Not using your timeouts on defense - No Guts and No Brains

[uihawk82]

I have said this before but almost every other coach now would have immediately used their two timeouts yesterday after punting the ball to Indiana with 4:30 left in the game yesterday.

I was fuming while watching Indiana run the 40 second clock down to 1 second on two consecutive plays. Nearly a minute and 20 seconds of wasted time. Coaches for 10 or more years now have been using their timeouts on defense to save time for TWO MAIN reasons:

1. The opponent may help you out by running out of bounds, throwing an incomplete pass, to stop the clock for you and even if they get one first down they might turn it over and you have the extra 1:20 seconds of clock time to win the game.

And 2. if you do get the ball back with those extra 1:20 seconds left on the clock the offense can clock the ball to stop the clock, stop it with first downs, hurry up the offense (no laughter please), run out of bounds, thru an incomplete pass, and you still have the whole field available to you as you try to work the sideline so the defense guards the sideline, so throw it 20 yards over the middle, the clock stops, and you hurry to the line and clock it and you have 3 downs still left on that series of downs.


Taxpayer money doesnt pay KF and the coaches salaries which is why I dont bi#ch much at all about the 3.8 million salary.

But I will be very critical of someone making so much money who stands there and lets time run off the clock like that and who wont go for it on 4th and 2 feet.

 

[hawkfan340]

I think you're right. I'm on the use them first wagon. Obviously, it was moot for this game since we didn't get a stop until they'd gotten a couple 1st downs.

But for the reason you state, I think it's better to use them early. You never know when a TO might happen, a stupid run out of bounds, or an incomplete pass (this could happen if you have two rushes for no gain with time outs... may put pressure on the offensive team to get a 1st down and they may be more incline to pass the ball if there's still 3.5 minutes on the clock).

Just adds to the list of things Kirk manages poorly when it comes to in game strategy.

 

[MoseSchrute]

Taxpayer money doesnt pay KF and the coaches salaries which is why I dont bi#ch much at all about the 3.8 million salary.

It's just embarassing at this point.

 

[PCHawk]

I've never understood the "save timeouts for later" theory either. A timeout is going to save you the same amount of time whether you use them earlier or later. Just as well use them earlier cause a chance to use them later might never come.

 

[uihawk82]

I've never understood the "save timeouts for later" theory either. A timeout is going to save you the same amount of time whether you use them earlier or later. Just as well use them earlier cause a chance to use them later might never come.

Exactly, use them and let the other team make a mistake.

 

[kicker22]

I said in another thread that my biggest problem is electing to punt in the first place. I get that the field position wasn't ideal and there was still time left, but the fact is if we pick up the first down on 4th and inches we are still able to run the ball and dink and dunk down the field. Running and the short passing game is all we've got and rather than going for it we basically take the mentality that in the event our defense gets the ball back we can move the ball effectively in a two minute offense. We haven't been able to move the ball all year with intermediate and deeper passing routes this year, yet all of a sudden we're going to be able to do it with a game on the line...give me a break.

 

[HomerChampless]

Iowa's d hadn't stopped them since the 2nd quarter.

 

[smbhawk1]

KF has proven over and over he has no concept of game and clock management. He simply does not recognize these types of things, which is unacceptable for a head coach. Especially on making $4M/ year.

 

[uihawk82]

I said in another thread that my biggest problem is electing to punt in the first place. I get that the field position wasn't ideal and there was still time .

I totally agree with you. I think the risk-reward and the odds favored going for the 4th and 2 feet. I said that the game had played out to where we were not stopping them, that our defense was tired with no pass rush and they were passing the ball well.

And even if you go for the 4th down and get stuffed you can hold them to a field goal try (you have to hold them) then you get the ball back down 3 or 6 points.

The odds in punting were not good.

 

[tubahawk]

I totally agree with you. I think the risk-reward and the odds favored going for the 4th and 2 feet. I said that the game had played out to where we were not stopping them, that our defense was tired with no pass rush and they were passing the ball well.

And even if you go for the 4th down and get stuffed you can hold them to a field goal try (you have to hold them) then you get the ball back down 3 or 6 points.

The odds in punting were not good.

I would have liked to have seen us go for it, but I'm not sure the odds were necessarily in our favor. IU inside d-line owned Ferentz, Blythe and Walsh. There was little chance a QB sneak or RB dive was going to work.

Iowa would have had to run something off tackle, which in a 4th and inches situation (where IU would have the box heavily stacked) would have been tough to pull off.

