No more rose bowl, no more fun of any kind

[okeefe4prez]

Just a reminder, this case is about revenue generated from images of players. This is not an action to compel the NCAA or Universities to start paying players for playing. It is related but a broader issue.

to clarify my earlier point, Title IX has nothing to do with athletes sharing revenue generated from photos of the athletes. Should the plantif prevail the athlete will get paid for licensing images of their likeness. The spoils will go to the victor(s)

And it makes me wonder.....If I were a high flying recruit .... would my decision factor in where I could cash in the best from my image. I think that's what Delaney is talking about.

Are they assuming that allowing players to receive payment for their image would then create a prescident for paying for play>

There is a theory in antitrust law called the Rule of Reason. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_reason

To me, it is abundantly clear that the NCAA's restrictions on players monetizing their likenesses fall squarely within this rule. First, the school needs the license to pass along to a broadcaster for a game because if each athlete does so on their own, network efficiencies are lost. Second, the moment that kids can monetize their images, agents and a whole slew of hangers on get involved. Third, if the kids can sell their images, we'll inevitably hear the sob story of some sick ball player selling his shoe rights for $100k when he turns 18 and signs up for college and how he lost tens of millions of dollars by doing so. He's got no salary, but he wants to monetize his image. He's gonna sell too low. Fourth, the NCAA tries to preserve at least a modicum of competitive balance and the moment Honest Earl's Used Car Lot in Columbus can start buying kids to park on OSU's roster, Iowa doesn't get even marginal (out of high school) guys like Ricky Stanzi or DJK. It can easily circumvent scholarship limits, probation, etc. It would absolutely destroy competitive balance.

The only argument the plaintiffs have is "it isn't fair." Doesn't matter. The NCAA may have a monopoly on the production of high quality sports events with 18-22 year olds, but it is doing absolutely nothing to restrain trade by prohibiting the formation of an ancillary league for these kids to play in where they would be free to be paid and sell their likeness.

 

[gohawkz]

If this were the case, then each school would have an average of maybe 3-4 sports teams? If that. Some schools wouldn't be able to offer any sports at all. Is that what you want?

In a fantasy world, your scenario works, but in the real world here in reality, your scenario doesn't work at all. It's just not feasible, brah.

I know I'm not here reading all the posts so is this some sort of inside joke? Dear God, please tell me you don't actually call people Brah???

 

[HawkeyeDenis]

Pac 12. Big 8, Big 10, ACC etc more than 25. It's about what's right. Arguing that the inequity between college's is a different argument. Arguing that college athletes need a better system is the discussion. The rules are ridicules for college athletes in todays market. Billions of dollars floating around and college athletes are tied to a scholarship when graduation is a secondary concern.

 

[HawkeyeDenis]

"this were the case, then each school would have an average of maybe 3-4 sports teams? If that. Some schools wouldn't be able to offer any sports at all. Is that what you want?

In a fantasy world, your scenario works, but in the real world here in reality, your scenario doesn't work at all. It's just not feasible, brah. "

It's about what's right. Coaches making millions, schools making millions. A multibillion dollar industry. Athletes need a better system. The poverty argument won't work with the amount of money floating around. Schools aren't established to field sports teams, they are for higher learning. If they can't afford to field a team maybe they need to get back to their core directive.
I love college athletics but this is what happens when the money grubbers get involved. They gouge the consumer for every penny they can and exploit every labor source to it's maximum. And for as little cost as they can get away with. You seriously think that all the changes that have been happening for the last 25 years are for the fan? Network contracts, league networks and so on. It won't be long before major sports are only available on pay per view. Then the only games we will get to see will be the let out schools. It's time for hypocrisy of college athletics to go away. Colleges are minor league farm teams.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

The idea of a Super Division featuring the 5 power conferences ...PAC10, "big"12, SEC, ACC, BIG TEN, is interesting.

But then you'd really have the "haves and have nots". Imagine the ugly battles for those final roster spots and scholarships + Payday. You think there's funny money and back room deals being thrown around now...

If this Super Division became reality, you'd have a bunch of schools just on the outside initiate an entirely new legal battle. Currently Notre Dame isn't in one of the power conferences for football...if they get in, that alone would open the flood gates to legal challenges. And how could you justify a weak program like Kansas over....for example...Boise St...just because they have legacy status with the big 12.

You think there are legal challenges now... just wait.

