MoseSchrute
Well-Known Member
And that is the season they turned on him!
Nice perspective from Longhorn fan on Greg Davis
- Thread starter HawkinGoferLand
- Start date
hogeye
Well-Known Member
Turned on who? What are you talking about?
ColoradoHAWKEYE
Well-Known Member
Wow, I wonder if we have a positive perspective like that on KOK? one team's treasure is another team's castoff.
HawkinGoferLand
Well-Known Member
I think high expectations coupled with a tenure of 7+ yrs make fans grow restless for change. Mr. Davis is a classic example. I can't believe how many people seriously want KF gone, although they are the minority, they are certainly loud. Greg Davis is maybe a casualty of restless, insatiable fans never being satisfied until every possession results in a TD and every game is a victory... 
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Using ICHawk's link of college defensive stats for 2008 in this thread, Iowa's 2010 defense would have ranked 1st against running teams with 4.25 points per game, ranked between 53rd and 54th against passing teams with an average of 24 points a game, and ranked between 92nd and 93rd with 31 points against Wisconsin.
This was the post I made in an earlier thread about KOK showing my research of Iowa's 2010 defense stats. It was easier to repost it than use a link because the thread is about 5 pages long... Here it is:
These 2010 defense statistics rating Iowa 7th in defense and 17th in scoring defense are, IMO, misleading statistics.
Here are the results of the 2010 season for Iowa:
*Iowa 37 Eastern Illinois 7 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 35 Iowa State 7 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
Arizona 34 Iowa 27 - bad showing by the Iowa defense on that last Arizona scoring drive (the big play was a passing play).
*Iowa 45 Ball State 0 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 24 Penn State 3 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
Iowa 38 Michigan 28 - Iowa held on to win after a big lead at half. The defense knocked out the starting QB for Michigan.
Wisconsin 31 Iowa 30 - IMO, terrible showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 37 Michigan St. 6 - great showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 18 Indiana 13 - wide open dropped pass in the endzone costs Indiana the win - mediocre showing by the pass defense. IMO, a good example of how the bend but don't break defense can be successful or unsuccessful in a blink of an eye and is successful or unsuccessful to no fault or achievement of the BBDB pass defense.
Northwestern 21 Iowa 17 - Bend but don't break pass defense bent and broke (as it always does against Northwestern).
*Ohio State 20 Iowa 17 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
Minnesota 27 Iowa 24 - Iowa couldn't stop Minnesota's running attack (quite disturbing since stopping the run is the Iowa defense's forte)
Iowa 27 Missouri 24 - defense couldn't stop Missouri's pass offense until the last drive. Iowa's defense wasn't good.
Iowa's defense gave up a total of 7 + 7 + 0 + 3 = 17 points in 4 games or 4.25 points per game to teams their defense should have dominated: E. Illinois, Iowa State, Ball State, and Penn State (strong running offense and weak passing offense).
Iowa's defense gave up a total of 34 + 28 + 13 + 21 + 24 = 120 points in 5 games or 24 points per game to teams with good passing offenses: Arizona (I acknowledge some of those points were not given up by the defense), Michigan (who passed exclusively in the second half), Indiana, Northwestern, and Missouri.
Wisconsin was a team with running power, superior athletic abilities, and passing abilitites who manhandled Iowa's defense scoring 31 points.
Iowa's defense manhandled Michigan State allowing only 7 points. The difference, IMO, between MSU and Wisconsin was the one dimentionality of MSU's offense, their running game.
Iowa's defense did a good job against tOSU. tOSU couldn't effectively pass. Iowa stopped their running game. Unfortunately, the athleticism of Iowa's defense was outmatched by the athleticism of tOSU.
Then there's that Minnesota game. Iowa couldn't stop the run. Was that because the field in Minnesota was icy? Iowa gave up 27 points.
To recap:
Iowa's defense averaged 4.25 points against teams with strictly running attacks and IMO, patsies.
Iowa's defense averaged 24 points against good passing teams.
Iowa's defense gave away 31 points to a good running, passing, and athletic team in Wisconsin.
Iowa's defense gave up 21 points to a strictly athletic team like tOSU.
Then there's that outlier game for Iowa's defense: the Minnesota game.
As you can see if you aren't yet bored, Iowa's defense is good against a running offense, is mediocre against a good passing offense and is awful against an offensive team with skills.
Using points per game, is Iowa's defense good? It depends what kind of offense it is trying to defend.
I don't expect to win over ideologues who love defense. Ideology is a problem on HN. I just want Iowa to win games.
