Not sure if anyone noticed this.

C

CAARHawk

Banned
Delaney firing a massive shot at the SEC, B12 and, G5.

Delany said a restructuring plan in college sports must be in place by next spring to create better balance educationally...;)

I hope the Commish really goes to bat on this one. It is the most important change needed in college sports. My suggestion would to random test freshman and sophomore players with respect to academics like they do for drugs.

That will bring the SEC back to the rest of the pack fast.
 
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And how is Delaney or a third party going to measure educational achievement. Universities and and colleges inflate grades.

I think this is really needed as there are probably more than a few but less than a lot of college football players who probably are not making the grade/maybe shouldnt qualify for student-athlete.

But hell all the professional educators in the states and in govt have not kept the US from having its educational rankings fall even farther to #31 in the world, really #31, that is sheet poor. And I blame that mostly on stupid parents, parents who shouldnt be parents, who should never have had kids.
 
uihawk82 said:
And how is Delaney or a third party going to measure educational achievement. Universities and and colleges inflate grades.

I think this is really needed as there are probably more than a few but less than a lot of college football players who probably are not making the grade/maybe shouldnt qualify for student-athlete.

But hell all the professional educators in the states and in govt have not kept the US from having its educational rankings fall even farther to #31 in the world, really #31, that is sheet poor. And I blame that mostly on stupid parents, parents who shouldnt be parents, who should never have had kids.
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That's such a BS comment. God forbid you place blame on our pathetic education system.
 
Our education system is a little bit of an apples to oranges thing when comparing to the systems of other countries.

That being said, you could improve the college football system just by addressing the general education requirements in colleges. Create one GE accrediting body for the major conferences and have them check the curriculum and assessment of the different courses. Also, have tests scheduled for certain times when investigators could drop in or pull a particular athlete to test independently.

There are lots of things in these areas that can be done.
 
MoseSchrute said:
No, it's not. Everything starts at home. Plenty of blame to go around on both ends.
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a couple years ago or so my daughter had a friend who was from India. This was the 7th grade. I spoke with her and asked her what she liked about living here compared to India. I had a predisposed idea as to what she would say, but i was totally unprepared for what she did say. She said she liked this country because (paraphrase) school was easy. her example was that the math they were doing in 7th grade she had covered already in 4th grade back in India.

She also said that on top of her regular schooling in public schools that her Dad put her in special math classes outside of school. (yeah, not remedial learning). how many parents do this for their kids? i think foreign parents really push their kids. obviously the schools do.

so you could say that it is both, the schools and the parents. but yeah, it all starts at home.
 
imported_ankle23 said:
a couple years ago or so my daughter had a friend who was from India. This was the 7th grade. I spoke with her and asked her what she liked about living here compared to India. I had a predisposed idea as to what she would say, but i was totally unprepared for what she did say. She said she liked this country because (paraphrase) school was easy. her example was that the math they were doing in 7th grade she had covered already in 4th grade back in India.

She also said that on top of her regular schooling in public schools that her Dad put her in special math classes outside of school. (yeah, not remedial learning). how many parents do this for their kids? i think foreign parents really push their kids. obviously the schools do.

so you could say that it is both, the schools and the parents. but yeah, it all starts at home.
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And society. God forbid we hold someone accountable. No child left behind has resulted in US children being left behind.
 
uihawk82 said:
But hell all the professional educators in the states and in govt have not kept the US from having its educational rankings fall even farther to #31 in the world, really #31, that is sheet poor. And I blame that mostly on stupid parents, parents who shouldnt be parents, who should never have had kids.
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CNBC recently ran segments on public education. A researcher removed the school districts from America's largest cities and the ranking went well north of #31. We have to be careful about these "international" comparisons. The cities and the country has large numbers of immigrants that live in poverty that other countries do not have and we try educate all. I'm certainly no progressive, but I'm not going to deny immigrant children an opportunity to attend school.

I think the graduation rate measure is the direction to go. If you are not making demonstrated progress towards a degree in a declared major your participation should be eliminated. I do have some reservation about some of the majors being offered, like the one in "Liberal Studies".
 
eyekwah said:
CNBC recently ran segments on public education. A researcher removed the school districts from America's largest cities and the ranking went well north of #31. We have to be careful about these "international" comparisons. The cities and the country has large numbers of immigrants that live in poverty that other countries do not have and we try educate all. I'm certainly no progressive, but I'm not going to deny immigrant children an opportunity to attend school.

I think the graduation rate measure is the direction to go. If you are not making demonstrated progress towards a degree in a declared major your participation should be eliminated. I do have some reservation about some of the majors being offered, like the one in "Liberal Studies".
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This is a good start. Student athletes are in school to first get a degree.

