NCAA changes

revkev73

Well-Known Member
Here are three changes I think would be helpful for the competitiveness, health, and perhaps long term survival of the sport:

1) Similar to the NHL, enact a hard "Star-Cap" for teams so that teams and conferences can't load up on the best of recruits. There would be limitations on the number of #4 and #5 recruits for each team and conference. This would lead to a more competitive playing field for the huge number of teams that now, simply provide a schedule for the top programs to play against. Perhaps a "Conference Star Cap" also needs to be in place. Now, it is 6-7 programs, which most years, have a legitimate shot at a national title. This would decrease the desire for cheating and allow more opportunities of playing time for the top recruits, in addition to increasing competitiveness and most of all, fan interest, for the countless "no chance of winning" bottom feeders. This system would also place a bigger emphasis on top quality coaching, as the talent is more balanced.

2) Place limits on player weights for each position on the field. As players become even bigger and faster the contact is becoming even more dangerous for the players. Wrestlers do this, so could football players.

3) As I mentioned before, allow players who declare for the draft, to pull themselves out of consideration if they don't like how their status is playing out during the draft. This will protect players from inaccurate information they have received about their NFL potential. It would also add excitement to the draft, it seems.

Two cents...
 
Here are three changes I think would be helpful for the competitiveness, health, and perhaps long term survival of the sport:

1) Similar to the NHL, enact a hard "Star-Cap" for teams so that teams and conferences can't load up on the best of recruits. There would be limitations on the number of #4 and #5 recruits for each team and conference. This would lead to a more competitive playing field for the huge number of teams that now, simply provide a schedule for the top programs to play against. Perhaps a "Conference Star Cap" also needs to be in place. Now, it is 6-7 programs, which most years, have a legitimate shot at a national title. This would decrease the desire for cheating and allow more opportunities of playing time for the top recruits, in addition to increasing competitiveness and most of all, fan interest, for the countless "no chance of winning" bottom feeders. This system would also place a bigger emphasis on top quality coaching, as the talent is more balanced.

2) Place limits on player weights for each position on the field. As players become even bigger and faster the contact is becoming even more dangerous for the players. Wrestlers do this, so could football players.

3) As I mentioned before, allow players who declare for the draft, to pull themselves out of consideration if they don't like how their status is playing out during the draft. This will protect players from inaccurate information they have received about their NFL potential. It would also add excitement to the draft, it seems.

Two cents...

1. A Star Cap might work, but who would be the entity to assign stars? It probably wouldn't be just any rating service, I suppose. The NCAA would have to buy into a system of assigning stars. Also, since we presently have inter-divisional games, I assume all divisions would have to adhere to the decision.

2. Without being one-on-one, I'm not sure how a team would limit sizes. Guards need to be within 290-300 pound, or 300 pounds and up? A team can't play another, if there are no size comparisons? Not sure this is a reasonable issue.

3. As for declaring for the draft, do you mean that a player can pull themselves out during the draft if they fall below a round or two from their expected draft position? Or, if they don't get drafted at all, can they come back to play?

Just wondering.
 
Here are three changes I think would be helpful for the competitiveness, health, and perhaps long term survival of the sport:

1) Similar to the NHL, enact a hard "Star-Cap" for teams so that teams and conferences can't load up on the best of recruits. There would be limitations on the number of #4 and #5 recruits for each team and conference. This would lead to a more competitive playing field for the huge number of teams that now, simply provide a schedule for the top programs to play against. Perhaps a "Conference Star Cap" also needs to be in place. Now, it is 6-7 programs, which most years, have a legitimate shot at a national title. This would decrease the desire for cheating and allow more opportunities of playing time for the top recruits, in addition to increasing competitiveness and most of all, fan interest, for the countless "no chance of winning" bottom feeders. This system would also place a bigger emphasis on top quality coaching, as the talent is more balanced.

2) Place limits on player weights for each position on the field. As players become even bigger and faster the contact is becoming even more dangerous for the players. Wrestlers do this, so could football players.

3) As I mentioned before, allow players who declare for the draft, to pull themselves out of consideration if they don't like how their status is playing out during the draft. This will protect players from inaccurate information they have received about their NFL potential. It would also add excitement to the draft, it seems.

Two cents...

Good thoughts, and well articulated.

1) Feels pretty communistic, but hey, every pro sport essentially does this with salary cap (hard or soft), luxury tax, etc.. In one sense you could say it would unfairly disadvantage some athletes that want to go play for Saban, but can't because he has already filled his star quota, or who really want to major in "Major X" at Oklahoma, but he cannot accept a scholarship from there because they are already full. I think it is an interesting thought, but I don't necessarily go along with this.

@KCHawkeye 's question about who would assign stars is interesting. What would happen if you got in early with a bunch of 3-stars, they committ, and then they get elevated to 4-stars as seniors? Now you can't take them all. Again, tricky.

