Notre Dame will be joining the B10, Book it.

[DuffMan]

Duffman, I know you're trying to make some unbelievable prediction that you can go back on and say "see, I told ya" IF it happens but for you to think Notre Dame football will be obscure without a conference is laughable at best.

If you want to label my prediction as "unbelievable" go right ahead, it doesn't change the fact it's going to happen.

This isn't your daddys Notre Dame. Society moves so much faster now than it did 20 years ago. Ask Nebraska how fast you can go from national power to also ran. That's hardly the only example. Again there are lots of reasons this would happen.

1) They aren't winning
2) The numbers of actively praciticing Catholocism is on the decline reducing the number of people "born into" thier fanbase".
3) They face difficulties recruiting high level players due to thier academic standards.
4) They face the possiblity of not having a nationwide TV deal.
5) They may get left out of the next BCS/Playoff agreement.

Numbers 1-3 are fact, they have already occured or are occuring right now. If 4 and 5 happen ND football is DEAD as a national brand. They are no more relevent than the other independants (the Army and Naval academies) and it will happen in less than 5 years.

 

[tm3308]

You really think Notre Dame would be obscure without a conference?

Absolutely. At some point, tradition isn't enough. Minnesota was once a powerhouse in football, too. They don't live off of that tradition anymore because it's not a viable option, due to their mediocre performance for at least the last 15 years (I'm just 19, and I don't feel like digging up the numbers for just how long Minnesota has been mediocre). Notre Dame is quickly heading for that, IMO. They haven't done jack since Holtz left. Kelly may be able to turn things around, but that's yet to be seen.

Navy and Army were the best of college football back in the day. Army-Navy used to mean something. Now it's just a gimmick, practically. Notre Dame has to start winning again, and winning against quality opponents (like against the Big Ten) to stay relevant as an independent. If Delany cuts them off of playing BT teams, ND is screwed.

 

[Not4cy]

If you want to label my prediction as "unbelievable" go right ahead, it doesn't change the fact it's going to happen.

This isn't your daddys Notre Dame. Society moves so much faster now than it did 20 years ago. Ask Nebraska how fast you can go from national power to also ran. That's hardly the only example. Again there are lots of reasons this would happen.

1) They aren't winning
2) The numbers of actively praciticing Catholocism is on the decline reducing the number of people "born into" thier fanbase".
3) They face difficulties recruiting high level players due to thier academic standards.
4) They face the possiblity of not having a nationwide TV deal.
5) They may get left out of the next BCS/Playoff agreement.

Numbers 1-3 are fact, they have already occured or are occuring right now. If 4 and 5 happen ND football is dead as a national brand. They are no more relevent than the other independants (the Army and Naval academies) and it will happen in less than 5 years.

#3 is not fact. If you believe that, then I guess you can say the numbers actively practicing any religion are on the decline today.

Catholic Charities is by far one of the biggest Charity donations in the world so that would suggest that the numbers are still HUGE. Also, the Catholic religion has way, way more people than any religion in the US.

 

[BA96MA99]

Let Notre Dame wither and die.

 

[rdubbs]

If you want to label my prediction as "unbelievable" go right ahead, it doesn't change the fact it's going to happen.

This isn't your daddys Notre Dame. Society moves so much faster now than it did 20 years ago. Ask Nebraska how fast you can go from national power to also ran. That's hardly the only example. Again there are lots of reasons this would happen.

1) They aren't winning
2) The numbers of actively praciticing Catholocism is on the decline reducing the number of people "born into" thier fanbase".
3) They face difficulties recruiting high level players due to thier academic standards.
4) They face the possiblity of not having a nationwide TV deal.
5) They may get left out of the next BCS/Playoff agreement.

Numbers 1-3 are fact, they have already occured or are occuring right now. If 4 and 5 happen ND football is DEAD as a national brand. They are no more relevent than the other independants (the Army and Naval academies) and it will happen in less than 5 years.

I will label it as unbelievable because ANYTIME anyone jumps on a website and says that "insert stupid remark" is gonna happen "BANK IT" it ends up being a crock of steaming **** and this smells the same way. Notre Dame didn't want the Big Ten when they had a chance before and they don't want the Big Ten now.