Yeah I had a few beers before my post last nite and I may have shotgunned my blame on the problem. But I have a Masters Degree in Education, I have taught middle and high school some years ago, I was a Training Director and manager for 8 years, and I have been an adjunct college teacher for 15 years.

I can't begin to tell you how poorly prepared students are at all levels. A lot of parents don't care or make their kids strive to improve. For every one parent who wants more work for their kid there are 9 parents who dont care. South Korean parents were recently quoted as saying they want more homework for kids.

The story above about the girl from India is apropos.
 
imported_ankle23 said:
a couple years ago or so my daughter had a friend who was from India. This was the 7th grade. I spoke with her and asked her what she liked about living here compared to India. I had a predisposed idea as to what she would say, but i was totally unprepared for what she did say. She said she liked this country because (paraphrase) school was easy. her example was that the math they were doing in 7th grade she had covered already in 4th grade back in India.

She also said that on top of her regular schooling in public schools that her Dad put her in special math classes outside of school. (yeah, not remedial learning). how many parents do this for their kids? i think foreign parents really push their kids. obviously the schools do.

so you could say that it is both, the schools and the parents. but yeah, it all starts at home.
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Was she from the slums of Mumbai? Oh wait, those kids don't get to go to school. Our kids from the Mississippi Delta do. There are parents in Manhattan paying for private instruction for their kids. There are unique aspects of our educational system that make it hard to compare to other countries. For instance I know one country that has a two track system and only reports on their college bound track.

The egalitarian nature of our country is not going to allow these types of systems to develop at the public level.

As far as the graduation rate thing goes, I know people who have college degrees from Southern schools who can't put a sentence together. It needs to go WAY beyond graduation rate.
 
We're talking about college here which is completely different from K-12. So lets avoid a political argument. As far as college athletes, these are grown men and women (in every single state 18=adult, I hate when people call football players kids) and they can take whatever classes and major they want. If they want to take easy classes to focus on sports in hopes of making the pros that is their choice, and I couldn't care less. The are given full access to the a secondary education and its up to them how they pursue it.
 
hawkinn3 said:
We're talking about college here which is completely different from K-12. So lets avoid a political argument. As far as college athletes, these are grown men and women (in every single state 18=adult, I hate when people call football players kids) and they can take whatever classes and major they want. If they want to take easy classes to focus on sports in hopes of making the pros that is their choice, and I couldn't care less. The are given full access to the a secondary education and its up to them how they pursue it.
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Sounds like Tavern Hawk thinking. I like that Delaney made a strong statement saying that he didn't want colleges to operate as a minor league for the pros. I agree. If they want to "make the pros" they should do what Delaney suggests

Maybe in football and basketball, it would work better if more kids had a chance to go directly into the professional ranks," Delany said. "If they're not comfortable and want to monetize, let the minor leagues flourish. Train at IMG, get agents to invest in your body, get agents to invest in your likeness and establish it on your own. But don't come here and say, 'We want to be paid $25,000 or $50,000.' Go to the D-League and get it, go to the NBA and get it, go to the NFL and get it."

Top colleges shouldn't have courses of study that are EASY, where someone can focus on sports. If you want to focus on sports, go to a training program. Seriously, I would rather watch a team of players that might be a little less talented athletically that were good students than a team full of athletes that pretend to be students. However, the only way to do this is if everyone is on board, or you get the SEC and Boise problem (Yes, Boise is a problem, the P12 calls them a JC for a reason.)
 
CAARHawk said:
Sounds like Tavern Hawk thinking. I like that Delaney made a strong statement saying that he didn't want colleges to operate as a minor league for the pros. I agree. If they want to "make the pros" they should do what Delaney suggests

Maybe in football and basketball, it would work better if more kids had a chance to go directly into the professional ranks," Delany said. "If they're not comfortable and want to monetize, let the minor leagues flourish. Train at IMG, get agents to invest in your body, get agents to invest in your likeness and establish it on your own. But don't come here and say, 'We want to be paid $25,000 or $50,000.' Go to the D-League and get it, go to the NBA and get it, go to the NFL and get it."

Top colleges shouldn't have courses of study that are EASY, where someone can focus on sports. If you want to focus on sports, go to a training program. Seriously, I would rather watch a team of players that might be a little less talented athletically that were good students than a team full of athletes that pretend to be students. However, the only way to do this is if everyone is on board, or you get the SEC and Boise problem (Yes, Boise is a problem, the P12 calls them a JC for a reason.)
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Every college has easy courses. I went to the University of Iowa and graduated from there (how's that for Tavern Hawk?) and yes, even the UofI has easy classes. Take a look at the registry for the all the electives, you can make things as easy or hard as you want. My question (which you didn't address) is how are you going to prevent these athletes from taking a less difficult course load? I'm NOT in favor of paying them but I'm also not in favor of making college more difficult for them, they should be able to take whatever they want just like every other student. If they wind up with a worthless degree, that's on them. Quit treating them like children.
 