 

[talkinhawks]

The announcers were talking about this last night on Sunday night football. One of them agreed that it is best to use them on defense because otherwise you have no control over the clock. At least on offense you can somewhat control the clock and the tempo. I agree 100% that you cannot sit by and let that much time run off the clock to try and save timeouts in that situation. When Ferentz decided to punt the ball he was putting faith in his defense to get the stop. If you are going to do that, you have to have faith they will hold for a 3 and out.

The way Iowa ran their 2 minute offense the week before it wouldn't have mattered if they had timeouts or not. Iowa took a fricking delay of game penalty in their hurry up. The offense is an utter mess and an embarrassment at this point in the season. I can understand confusion and mistakes a few weeks into the season with the new coach and scheme, but there is no excuse this late in the season. Especially with a 5th year qb and an offensive coordinator with 30 yrs of experience.

 

[dmackindm]

IMO this was just not good clock management.

 

[redhawk55]

Most coaches save Timeouts for the offense, but with you people KF gets ripped either way if he uses them, then has none to stop the clock to kick a last 2nd FG he gets ripped for using all his timeouts, and now he gets ripped for not using them when at the time he had just 2 left..
either he was screwed,, get ripped for not using them or get ripped for using them and not saving them for getting a last 2nd FG

 

[redhawk55]

its getting to the point where people just ***** about anything

 

[PCHawk]

Most coaches save Timeouts for the offense, but with you people KF gets ripped either way if he uses them, then has none to stop the clock to kick a last 2nd FG he gets ripped for using all his timeouts, and now he gets ripped for not using them when at the time he had just 2 left..
either he was screwed,, get ripped for not using them or get ripped for using them and not savingthem for getting a last 2nd FG

No coach ever saves timeouts for offense. If you don't use it on defense, the other team will run the play clock down to 1. If you don't have any on offense, you can easily snap the ball before the playclock says 1 (any team but us that is)

 

[dmackindm]

Most coaches save Timeouts for the offense, but with you people KF gets ripped either way if he uses them, then has none to stop the clock to kick a last 2nd FG he gets ripped for using all his timeouts, and now he gets ripped for not using them when at the time he had just 2 left..
either he was screwed,, get ripped for not using them or get ripped for using them and not saving them for getting a last 2nd FG

In most situations I would agree. Not in in this one.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

Kirk has never showed much brains about in game coaching... and seems quite smug when approached.

As far as gutless? Well it's not really gutless it's an OCD conservatism that borderlines on mental illness.

 

[uihawk82]

Most coaches save Timeouts for the offense, but with you people KF gets ripped either way if he uses them, then has none to stop the clock to kick a last 2nd FG he gets ripped for using all his timeouts, and now he gets ripped for not using them when at the time he had just 2 left..
either he was screwed,, get ripped for not using them or get ripped for using them and not saving them for getting a last 2nd FG

I disagree. I the last 15 years and especially the last 5 almost all pro coaches and most college coaches will use their timeouts on defense LATE in the game. Sure early in each half you want to save your timeouts and especially try to save one timeout to line up for a FG but KF did the same thing against Wisky in 2010 after the fake punt.

Stop the clock on defense is equal to 40 seconds and teams that know how to run a hurry up, spike the ball, run out of bounds, get first downs type offense can get 4-5 plays off in 40 seconds.

Take three timeouts and you have enough time for 10-15 plays on offense. Which is what we could have had at the end of that wisky game.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

Most coaches save Timeouts for the offense, but with you people KF gets ripped either way if he uses them, then has none to stop the clock to kick a last 2nd FG he gets ripped for using all his timeouts, and now he gets ripped for not using them when at the time he had just 2 left..
either he was screwed,, get ripped for not using them or get ripped for using them and not saving them for getting a last 2nd FG

That is total BS

Having watching 10000000 football games coaches always use them on Defense

Can stop the clock on offense without timeouts not defense.

 

[kicker22]

I would have liked to have seen us go for it, but I'm not sure the odds were necessarily in our favor. IU inside d-line owned Ferentz, Blythe and Walsh. There was little chance a QB sneak or RB dive was going to work.

Iowa would have had to run something off tackle, which in a 4th and inches situation (where IU would have the box heavily stacked) would have been tough to pull off.

I agree with this, but IMO the clock was the biggest factor. Anything requiring our offense to abandon the short and intermediate routes has been a failure this year. Our only chance of putting together a drive involved being able to run the ball and dink and dunk. 5 minutes of clock we could still run the ball to pick up yards. Even if we get the ball back with 2 minutes left I don't think that puts us in much of a position to do anything but attack down field. Once the running game and short passing game were no longer an option it was already a lost cause.