 

[DuffMan]

#3 is not fact. If you believe that, then I guess you can say the numbers actively practicing any religion are on the decline today.

Catholic Charities is by far one of the biggest Charity donations in the world so that would suggest that the numbers are still HUGE. Also, the Catholic religion has way, way more people than any religion in the US.

I assume you meant #2.

I'm not going to argue that Catholicism is a dominant religion in the US. What I'm saying is thier numbers have been consistently falling over the last decade. I've seen estimates that roughly 400,000 people leave the Catholic faith each year. The numbers of "unchurched" families rises each year. There is no debate that the Catholic church as a whole is not as large or as strong as it was 30, or even 15 years ago. The discussion as to why is for another forum but the fact that it's true isn't really debatable.

 

[JHHawk]

At some point, ND will have faded enough to not even interest the Big Ten.
Not there yet,but if the Big Ten expands,and members stop playing ND, they will be stuck playing the academies, and a hodge -podge of bottom feeder teams desperate for a payday and USC...

Compare that with ND playing Navy,USC, Stanford and 9 Big Ten schools.

 

[DuffMan]

I will label it as unbelievable because ANYTIME anyone jumps on a website and says that "insert stupid remark" is gonna happen "BANK IT" it ends up being a crock of steaming **** and this smells the same way. Notre Dame didn't want the Big Ten when they had a chance before and they don't want the Big Ten now.

When did I say they want to join the B10? Want has nothing to do with it. They are going to have to chose between joining or going the way of Army and Navy.

My point is they are going to the smart thing and join a conference. I could be wrong about that I guess, they might decide to be stupid.

 

[rdubbs]

When did I say they want to join the B10? Want has nothing to do with it. They are going to have to chose between joining or going the way of Army and Navy.

My point is they are going to the smart thing and join a conference. I could be wrong about that I guess, they might decide to be stupid.

Please read my post again, I never stated you "wanted" them to join. I said your remarks that they are going to join "bank it" is false.

 

[Not4cy]

I assume you meant #2.

I'm not going to argue that Catholicism is a dominant religion in the US. What I'm saying is thier numbers have been consistently falling over the last decade. I've seen estimates that roughly 400,000 people leave the Catholic faith each year. The numbers of "unchurched" families rises each year. There is no debate that the Catholic church as a whole is not as large or as strong as it was 30, or even 15 years ago. The discussion as to why is for another forum but the fact that it's true isn't really debatable.

Yeh, I meant #2. My bad.

I guess you could argue that religion in general has been declining in this country for several years, at least people that practice it on an active basis. People might not practice being a Catholic as much, but I really, really doubt the #'s are down 400,000 people per year that consider themselves still a Catholic. I would like to see a link that shows proof of your #'s.

 

[DuffMan]

Yeh, I meant #2. My bad.

I guess you could argue that religion in general has been declining in this country for several years, at least people that practice it on an active basis. People might not practice being a Catholic as much, but I really, really doubt the #'s are down 400,000 people per year that consider themselves still a Catholic. I would like to see a link that shows proof of your #'s.

Check this out, some pretty sobering stuff. And yes the number of people practicing ANY organized religion have dramatically fallen over the last several years. There are some exceptions but on a large scale organized religion on our county is on a massive decline.

An index of Catholicism's decline

Keep in mind this is just one article on a websight but it looks pretty legit to me.

 

[DuffMan]

When did I say they want to join the B10? Want has nothing to do with it. They are going to have to chose between joining or going the way of Army and Navy.

My point is they are going to the smart thing and join a conference. I could be wrong about that I guess, they might decide to be stupid.

Please read my post again, I never stated you "wanted" them to join. I said your remarks that they are going to join "bank it" is false.

I read it just fine. You said they didn't want to join before and they don't want to join now. I said want has nothing to do with it, they must join to remain relevent.

I'm not going to debate this with you any further. Clearly the statement "Notre Dame will be joining the B10, Book it" is my opinion. By expressing my opinion this way I am saying i feel very very very very stongly this will happen. If you want to dismiss my opinion simply because of the way I presented it fine but you might want to consider the evidence/facts I've considered when forming it. I can't help but notice you havent debated them at all.