CAARHawk said:
Delaney firing a massive shot at the SEC, B12 and, G5.

Delany said a restructuring plan in college sports must be in place by next spring to create better balance educationally...;)

I hope the Commish really goes to bat on this one. It is the most important change needed in college sports. My suggestion would to random test freshman and sophomore players with respect to academics like they do for drugs.

That will bring the SEC back to the rest of the pack fast.
Click to expand...



Does Delaney really think that the general academic superiority of the Big 10 schools really carries over to the football team? I think the Big 10, Big 12, and SEC have very similar issues related to academic level of their players. It seems that there is always an effort to stretch the academic qualifications as far as possible if the player is good enough. This is not just an SEC issue. And it is not a non-issue in the Big 10 right now.
 
CAARHawk said:
Was she from the slums of Mumbai? Oh wait, those kids don't get to go to school. Our kids from the Mississippi Delta do. There are parents in Manhattan paying for private instruction for their kids. There are unique aspects of our educational system that make it hard to compare to other countries. For instance I know one country that has a two track system and only reports on their college bound track.

The egalitarian nature of our country is not going to allow these types of systems to develop at the public level.

As far as the graduation rate thing goes, I know people who have college degrees from Southern schools who can't put a sentence together. It needs to go WAY beyond graduation rate.
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you are great at stating the obvious. you should pay the way for the world's poor, and that will solve it all.

no doubt getting a degree proves nothing. it's generally the people who don't have skills who need a degree - the smartest and brightest can succeed without - that is shown time and time again.
 
The SEC is much worse than the B10. Our Ed system is broke but I also agree with the point about parents. One thing that we do know is we spend way more per student and are still falling behind. In the town I live in I think the public school system spend 2 or 3 times what the private school spends and kids come out of that private school with a much better education. We do have all new buildings in the public system thow
 
eyekwah said:
CNBC recently ran segments on public education. A researcher removed the school districts from America's largest cities and the ranking went well north of #31. We have to be careful about these "international" comparisons. The cities and the country has large numbers of immigrants that live in poverty that other countries do not have and we try educate all. I'm certainly no progressive, but I'm not going to deny immigrant children an opportunity to attend school.

I think the graduation rate measure is the direction to go. If you are not making demonstrated progress towards a degree in a declared major your participation should be eliminated. I do have some reservation about some of the majors being offered, like the one in "Liberal Studies".
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Exactly. In many countries, kids are "weeded" out before they are 12 or 14. They may go on to such careers as baker's assistant, garbage collector, etc., but they are basically removed from the system.

"Liberal Studies" and "General Studies" are catch-alls for kids that either can't decide on a major, won't decide on a major, or don't know which graduate path they want to take :)
 
hawkinn3 said:
Every college has easy courses. I went to the University of Iowa and graduated from there (how's that for Tavern Hawk?) and yes, even the UofI has easy classes. Take a look at the registry for the all the electives, you can make things as easy or hard as you want. My question (which you didn't address) is how are you going to prevent these athletes from taking a less difficult course load? I'm NOT in favor of paying them but I'm also not in favor of making college more difficult for them, they should be able to take whatever they want just like every other student. If they wind up with a worthless degree, that's on them. Quit treating them like children.
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An easy course load and not really getting an education are 2 different things. I have taught at Iowa and in the south, and I have taught students with undergraduate degrees from Boise. At Iowa, if you can't put a sentence together, you can't make it through classes. That is why promising players actually fail out of school at Iowa. I have also taught students with undergraduate degrees from southern schools and from Boise who literally did not know basic things like subject/verb agreement.

This is why I suggest doing assessment at the general education level. Everyone doesn't have to be an engineer, but they should be able to write a decent essay or do college level math if they are going to be granted a college degree or be considered eligible to participate in college athletics. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.
 
Yes, a poke: if the B1G is turned into more of an 'egghead' conference, maybe Delaney's Huskers will be more competitive in football.... and basketball.
 
How about requiring the ADs to post samples of academic work done by their starting athletes? I know there are all sorts of privacy issues, but I think it would be very interesting to see what some of these guys are really doing in their classes (in the Big 10 and the SEC). There is probably a wide range on most teams, but the lower level is not going to be pretty. And it has been that way for 100 years in college sports.
 
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