Off-Topic — Aaron Hernandez Netflix documentary

DaHawk56 said:
That may be difficult because there is not a test to determine if someone has CTE. Because CTE is a relatively new area of exploration for researchers and physicians, formal clinical guidelines for diagnosing and managing CTE do not yet exist. A definitive diagnosis can only be made through an autopsy after death.
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It's in the works. There is active research to identify a tracer that will "light up" certain proteins felt to be associated with CTE. It probably will be some type of PET scan, and may have the added benefit of diagnosing Alzheimer's depending upon which proteins uptake the tracer.

The question really is where the line is drawn between evidence of the protein and the clinical diagnosis. My guess is that it will be a process, wherein a neurologist will combine the imaging with other neuropsych testing to ultimately get some type of score and/or grading system.

As I mentioned above, the most intriguing aspect is how the diagnosis will impact legal culpability. That could get real interesting.

Along similar lines, several years ago two women in Great Britain got off for murder using "menstrual psychosis" as a defense.
 
Fryowa said:
I have read a few places that there are genetic markers that show people who are more susceptible, and that's one of the things they are focusing on. The debate at the time was whether it would be fair for the NFL (or others) to take a blood test of say, an incoming rookie, and tell that guy, "Sorry, you can't play because you show a high vulnerability to CTE."

I'm sure that research is a ways off in the future, but as advanced as medicine is in 2020 I have to think that it wouldn't be long before they either have a definitive test for it or can establish someone's predisposition.
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Yeah, could happen, especially in an age where the financial investment is so high.

What's interesting is whether those traits are also what makes that person a great prospect in the first place. That's where the potential selection bias comes into play.
 
Fryowa said:
I have read a few places that there are genetic markers that show people who are more susceptible, and that's one of the things they are focusing on. The debate at the time was whether it would be fair for the NFL (or others) to take a blood test of say, an incoming rookie, and tell that guy, "Sorry, you can't play because you show a high vulnerability to CTE."

I'm sure that research is a ways off in the future, but as advanced as medicine is in 2020 I have to think that it wouldn't be long before they either have a definitive test for it or can establish someone's predisposition.
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anger is an impulse. right and wrong are learned. having a valid mental illness that does not allow you to be able to determine right vs wrong is one thing. otherwise, it's on each individual to do what is right instead of what is wrong. from grade school through the pros, the "good athletes" are treated like they cannot do any wrong. guess what? that's nurture and that teaches "i can't do anything wrong, or, even if i do, i won't get into trouble." couple that attitude with not learning to control anger and you've got a horrible tragedy waiting to happen. when science can tell us, without question they can pinpoint this trait or that trait in each human being, predisposition doesn't matter to me. i had problems controlling my temper before i was in grade school. my dad worked with me and made me see it was wrong and taught me how to manage it. so, a kid in my situation but doesn't have that parent willing or able to help must depend on the extra curricular activities coaches/supervisors to step in. but, doing nothing and saying "so-and-so" was predisposed and doing nothing is easier, i suppose.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
anger is an impulse. right and wrong are learned.
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That's a way too generalized statement.

What society considers wrong is learned. Some people genuinely don't see the same things as most others do as wrong. I didn't need my parents or a grade school teacher or society to tell me that grabbing a pencil and stabbing someone with it in daycare because they knocked my milk over was wrong. As toddlers we become aware of what pain is, and for reasons outside the debate of this thread we are generally born with a sense of altruism. Most toddlers cry and yell (or hold it in) when they're upset, not inflict pain on someone else. A mix of altruism and fear keeps us from doing that. To infinitely varying degrees we all interpret right and wrong, and we each have a different level of impulse control. There's no black and white, and there are too many external factors to nail it down to be as simple as right and wrong are always learned. CTE has shown to be one of those factors.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
anger is an impulse. right and wrong are learned. having a valid mental illness that does not allow you to be able to determine right vs wrong is one thing. otherwise, it's on each individual to do what is right instead of what is wrong. from grade school through the pros, the "good athletes" are treated like they cannot do any wrong. guess what? that's nurture and that teaches "i can't do anything wrong, or, even if i do, i won't get into trouble." couple that attitude with not learning to control anger and you've got a horrible tragedy waiting to happen. when science can tell us, without question they can pinpoint this trait or that trait in each human being, predisposition doesn't matter to me. i had problems controlling my temper before i was in grade school. my dad worked with me and made me see it was wrong and taught me how to manage it. so, a kid in my situation but doesn't have that parent willing or able to help must depend on the extra curricular activities coaches/supervisors to step in. but, doing nothing and saying "so-and-so" was predisposed and doing nothing is easier, i suppose.
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Sidebar, you seem to have a decent grasp of grammar, but holy F dude...use capital letters. It kinda blows my mind that you'll go to the trouble of using apostrophes, quotation marks, and (a whole bunch of) commas, but you can't be bothered to start your sentences with a capital letter.

And this isn't grammar Nazism, either...it genuinely makes your stuff hard to read. Do everyone a favor and hit that shift key.
 