 

[Not4cy]

Check this out, some pretty sobering stuff. And yes the number of people practicing ANY organized religion have dramatically fallen over the last several years. There are some exceptions but on a large scale organized religion on our county is on a massive decline.

An index of Catholicism's decline

Check out this link.

Go to Largest denominations/denominational families in U.S.

The percent increase was 11% from 1990-2001

Largest Religious Groups in the USA

 

[knighthawk13]

"Acutally between the BTN, ESPN and ABC the Big Ten made $242 million in tv revenue last year or $22 million per school. So while Indiana and NW got $22 million ND got their $9 million."

ND makes more than $9 million per year. That is just for football. It's still in their best interest to join the Big 10, however.

 

[Not4cy]

Check this out, some pretty sobering stuff. And yes the number of people practicing ANY organized religion have dramatically fallen over the last several years. There are some exceptions but on a large scale organized religion on our county is on a massive decline.

An index of Catholicism's decline

Keep in mind this is just one article on a websight but it looks pretty legit to me.

Here is a quote from your article:

Though the number of U.S. Catholics has risen by 20 million since 1965, Jones' statistics show that the power of Catholic belief and devotion to the Faith are not nearly what they were.

The number has risen 20 million!!!!!! Now, I would agree that devotion to the Faith is not nearly as great as what it was, but you can say that about society in general.

My argument is that the # of people that consider themselves Catholic has not declined.

 

[DuffMan]

"Acutally between the BTN, ESPN and ABC the Big Ten made $242 million in tv revenue last year or $22 million per school. So while Indiana and NW got $22 million ND got their $9 million."

ND makes more than $9 million per year. That is just for football. It's still in their best interest to join the Big 10, however.

I considered that, I just couldn't see basketball money from the BigEast adding much to the bottom line.

 

[DuffMan]

Here is a quote from your article:

Though the number of U.S. Catholics has risen by 20 million since 1965, Jones' statistics show that the power of Catholic belief and devotion to the Faith are not nearly what they were.

The number has risen 20 million!!!!!! Now, I would agree that devotion to the Faith is not nearly as great as what it was, but you can say that about society in general.

My argument is that the # of people that consider themselves Catholic has not declined.

It's worth noting that the US poulation has probably grown by close to 100 million in that time frame.. I wonder what the Catholic "market share" is compared to then. I also wonder how a big a factor Latino immigration have had as I know that is a dominant faith in thier culture.

There are some other telling stats in that article, like how 1 in 4 Catholics regularly attend mass versus 3 in 4 in 1958. Here is a link to an article that states a more recent decline in practicing Catholics.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=2115

Another discussion for another time though... Maybe it's a little more debatable than I thought.

 

[hawkeyescott]

"Acutally between the BTN, ESPN and ABC the Big Ten made $242 million in tv revenue last year or $22 million per school. So while Indiana and NW got $22 million ND got their $9 million."

ND makes more than $9 million per year. That is just for football. It's still in their best interest to join the Big 10, however.

And that is just football revenue for the Big Ten as well. Sure ND might get more from a basketball contract with the Big East than Big Ten schools do, but it isn't $13 million more.

 

[olivecourt]

Check this out, some pretty sobering stuff. And yes the number of people practicing ANY organized religion have dramatically fallen over the last several years. There are some exceptions but on a large scale organized religion on our county is on a massive decline.

An index of Catholicism's decline

Keep in mind this is just one article on a websight but it looks pretty legit to me.

hey duffman, i agree with your general argument, but i wouldn't get in the habit of posting links to worldnet daily. right now their second story (after an 'obama isn't eligible to be president' headline) is a prophecy about 2012. they are pretty vigorously anti-catholic and anti-semitic, in addition to being pretty much bat-crazy in general. and don't get me started on pat buchanan.

but yes, duffman, i think you are thrusting in the direction of the problem. the vise will tighten on notre dame as the big ten network grows and other conferences launch their own networks.

 

[hawkeyescott]

I considered that, I just couldn't see basketball money from the BigEast adding much to the bottom line.

As I stated earlier that number was just revenue the Big Ten made from football as well. I'm sure ND makes more money in basketball with the Big East then Big Ten schools do, but not $13 million more.