 

[theboat]

"this were the case, then each school would have an average of maybe 3-4 sports teams? If that. Some schools wouldn't be able to offer any sports at all. Is that what you want?

In a fantasy world, your scenario works, but in the real world here in reality, your scenario doesn't work at all. It's just not feasible, brah. "

It's about what's right. Coaches making millions, schools making millions. A multibillion dollar industry. Athletes need a better system. The poverty argument won't work with the amount of money floating around. Schools aren't established to field sports teams, they are for higher learning. If they can't afford to field a team maybe they need to get back to their core directive.
I love college athletics but this is what happens when the money grubbers get involved. They gouge the consumer for every penny they can and exploit every labor source to it's maximum. And for as little cost as they can get away with. You seriously think that all the changes that have been happening for the last 25 years are for the fan? Network contracts, league networks and so on. It won't be long before major sports are only available on pay per view. Then the only games we will get to see will be the let out schools. It's time for hypocrisy of college athletics to go away. Colleges are minor league farm teams.

So to you whats "right" is having a 25 team football league and probably a 15 team basketball league and having everyone else cancel sports altogether?

The walmart discussion from some is hilarious because it is the exact opposite of the intent. Do you think walmart cares if minimum wage is raised? It would completely eliminate their competition. Do you think OSU, Texas, Alabama, etc care about paying players? They would become more of a monopoly than ever before.

 

[eyekwah]

There is an assumption being made that the "MONEY" supporting college athletic programs will continue indefinitely. That assumption could be very faulty. Only a few select programs are able to operate in the black. Many programs rely on student fees to prop up the athletic budget. Many of the facilities used for sports would not be there except for the generosity of alumni. What happens if we are in an economic sports bubble and it pops?

 

[YWinston]

The only argument the plaintiffs have is "it isn't fair." Doesn't matter. The NCAA may have a monopoly on the production of high quality sports events with 18-22 year olds, but it is doing absolutely nothing to restrain trade by prohibiting the formation of an ancillary league for these kids to play in where they would be free to be paid and sell their likeness.

And boom goes the dynamite.

Like I have been saying, no one if forcing these kids to go to these colleges, and no one is forcing them to play anything. They know exactly what they're signing up for, and at any point, they can just quit.

Why don't they? If this "exploitation" is so bad, why not just leave? Oh, that's right, because once you quit, the gravy train stop rolling. All of a sudden, everything isn't free and you're not famous.

Of course, if you think you're getting a raw deal, you can quit school and go try to make it in the NBA D League, where the'll pay you, on average $19,000 a year (plus a $40 per Diem!!!) In fact, you could argue that 98% of college players earn more on their scholarships than their talents would fetch on the free market. But as Okeefe4prez said, this is Marxism in practice. Unless the Johnny Footballs, Jameis Winston's, and Steele Jantz' of the world go Galt, the Tanner Millers will continue to win.

 

[Motigerhawk]

Great thread.
I have been in favor of paying athletes, but the more I read and think, the less Im feeling its what is best.
I changed and thought letting players profit from their names and likenesses. But, then you will get Joe Alumni paying Joe QB $1.5 million for his autograph. So Im not sure if I like that idea either.

You want to solve the problem? Then the NBA and NFL need to step in and create a proper and functional minor league system. That would solve all the issues. Johnny Manziel doesnt have to go to college. he can be drafted and sent to the Browns minor league football team to cut his teeth. If he doesnt want to go that route, then he signs with Texas A&M and gets a scholly.
Baseball is the model to follow here.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Great thread.
I have been in favor of paying athletes, but the more I read and think, the less Im feeling its what is best.
I changed and thought letting players profit from their names and likenesses. But, then you will get Joe Alumni paying Joe QB $1.5 million for his autograph. So Im not sure if I like that idea either.

You want to solve the problem? Then the NBA and NFL need to step in and create a proper and functional minor league system. That would solve all the issues. Johnny Manziel doesnt have to go to college. he can be drafted and sent to the Browns minor league football team to cut his teeth. If he doesnt want to go that route, then he signs with Texas A&M and gets a scholly.
Baseball is the model to follow here.

Preach!

 

[okeefe4prez]

"this were the case, then each school would have an average of maybe 3-4 sports teams? If that. Some schools wouldn't be able to offer any sports at all. Is that what you want?