2) I am onboard with weight limits in theory, I just think the logistics of it would be difficult. I would say a hard 285 for all players (same as wrestling HWT), no positional weights. I don't think you are going to eliminate any of the violence associated with the game (won't help with CTE), because you will have a lot of jacked dudes moving really fast. But, not forcing lineman to try to gain their way up to 300+ will certainly benefit their long-term health (cardiovascular, metabolic, joint, and mental).

Now think about weighing in a whole team before a game: yikes. I suppose you weigh the whole team at the start of the season, and then as the season progresses you only need to re-weight the guys that were within shouting distance of 285. Do you weight day of the game, or night before?

Again tricky, but fewer barriers, and I actually agree there would be great player benefit.

3) I don't know about pulling out your name in the midst of the draft, that puts too much pressure on the student-athlete to make a decision in an already stress-filled moment. But they should be able to go through draft eval and withdraw within a month or so of the draft.

What if they get drafted and don't like their landing spot? Can they return, and then the team gets a compensatory draft pick? Return and the team retains their rights (not sure what the advantage is here for the student athlete)?

What about the guy that goes out early and is undrafted, can he come back? The NBA says yes as long as he hasn't signed with an agent, though I think the agent thing will be less of an issue with the direction the NCAA is going.

Good starting points for conversation.
 
1) I really don't like at all, because ultimately college sports are supposed to be for the benefit of the athlete. It would undoubtedly end up with the NCAA telling some kid that they aren't allowed to attend their dream school because the NCAA deems them as "too good".

2) I'm unsure of, because if anything, CFB is safer now with 300+ lb players than it was when the average lineman was 200 lbs.

Granted, this has more to do with advances in helmet and pad technology as well as increased awareness of strength training, athletic training, physical performance, and most importantly, brain injuries.

3) Agree with this one 100%. It gives players who were given poor advice or had a terribly unfortunate injury a second chance. It works with then NBA.

Probably wouldn't see it as often as basketball due to the completely different levels of physical development between the two sports, but it would a very good, pro-player rule.
 
1) I really don't like at all, because ultimately college sports are supposed to be for the benefit of the athlete. It would undoubtedly end up with the NCAA telling some kid that they aren't allowed to attend their dream school because the NCAA deems them as "too good".

2) I'm unsure of, because if anything, CFB is safer now with 300+ lb players than it was when the average lineman was 200 lbs.

Granted, this has more to do with advances in helmet and pad technology as well as increased awareness of strength training, athletic training, physical performance, and most importantly, brain injuries.

3) Agree with this one 100%. It gives players who were given poor advice or had a terribly unfortunate injury a second chance. It works with then NBA.

Probably wouldn't see it as often as basketball due to the completely different levels of physical development between the two sports, but it would a very good, pro-player rule.
I think one of the reasons it works for the NBA is because of the timing of the draft. I would imagine that the majority of the kids trying to get drafted by the NFL stop attending classes to focus on the combine, whereas I think the majority of the NBA draft activities happen after spring semester concludes.
 
you can't manage infinity. i don't see a whole lot wrong with competition. what i do see issues with is that the "playoffs" is still subjective. that is what hinders competition, in my opinion. either expand the playoff system so that there is no subjectivity to who qualifies, or dump it.
 
No. 3 is really unworkable. When would a guy be able to pull his name? No, I believe once the draft starts, you're in, for good or bad. NFL teams are making decisions based on who they think is left, and when they can get someone, based on who has been selected so far and how many teams ahead of them need a guy like the one they're thinking of taking, among other things. Some teams do it better than others. A guy pulls his name out, that's unfair to the NFL. Now, if a guy goes undrafted, it might work that he could come back, but that raises questions about his professional status - did he get some advance money from an agent, would he have to reimburse it, would he be let out of his agent agreement? It also raises questions whether the school would let him back. He's missed some, probably all, spring practices with the team. In the end, once a guy makes a decision to enter to the draft and he signs up with an agent, he's in. There's no guarantee. It's a calculated risk.

Once the roller coaster starts, you can't stop it and get off because you decide you don't like the drop.
 
1. A Star Cap might work, but who would be the entity to assign stars? It probably wouldn't be just any rating service, I suppose. The NCAA would have to buy into a system of assigning stars. Also, since we presently have inter-divisional games, I assume all divisions would have to adhere to the decision.

2. Without being one-on-one, I'm not sure how a team would limit sizes. Guards need to be within 290-300 pound, or 300 pounds and up? A team can't play another, if there are no size comparisons? Not sure this is a reasonable issue.

3. As for declaring for the draft, do you mean that a player can pull themselves out during the draft if they fall below a round or two from their expected draft position? Or, if they don't get drafted at all, can they come back to play?

