Nit or NCAA or Bust

[LinnMarHawkeye]

Looking at next years team, and the future, if lick can not get to 18 wins and a post season birth he has to be gone. With an older lineup with Cole as a senior, Gatens and Fuller as a junior the "were young" excuse no longer works. Plus the recruiting class with Brust is a decent one, they should be more athletic and have more depth, if we can not get to 8 big ten wins, his time is up.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I tend to agree. We will likely be starting a majority of upper-classmen next year. We still won't have a lot of experienced depth, but the starting 5 should be pretty well broken in by next year and ready to go.

We need to get to around 17-18 wins and approach .500 in the league, at least. If we can't do that and still are floundering around 13-15 wins, then I don't think it will ever happen while Lickliter is our coach. The only exception might be if there is just a litany of injuries to key players.

I'm not writing off next season just yet, though. Next year is the tell-all year, IMO.

 

[LinnMarHawkeye]

Your exactly right on the tell-all year. If four years plus some pretty good players and hopefully more from are big men is not enough to make it to the ncaa or even be a bubble team than their will be no year for a long time. That being said I hope that next year is entertaining and we all will be rooting for a purpose, but for home games we HAVE to fill the place much better than we did this year. tOSU was a pretty good showing

 

[olivecourt]

i'm completely comfortable with this. we need to be at .500 or better next year or we should look at a buyout. no excuses. however, that means big donors are going to have to open their wallets to make it happen.

maybe i'm insane, because i actually do expect them to get to .500 and the NIT next year.

 

[HawkeyeRyno]

Sorry but the "we are young" excuse will still fly next season too, especially amongst Lick supporters. I'm neither a supporter or hater but we are going to hear "we are young" flung around again next season especially with more transfers. Remember we are going to be playing four true freshmen and three sophomores, still more underclassmen than upperclassmen. I get the sense this is the moto for Lickliter.

I believe a post season berth next season is a must but I fail to see a NIT and no way an NCAA invite. A CIT (the fourth post season tourney) invite could be an option. This was introduced last season and is for teams with losing records so I could see us in this. This team probably gets 15 wins or so. I can see a 15-18 record next season. I'm sure this would be satisfactory for many.

Remember, Davis was let go because he couldn't take us to "the next level." So Alford is brought in to to take us to "the next level" and in fact failed to even come close to Davis' level. Now all we want Lick to do is take us to the level we were when Alford left??? This is irony at it's finest!!

 

[HawkeyeShane]

Don't set the line on number of wins. Post season play on the other hand, that's cool, they should make the NIT at least with the upgrade in talent and depth. Just don't say that "Iowa should be 18 and whatever and make the NIT or he should be gone" when they could make the NIT with 17 wins but nope, gotta fire him...didn't hit 18!?!? I don't agree with that.

 

[LinnMarHawkeye]

Not insane at all, I hate to bring Alford into this because I did not care for him as a coach. But most years with him we would usually be middle to top of the big ten always in a run late to make the ncaa tournament, by next year if we go in to the big ten tournament with nothing to play for, its bye bye lick or bye bye barta

 

[1977Hawkeye]

i'm completely comfortable with this. we need to be at .500 or better next year or we should look at a buyout. no excuses. however, that means big donors are going to have to open their wallets to make it happen.

maybe i'm insane, because i actually do expect them to get to .500 and the NIT next year.

I think that's a reasonable expectation, olive. The NIT is a little tougher to get to than it used to be it seems. Typically now it seems you need to get closer to 20 wins, while a winning record almost used to guarantee you an invite. But a winning record isn't too much to ask. Lick went 15-17 in year 2. That's only a 1 game swing to get to .500.

Personally, I will be looking closely at the conference record. Another 5-13 or 6-12 year won't cut it for me. I'm thinking more like 8-10 should be the minimum goal.

 

[McHawkin]

Yeah, I can't settle for any less than 18 wins next season. But, what I can't settle for and what Gary Barta can may be two different things. If T-O dubble D can make the 16 win mark next season he still may keep his J-O-B.

 

[HawkeyeShane]

Sorry but the "we are young" excuse will still fly next season too, especially amongst Lick supporters. I'm neither a supporter or hater but we are going to hear "we are young" flung around again next season especially with more transfers. I get the sense this is the moto for Lickliter. I believe a post season berth next season is a must but I fail to see a NIT and no way an NCAA invite. A CIT (the fourth post season tourney) invite could be an option. This was introduced last season and is for teams with losing records so I could see us in this. This team probably gets 15 wins or so. I can see a 15-18 record next season. I'm sure this would be satisfactory for many.