This was the post I made in an earlier thread about KOK showing my research of Iowa's 2010 defense stats. It was easier to repost it than use a link because the thread is about 5 pages long... Here it is:
These 2010 defense statistics rating Iowa 7th in defense and 17th in scoring defense are, IMO, misleading statistics.
Here are the results of the 2010 season for Iowa:
*Iowa 37 Eastern Illinois 7 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 35 Iowa State 7 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
Arizona 34 Iowa 27 - bad showing by the Iowa defense on that last Arizona scoring drive (the big play was a passing play).
*Iowa 45 Ball State 0 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 24 Penn State 3 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
Iowa 38 Michigan 28 - Iowa held on to win after a big lead at half. The defense knocked out the starting QB for Michigan.
Wisconsin 31 Iowa 30 - IMO, terrible showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 37 Michigan St. 6 - great showing by the Iowa defense.
*Iowa 18 Indiana 13 - wide open dropped pass in the endzone costs Indiana the win - mediocre showing by the pass defense. IMO, a good example of how the bend but don't break defense can be successful or unsuccessful in a blink of an eye and is successful or unsuccessful to no fault or achievement of the BBDB pass defense.
Northwestern 21 Iowa 17 - Bend but don't break pass defense bent and broke (as it always does against Northwestern).
*Ohio State 20 Iowa 17 - good showing by the Iowa defense.
Minnesota 27 Iowa 24 - Iowa couldn't stop Minnesota's running attack (quite disturbing since stopping the run is the Iowa defense's forte)
Iowa 27 Missouri 24 - defense couldn't stop Missouri's pass offense until the last drive. Iowa's defense wasn't good.
Iowa's defense gave up a total of 7 + 7 + 0 + 3 = 17 points in 4 games or 4.25 points per game to teams their defense should have dominated: E. Illinois, Iowa State, Ball State, and Penn State (strong running offense and weak passing offense).
Iowa's defense gave up a total of 34 + 28 + 13 + 21 + 24 = 120 points in 5 games or 24 points per game to teams with good passing offenses: Arizona (I acknowledge some of those points were not given up by the defense), Michigan (who passed exclusively in the second half), Indiana, Northwestern, and Missouri.
Wisconsin was a team with running power, superior athletic abilities, and passing abilitites who manhandled Iowa's defense scoring 31 points.
Iowa's defense manhandled Michigan State allowing only 7 points. The difference, IMO, between MSU and Wisconsin was the one dimentionality of MSU's offense, their running game.
Iowa's defense did a good job against tOSU. tOSU couldn't effectively pass. Iowa stopped their running game. Unfortunately, the athleticism of Iowa's defense was outmatched by the athleticism of tOSU.
Then there's that Minnesota game. Iowa couldn't stop the run. Was that because the field in Minnesota was icy? Iowa gave up 27 points.
To recap:
Iowa's defense averaged 4.25 points against teams with strictly running attacks and IMO, patsies.
Iowa's defense averaged 24 points against good passing teams.
Iowa's defense gave away 31 points to a good running, passing, and athletic team in Wisconsin.
Iowa's defense gave up 21 points to a strictly athletic team like tOSU.
Then there's that outlier game for Iowa's defense: the Minnesota game.
As you can see if you aren't yet bored, Iowa's defense is good against a running offense, is mediocre against a good passing offense and is awful against an offensive team with skills.
Using points per game, is Iowa's defense good? It depends what kind of offense it is trying to defend.
I don't expect to win over ideologues who love defense. Ideology is a problem on HN. I just want Iowa to win games.
ICHawk24
Well-Known Member
LET ME POST THESE NUMBERS AGAIN WHERE I SEPARATE THE GOOD GAMES FROM THE BAD GAMES AND SAY ONLY THE BAD GAMES COUNT BECAUSE THEY FIT MY IDEOLOGY.
p.s. I posted 2010 numbers, not 2008.
p.p.s. MSU was 16th in the country in passer rating and 22nd in ypa, so I don't know why you keep claiming they couldn't pass.
Iowa has very good defenses. But they aren't infallible. And of course they allow more points to the better offenses.
p.s. I posted 2010 numbers, not 2008.
p.p.s. MSU was 16th in the country in passer rating and 22nd in ypa, so I don't know why you keep claiming they couldn't pass.
Iowa has very good defenses. But they aren't infallible. And of course they allow more points to the better offenses.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
You aren't taking into consideration that the Iowa offense, which struggled against better teams, and was better against the patsies. When the offense can't control the ball and the clock the defense is naturally going to allow more points.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
Your problem is you look at the score and place all of it on the defense. Let's look at the games you say were "bad":
1. Arizona - Special teams gave up a kick return for score and the offense threw a pick 6. Up until the final touchdown, the defense had given up 13 points and had scored 7 of their own. If you ask me, that's a pretty good game, on the road, for the defense.