Just wondering.
My thought is they could withdraw themselves from the draft, during the draft, if they see themselves falling more than was projected or what they anticipated. For example if Epenesa drifted to the end of the second round, "I am out of here, headed back to Iowa."

Details would have to be worked out on weights and positions, but it is done at all levels of wrestling. Wirfs, IIRC, had to drop 35 lbs to make weight as a senior to win a state wrestling title.

The system needs to be tweaked to make it similar to a "hard cap" so that there is more of a level playing field. Who determines stars would be subjective, like lots of things are. Who goes to the playoffs, who doesn't Who wins a Heisman, who doesn't, who gets into college, who doesn't.

My overall concern is the vast number of the best players go to just a small number of schools. The remaining schools are not really in the conversation of a title.

Two cents...
 
No. 3 is really unworkable. When would a guy be able to pull his name? No, I believe once the draft starts, you're in, for good or bad. NFL teams are making decisions based on who they think is left, and when they can get someone, based on who has been selected so far and how many teams ahead of them need a guy like the one they're thinking of taking, among other things. Some teams do it better than others. A guy pulls his name out, that's unfair to the NFL. Now, if a guy goes undrafted, it might work that he could come back, but that raises questions about his professional status - did he get some advance money from an agent, would he have to reimburse it, would he be let out of his agent agreement? It also raises questions whether the school would let him back. He's missed some, probably all, spring practices with the team. In the end, once a guy makes a decision to enter to the draft and he signs up with an agent, he's in. There's no guarantee. It's a calculated risk.

Once the roller coaster starts, you can't stop it and get off because you decide you don't like the drop.
It certainly would add intrigue and keep the teams on pins and needles every selection. Will he stay in now that he has fallen this far? Maybe we take him now! I think it is an advantage to the players themselves who often are used to make money for universities and the NCAA machine. "I am walking," gives a sense of empowerment and personal choice in an often rigged system.
 
I don't agree with putting a cap on how many 5 or 4 star players a team can have. You can't punish good coaches and recruiters even though there are clearly inherent advantages at a handful of programs.

But just ask Michigan, Tennessee, Nebraska, USC, & Miami. It takes a lot more than a big name on the jersey to keep a program in the national conversation. LSU was not an SEC power for 7 seasons from 2012-2018. It took a great coach to get that incredible talent to perform (and an all-time great QB transfer).

If we're talking about leveling the playing field, I think a more practical idea would be putting a limit on the budgets for all P5 football programs. Like the NFL salary cap.

One limit for coaching salaries, another for facilities, another for recruiting. Whether the money is coming from boosters or the university there should be a cap there. And actually having the NCAA hire compliance staff working at each university to make sure schools are following those limits.
 
Good thoughts, and well articulated.

1) Feels pretty communistic, but hey, every pro sport essentially does this with salary cap (hard or soft), luxury tax, etc.. In one sense you could say it would unfairly disadvantage some athletes that want to go play for Saban, but can't because he has already filled his star quota, or who really want to major in "Major X" at Oklahoma, but he cannot accept a scholarship from there because they are already full. I think it is an interesting thought, but I don't necessarily go along with this.

@KCHawkeye 's question about who would assign stars is interesting. What would happen if you got in early with a bunch of 3-stars, they committ, and then they get elevated to 4-stars as seniors? Now you can't take them all. Again, tricky.

2) I am onboard with weight limits in theory, I just think the logistics of it would be difficult. I would say a hard 285 for all players (same as wrestling HWT), no positional weights. I don't think you are going to eliminate any of the violence associated with the game (won't help with CTE), because you will have a lot of jacked dudes moving really fast. But, not forcing lineman to try to gain their way up to 300+ will certainly benefit their long-term health (cardiovascular, metabolic, joint, and mental).

Now think about weighing in a whole team before a game: yikes. I suppose you weigh the whole team at the start of the season, and then as the season progresses you only need to re-weight the guys that were within shouting distance of 285. Do you weight day of the game, or night before?

Again tricky, but fewer barriers, and I actually agree there would be great player benefit.

3) I don't know about pulling out your name in the midst of the draft, that puts too much pressure on the student-athlete to make a decision in an already stress-filled moment. But they should be able to go through draft eval and withdraw within a month or so of the draft.

What if they get drafted and don't like their landing spot? Can they return, and then the team gets a compensatory draft pick? Return and the team retains their rights (not sure what the advantage is here for the student athlete)?

What about the guy that goes out early and is undrafted, can he come back? The NBA says yes as long as he hasn't signed with an agent, though I think the agent thing will be less of an issue with the direction the NCAA is going.

Good starting points for conversation.
Good points. Yes, a discussion. Perhaps it is trying to find a solution to a problem that most colleges, coaches, or players care about. Do the 80 bowl games serve the purpose of going out a winner?

I think much softer helmets would help, inside and outside, but would look like bubble/head astronauts.