Remember, Davis was let go because he couldn't take us to "the next level." So Alford is brought in to to take us to "the next level" and in fact failed to even come close to Davis' level. Now all we want Lick to do is take us to the level we were when Alford left??? This is irony at it's greatest!!

You're wrong about the young team "excuse"...especially if none the starters transfer. They'll have 6 guys who logged ALOT of minutes coming back...only on a player by player, situation by situation basis for the new guys will that be tolerable and with the experienced guys in the program, the new guys' learning curve should be sped up quite a bit. Now, if you're right and people still try to go to "we're still young" they'll be wrong...and me, for thinking you're wrong...wait, WHAT? Ok, confused myself...timeout...

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Don't set the line on number of wins. Post season play on the other hand, that's cool, they should make the NIT at least with the upgrade in talent and depth. Just don't say that "Iowa should be 18 and whatever and make the NIT or he should be gone" when they could make the NIT with 17 wins but nope, gotta fire him...didn't hit 18!?!? I don't agree with that.

I'm not saying that Lick has to get X number of wins or fire him. But at some point you have to start looking at the record. He is getting paid to WIN games.

How much more can we possibly "improve" and still be hanging around the 5-6 conference win mark? We need a significant improvement next year, which should result in a noticeable improvement in our record. Wether it's 8-10, 9-9 or so, that's tough to say. But my point is this: If we don't see an obvious improvement, then we need to move on. And by obvious, I don't mean "We averaged 14 turnovers per game last year, and 12.5 this year". But OBVIOUS - as in we are more competetive against the top of the league, and actually beat a couple of ranked teams throughout the year. Not just beat bottom feeders and get blown out by PU and MSU.

But next year is the year where we have to start seeing some WINS, not a bunch of moral victories.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Sorry but the "we are young" excuse will still fly next season too, especially amongst Lick supporters. I'm neither a supporter or hater but we are going to hear "we are young" flung around again next season especially with more transfers. Remember we are going to be playing four true freshmen and three sophomores, still more underclassmen than upperclassmen. I get the sense this is the moto for Lickliter.

I believe a post season berth next season is a must but I fail to see a NIT and no way an NCAA invite. A CIT (the fourth post season tourney) invite could be an option. This was introduced last season and is for teams with losing records so I could see us in this. This team probably gets 15 wins or so. I can see a 15-18 record next season. I'm sure this would be satisfactory for many.

Remember, Davis was let go because he couldn't take us to "the next level." So Alford is brought in to to take us to "the next level" and in fact failed to even come close to Davis' level. Now all we want Lick to do is take us to the level we were when Alford left??? This is irony at it's finest!!

The only way we can still legitemately say "we are young" next year is if there are a bunch of transfers. In that case, then Lickliter will have proven for the 3rd straight year that he cannot keep players in the program, in which case, I still think we'd have to move on. This time if there are more transfers, it would likely be most of his own recruits bailing. You can't pin that on Alford anymore. Either way, the excuses will no longer fly. I said, a bunch of injuries may be the only legit excuse left for Lickliter's supporters to use.

 

[LinnMarHawkeye]

Another thing that will really help us is that we will have much more "big" rotation including cole, archie, brommer, cougil, freshman class, and even though Fuller is small he does play big. With the more experience and depth inside we should get more paint points which will cause the defense to collapse more when we throw it inside allowing are three point shooters to get better looks.

 

[HawkeyeShane]

I'm not saying that Lick has to get X number of wins or fire him. But at some point you have to start looking at the record. He is getting paid to WIN games.

How much more can we possibly "improve" and still be hanging around the 5-6 conference win mark? We need a significant improvement next year, which should result in a noticeable improvement in our record. Wether it's 8-10, 9-9 or so, that's tough to say. But my point is this: If we don't see an obvious improvement, then we need to move on. And by obvious, I don't mean "We averaged 14 turnovers per game last year, and 12.5 this year". But OBVIOUS - as in we are more competetive against the top of the league, and actually beat a couple of ranked teams throughout the year. Not just beat bottom feeders and get blown out by PU and MSU.

But next year is the year where we have to start seeing some WINS, not a bunch of moral victories.