2. Wisconsin - Until the final drive, the defense had given up 23 points to one of the highest scoring teams ever. In addition, they had intercepted a pass deep in Wisky territory only to see the offense stub their toe again and then miss a chip shot field goal. They then did their job on the next to last drive, only to see our special teams (and coaches) muck it up by giving up a fake punt.
3. Indiana - The wide open drop wasn't what almost cost us the game. It was our anemic offense scoring a measily 18 points against one of the worst defenses in the league. Our defense gave up 13 points on the road. More than enough to win the game.
4. Northwestern - Up until the final drive, the defense had only given up 14 points on the road. Should have been more than enough to win against a defense that was near the bottom in every defensive statistic. But once again, our offense couldn't stay on the field and convert a single 3rd down. The defense was on the field for something around 50 plays.
5. Minnesota - The entire team had basically given up at that point. If that game is for the Big Ten championship, you would have seen a much different result.
6. Missouri - Lots of yardage given up, but yards don't win games, points do. And that Missouri team put up a lot of points that year, but didn't against our defense. In fact, we lose if the defense doesn't record a pick 6. So not sure how that is a bad defensive showing.
Bottom line is that, while our defense let us down at the end of games, in every single ballgame they did what should have been enough to win if our special teams and offense could have had a semblence of a pulse. You're looking to the wrong unit for blame.
seepig
Well-Known Member
His career stats are already better than KOK's so I'm excited. Good perspective from this guy out of Texas. One thing is for certain...they booted GD and look how The Longhorns faired this year....they were one of the WORST teams in the Big 12 period and on offense especially.
seepig
Well-Known Member
Yeah potentially but if you look at those 5 year stats our KOK led offense was absolutely horrific for having Stanzi there and Shonn Greene and DJK and really good OL play.
So, what else should we be judging KOK's career on? Good luck to him in Miami and I hope he celebrates a long uneventful remainder of his coaching days there. But thank ya Jesus he's out of here.
Chickenlounge
Well-Known Member
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Hey Rico, you don't need to waste space quoting an entire huge post in your post... Just quote the pertinent points, OK?
Then there's this:
My post wasn't in response to Iowa's truly anemic offense, it was in reponse to 2 rhetorical comments from ideologues of Iowa's defense I see ad nausem on this football board:
(1)Iowa's defense was rated 17th in scoring
(2) Iowa's offense was rated 70th
Fact: the defensive scoring stat isn't pertinent when judging the effectiveness of Iowa's defense because Iowa's defense was good, mediocre, or bad depending on the offense it was trying to defend. Now, someone can try to say the nation's 2008 D scoring stats are generally different than the nation's 2010 D scoring stats and Iowa's defensive effectiveness was different in 2008 than 2010 but both statements would be false.
Fact: the offensive stat is created by Kirk Ferentz.
Ferentz is the one who wants conservative offense.
If Ferentz's conservative offense was more efficient, it might be lucky enough to climb into the 50 range.
Ferentz wants the defense to win ball games - NOT THE OFFENSE.
Just stop using those 2 bogus stats.. Those stats don't give Iowa a better chance of winning football games.
Then there's this:
My post wasn't in response to Iowa's truly anemic offense, it was in reponse to 2 rhetorical comments from ideologues of Iowa's defense I see ad nausem on this football board:
(1)Iowa's defense was rated 17th in scoring
(2) Iowa's offense was rated 70th
Fact: the defensive scoring stat isn't pertinent when judging the effectiveness of Iowa's defense because Iowa's defense was good, mediocre, or bad depending on the offense it was trying to defend. Now, someone can try to say the nation's 2008 D scoring stats are generally different than the nation's 2010 D scoring stats and Iowa's defensive effectiveness was different in 2008 than 2010 but both statements would be false.
Fact: the offensive stat is created by Kirk Ferentz.
Ferentz is the one who wants conservative offense.
If Ferentz's conservative offense was more efficient, it might be lucky enough to climb into the 50 range.
Ferentz wants the defense to win ball games - NOT THE OFFENSE.
Just stop using those 2 bogus stats.. Those stats don't give Iowa a better chance of winning football games.
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NewMexHawk
Well-Known Member
The problem with stats is that unless you set very strict limits, the stats can mean whatever you want them to mean...
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
I don't think there is a right or wrong unit to blame.
Both units had chances to seal victories in most of those games and both failed, not to mention special teams could have prevented Arizona and Wiconsin losses.
Definitely the most frustrating year in a long time.
