great, but ... - USATODAY.com

Basically it says each team in the B10 earned about 2 million after all expenses were paid.

You made a point about a playoff only benefitting the elite teams which is correct. A playoff payout would benefit the participating teams which more than likely would be the "blue bloods" on a regular basis and the rich would get richer.

But wouldn't that help the sport too? It would force athletic programs to be better and not settle for 6 & 7 win seasons.

It would force all teams to put winning about just making money from sellouts & donations from loyal fans (like Hawkeye fans). Wouldn't that be a good thing for the overall product of the sport?
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How is a playoff going to force all teams to put winning first? What is going to change about how teams recruit or practice or how much they want to win with the implementation of a play off?

If anything, I think a playoff would just lead to a much greater divide between the haves and have nots in college football, and unfortunately I think Iowa would end up on the wrong side of that.
 
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