I know 77...I'm just saying you can't set 2 bars...because one could get in the way of the other...like I said, I expect post-season play, period...I'm not going to set a number of wins because 17-14 and making the NIT isn't any different than 18-13 and making...the NIT. Win number 18 shouldn't trump making the NIT if you were going there already. Now, if 17 wins doesn't get you to the NIT, bye bye...but again, if you didn't make the NIT but DID get to 18 wins, do you still fire the guy? He got to the 18 bar, but the selection guys passed us over...now what?

 

[HawkeyeRyno]

You're wrong about the young team "excuse"...especially if none the starters transfer. They'll have 6 guys who logged ALOT of minutes coming back...only on a player by player, situation by situation basis for the new guys will that be tolerable and with the experienced guys in the program, the new guys' learning curve should be sped up quite a bit. Now, if you're right and people still try to go to "we're still young" they'll be wrong...and me, for thinking you're wrong...wait, WHAT? Ok, confused myself...timeout...

I'm not going use the "we are young" excuse especially not when our freshmen and sophomores are playing 35 minutes a game. Some "older" teams don't even have there upperclassmen put those kind of minutes in. I'm just saying you can guarantee people will still use that excuse next season. It's going to be an escapism excuse if the team struggle again. Because when this team struggles, it isn't the coach it is the "youth."

 

[LinnMarHawkeye]

The youth is not always a bad thing though. Young players tend to play with a lot of fire and energy, and heart. They have to prove something so they do all they can, and I think thats exactly what May, Cougill, and Payne are doing. Thats what this team needs for next year is an older player who can handle the ball and pressure that brings sparks. The exact player for that is Kaylon Williams, but lick wont sign him because he is to ignorant to do what the fans want.

 

[koolhandlick]

Doesn't the CIT tourney require schools to pay for the honor of being in their event? If that is the case Iowa would just be throwing more good money after bad.

 

[HawkeyeShane]

I'm not going use the "we are young" excuse especially not when our freshmen and sophomores are playing 35 minutes a game. Some "older" teams don't even have there upperclassmen put those kind of minutes in. I'm just saying you can guarantee people will still use that excuse next season. It's going to be an escapism excuse if the team struggle again. Because when this team struggles, it isn't the coach it is the "youth."

Oh I knew you weren't going to...I was just referencing..."them"..."the others" etc...I was just saying you were wrong that people would try to use it again...which I actually thought about and you're probably right, some will, even though it won't fly.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I know 77...I'm just saying you can't set 2 bars...because one could get in the way of the other...like I said, I expect post-season play, period...I'm not going to set a number of wins because 17-14 and making the NIT isn't any different than 18-13 and making...the NIT. Win number 18 shouldn't trump making the NIT if you were going there already. Now, if 17 wins doesn't get you to the NIT, bye bye...but again, if you didn't make the NIT but DID get to 18 wins, do you still fire the guy? He got to the 18 bar, but the selection guys passed us over...now what?

I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to whether you want to see post-season play, or a number of W's. To me, which you want isn't really the question. The question is this: If the team improves a lot, the team's record should take care of itself, and so should any post-season play, hopefully.

Some will point to the 2000 football team showing alot of improvement, but only going 3-9. That is true, but if you watched that season, you would remember that the team was still pretty lousy at the beginning of the year, but by November was a totally different team. They finished close to .500 in the Big Ten, and their losses were much more competetive. So despite the 3-9 record, I was optimistic about the football program by the end of the 2000 season.

I expect I'll have similiar feelings by the end of next basketball season if the team really truly does improve significantly. I don't have "that feeling" by the end of next season, I will personally feel it's time we think about making a change, but only time will tell.

 

[HawkeyeShane]

I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to whether you want to see post-season play, or a number of W's. To me, which you want isn't really the question. The question is this: If the team improves a lot, the team's record should take care of itself, and so should any post-season play, hopefully.

Some will point to the 2000 football team showing alot of improvement, but only going 3-9. That is true, but if you watched that season, you would remember that the team was still pretty lousy at the beginning of the year, but by November was a totally different team. They finished close to .500 in the Big Ten, and their losses were much more competetive. So despite the 3-9 record, I was optimistic about the football program by the end of the 2000 season.

I expect I'll have similiar feelings by the end of next basketball season if the team really truly does improve significantly. I don't have "that feeling" by the end of next season, I will personally feel it's time we think about making a change, but only time will tell.

I agree...I mean, if the Hawks have a decent pre-conference season, then stumble a bit out of the gates the first half of conference season but look to be getting better, then put it all together and finish strong and make a good run in the conference tourney...but wind up 16-14 or 17-13 with no post season...then what? It's just not as easy and cut and dry as we all want it to be...