DaHawk56 said:
That may be difficult because there is not a test to determine if someone has CTE. Because CTE is a relatively new area of exploration for researchers and physicians, formal clinical guidelines for diagnosing and managing CTE do not yet exist. A definitive diagnosis can only be made through an autopsy after death.
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Wouldn’t MRI’s be used as a diagnostic tool?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
The thing is Aaron Hernandez did not grow up in poverty he grew up in an affluent area in Connecticut and had a financially stable family. His father was revered as a former star athlete. He really wasn’t born into a gangster lifestyle he just kind of chose to associate with those types of people much later on. As one of the folks in the documentary put it, he was a wannabe gangster.
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Hernandez was bad news from the moment he got to Gainesville.
 
It’s a wild story. I had not heard any rumors about him being gay. His dad was a tough guy and bully, but also a local small town hero so he looked up to him. He seems like a wannabe, but also wasn’t ever afraid to strike out if he felt someone was testing him. So much weed, which someone who is paranoid and suffers from CTE might not mix well with. Not sure, haven’t done enough research about weed and CTE. Seems to me any discipline he got from people who he respected or feared he kinda ran away from. But he really lived 2 lives. Football Aaron and off the field Aaron.
 
Recovery from concussions has already been determined by genetics. Some people recover better genetically.
 
EstronHawkKing said:
I remember former Patriot Wes Welker once said when Hernandez was new to their team, he was trying to figure out how to run a projector to watch video one day. Hernandez couldn't figure out how to run it and asked Wes for some help. Wes said he jokingly replied "figure it out yourself rookie." Wes then said Hernandez gave him this look like he wanted to kill him. Wes said he felt very uncomfortable and walked away. Wes said Hernandez had a very evil look in his eyes during that moment and that it spooked him.
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Some cultures and families view public humiliation differently. Gang culture would be one. Eastern Europe... You just dont make people look bad.
 
Fryowa said:
Here's my take on Hernandez...

Some people are born more predisposed to violence and are born more, say, sociopathic. I don't think anyone would argue that. There are kids out there who are probably too soft-hearted and considerate of others, and there are those who don't seem to have any altruistic characteristics and end up cutting kittens' heads off. Like anything in the natural world there's a spectrum.

I think it's fairly obvious that based on people's experiences with Hernandez even before football he was way off to one end. Then add growing up poor, gang experience, lots off money, and a whole lot of CTE and you get a guy who murders people, has zero conscience about it, and is under the delusion that he'll get away with it.

Were hundreds of sub-concussive impacts to the head and probably numerous concussions what pushed him over the edge as far as impulse control? I don't know. It would appear to me that there's a high likelihood of that. Jovan Belcher, Chris Benoit, Aaron Hernandez...all the same story in most ways. But regardless of the cause, there's always a choice if you decide that you can't deal with the world anymore. I'm not an advocate of suicide by any means, but Junior Seau and Dave Duerson decided that they couldn't cope anymore and made a more honorable decision than the three formerly mentioned players. There's a choice. I feel bad for Junior Seau, Duerson, Tyler Sash...They couldn't outrun their demons but they didn't take anyone else over the edge with them. I don't feel bad for Hernandez and Lawrence Phillips.
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The subculture you described could also be fetal alcohol consumption causing bad impulse control and no help with it.
 
Fryowa said:
Here's my take on Hernandez...

Some people are born more predisposed to violence and are born more, say, sociopathic. I don't think anyone would argue that. There are kids out there who are probably too soft-hearted and considerate of others, and there are those who don't seem to have any altruistic characteristics and end up cutting kittens' heads off. Like anything in the natural world there's a spectrum.

I think it's fairly obvious that based on people's experiences with Hernandez even before football he was way off to one end. Then add growing up poor, gang experience, lots off money, and a whole lot of CTE and you get a guy who murders people, has zero conscience about it, and is under the delusion that he'll get away with it.

Were hundreds of sub-concussive impacts to the head and probably numerous concussions what pushed him over the edge as far as impulse control? I don't know. It would appear to me that there's a high likelihood of that. Jovan Belcher, Chris Benoit, Aaron Hernandez...all the same story in most ways. But regardless of the cause, there's always a choice if you decide that you can't deal with the world anymore. I'm not an advocate of suicide by any means, but Junior Seau and Dave Duerson decided that they couldn't cope anymore and made a more honorable decision than the three formerly mentioned players. There's a choice. I feel bad for Junior Seau, Duerson, Tyler Sash...They couldn't outrun their demons but they didn't take anyone else over the edge with them. I don't feel bad for Hernandez and Lawrence Phillips.
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Suicide generally is not honorable. Its trying to stop pain. Committing violence to someone else could be the same motive. Being socially out of touch with reality is different.
 
I never buy the environment made them bad defense. You make your choices. And there has to be that little voice that tells you right and wrong. In the end he was just another punk that didn't grow up.
 
HawkeyeDenis said:
I never buy the environment made them bad defense. You make your choices. And there has to be that little voice that tells you right and wrong. In the end he was just another punk that didn't grow up.
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For survival you learn. Ptsd is terrible. Brain injury causes a lot. I can get you hooked upt volunteer at an East St Louis project to experience that life If you want. Its eye opening.
 
HawkGold said:
For survival you learn. Ptsd is terrible. Brain injury causes a lot. I can get you hooked upt volunteer at an East St Louis project to experience that life If you want. Its eye opening.
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I can match my childhood trauma's with just about anyone. I didn't end up in prison. Neither did any of my siblings. My father and most of my uncles were war vets. Not the little skirmishes we have now, WW2. Somewhere along to line these people make a decision to do these things. We all have had those points where we make a decision that changes the course of our life.
 
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