In a fantasy world, your scenario works, but in the real world here in reality, your scenario doesn't work at all. It's just not feasible, brah. "

It's about what's right. Coaches making millions, schools making millions. A multibillion dollar industry. Athletes need a better system. The poverty argument won't work with the amount of money floating around. Schools aren't established to field sports teams, they are for higher learning. If they can't afford to field a team maybe they need to get back to their core directive.
I love college athletics but this is what happens when the money grubbers get involved. They gouge the consumer for every penny they can and exploit every labor source to it's maximum. And for as little cost as they can get away with. You seriously think that all the changes that have been happening for the last 25 years are for the fan? Network contracts, league networks and so on. It won't be long before major sports are only available on pay per view. Then the only games we will get to see will be the let out schools. It's time for hypocrisy of college athletics to go away. Colleges are minor league farm teams.

I fear that you lack the ability to distinguish between revenue and profit. Yes, college sports is a multibillion dollar industry. So were the banks in 2008 as was the auto industry. None of that stopped enterprise failures of giant companies. I would be absolutely stunned if Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana and Rutgers were making any material "profit" off of athletics. That's almost half of the new Big Ten. Even with the shared TV revenues, only schools with football programs that can extract decent donations across a large ticket holder base can make any money, and you darn near need a 100k seat stadium and a grand tradition to make any material money, but even that isn't enough because Tennessee is way sideways financially after its stadium renovations. For every kid who contributes on the football field, there are 2 football players who don't but who cost the school money, plus then there are three females that the one kid on the field is subsidizing, too.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Great thread.
I have been in favor of paying athletes, but the more I read and think, the less Im feeling its what is best.
I changed and thought letting players profit from their names and likenesses. But, then you will get Joe Alumni paying Joe QB $1.5 million for his autograph. So Im not sure if I like that idea either.

You want to solve the problem? Then the NBA and NFL need to step in and create a proper and functional minor league system. That would solve all the issues. Johnny Manziel doesnt have to go to college. he can be drafted and sent to the Browns minor league football team to cut his teeth. If he doesnt want to go that route, then he signs with Texas A&M and gets a scholly.
Baseball is the model to follow here.

Amen, bruh. The problem is that there is no way any minor league football or basketball program would be viable and the owners know it. But that lack of a viable competitor isn't the NCAA's fault.

 

[YWinston]

Amen, bruh. The problem is that there is no way any minor league football or basketball program would be viable and the owners know it. But that lack of a viable competitor isn't the NCAA's fault.

Why would the NFL or NBA spend money to develop and market talent when the NCAA already does it for free? That would be like a guy with a harem full of models paying for a back alley squeezer.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Why would the NFL or NBA spend money to develop and market talent when the NCAA already does it for free? That would be like a guy with a harem full of models paying for a back alley squeezer.

Well, MLB pays to develop talent, but that is in large part because even if they relied on the collegiate system most guys still wouldn't be ready for the bigs upon graduation. The bigger antitrust issue here is the NBA's and NFL's requirements for guys to be a set number of years removed from school to be draft-eligible, but the federal courts have already signed off on that practice.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

Five pages and no answer. Give them a stipend, nothing that makes them a young ***** millionaire, just a little bit to help, maybe 2500 semester, in addition to room and board, you know, to take the fly hunnies to poncheros, some ink to up their street cred,
You know, a little change in the pocket. Something to keep them from having to start their own city boyz business. Give everyone the same amount, done. Let me know if there are any other really important issues needing solved.

 

[YWinston]

Five pages and no answer. Give them a stipend, nothing that makes them a young ***** millionaire, just a little bit to help, maybe 2500 semester, in addition to room and board, you know, to take the fly hunnies to poncheros, some ink to up their street cred,
You know, a little change in the pocket. Something to keep them from having to start their own city boyz business. Give everyone the same amount, done. Let me know if there are any other really important issues needing solved.

How's that going to do anything but make the problem worse? Yeah, they're happy they have a little loose change, but how soon until a superstar, Steele Jantz-type player gets resentful that he's making as much as the wiman's crew backup coxswain?

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

Ha ha, Steele jantz, likey. Man I don't know I'm half trolling. Not a huge issue for me but if say tough, that's the stipend. If you want more, get it under the table like everyone else in the SEZ$

 

[MiniMoeHawk]

The players will have to pay taxes on the money they would receive...unlike now when they stumble upon an envelope full of cash.

 

[ICHawk24]

Now way more people go to college than before so the degree is just kind of meh..

The income difference between college graduates and non-graduates has never been greater.

 

[MiniMoeHawk]

The income difference between college graduates and non-graduates has never been greater.

$1.2 million