Weighing in prior to a game wouldn't be that difficult. If you don't "make weight" you don't play. Next man in. Wrestling does it all the time.

I think the draft is fluid enough and the players are smart enough to figure out when to pull the plug in the moment.

NFL scouts and GMs do evaluation all the time. They would need to bring their "A Game" to the draft if players pull out. It would be exciting.

Two cents...
 
I don't agree with putting a cap on how many 5 or 4 star players a team can have. You can't punish good coaches and recruiters even though there are clearly inherent advantages at a handful of programs.

But just ask Michigan, Tennessee, Nebraska, USC, & Miami. It takes a lot more than a big name on the jersey to keep a program in the national conversation. LSU was not an SEC power for 7 seasons from 2012-2018. It took a great coach to get that incredible talent to perform (and an all-time great QB transfer).

If we're talking about leveling the playing field, I think a more practical idea would be putting a limit on the budgets for all P5 football programs. Like the NFL salary cap.

One limit for coaching salaries, another for facilities, another for recruiting. Whether the money is coming from boosters or the university there should be a cap there. And actually having the NCAA hire compliance staff working at each university to make sure schools are following those limits.
$$$ caps on those levels makes sense. Now it is an arms race to spend more money...with Covid19 and the next one when will it collapse?
 
I don't see the point in the weight restrictions. You will still have different weights for different positions on the field at the same time. On one play a 300 pound guard may be blocking a 280 pond d-tackle, the next play he may be blocking a 230 pound lb. On other plays, he may get downfield and hit a 190 pound d-back, so I'm not sure what the weight limits accomplish.
 
Some good ideas but with #1 this Star idea gets in the way of a student attending the school they want to maybe not only to play football but also to study and for the experience at that campus.

#2 Offensive linemen, many of them look to be un-naturally heavy by 30-40 pounds. Maybe some body mass index or one of those fat pinching measurement devices for health reasons is a better way to do it rather that just weight but I am for them not eating 10,000 calories a day and using a lot of protein powder etc to have an un-natural amount of extra weight. AJEpenesa did not look fat, a whole bunch of offensive linemen look fat, big and muscular but still fat. but if their body mass index and fat pinch tests are fine then they are more natural.

# 3 I would say as long as an underclassmen has not signed a contract with an agent they can back out of the draft at any time up to their name being called or maybe a day before the draft since teams are expecting them to be in the list. Let them contact agents to find out which one they might want to hire but an agent isnt needed until they are drafted.
 
I like the idea of a weight limit but I would just make it 275 pounds for all players. After that you are just putting unnatural freaks on the field.

I do like the argument that if they can have weight limits in wrestling, why not football?
 
I like the idea of a weight limit but I would just make it 275 pounds for all players. After that you are just putting unnatural freaks on the field.

I do like the argument that if they can have weight limits in wrestling, why not football?
A universal weight maximum would perhaps be the best "fix" for the issue. Overly huge players running around the field at breakneck speed is dangerous. And it is not healthy, long term, for the players to put 360 lbs or more on their hearts. Limiting weights across the board in college and the NFL would be a imposed restriction for the good of the players. It is SOP for wrestling and in high school no one complained about weigh-ins, it was just the way it was to wrestle. It would be a healthy move for the players on many levels: safer on the field and better health long-term. And if it isn't for the good of the players, well, it probably shouldn't be.

I do like the "in the flow of the draft" removal of consideration for players. It also is for the "good of the player" realizing, but not too late under this format, that he needs more seasoning and won't be drafted where he was projected to be.

I still do like the "star salary cap" to keep the sport from drifting off into the league of the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Cubs, with the Pirates, Twins, Brewers, et. al. filling out the schedule to provide practice for the teams that "have." Of course, the challenge is this, in MLB team owners can make money without being competitive because of TV revenue and revenue sharing and if you are in it for the money, well, why overspend? Perhaps the same is true for college football. How much do we need to spend if we make tons of money off of these amateur athletes anyhow? Our jobs are well paid and protected. I tire of Alabama/Clemson/Ohio State and a handful of others. I seldom watch it. It isn't really a national title, in reality. For long term survival and interest, perhaps the "cap" needs to be considered, or something.

With this Covid19 about, things aren't going to be the same in terms of money pouring in to these sports. Perhaps more competitiveness with much less money spent on training facilities, arenas, fields will be forced upon the team owners and institutions as a "new reality" begins to be forced upon the system. More fairly balanced, competitive teams might become forced upon the system.

And given the reality that those who attend high level college FB and BB and MLB and NFL, NHL, etc. are made up of people who have much more available cash to spend, (corporations and clients even more) how many high rollers will want to take themselves, their families, and their clients to an event where people/strangers are rubbing next to each other, bumping into each other, screaming with each other? Especially since virus transmitting people can share the virus for days/weeks on end without a single symptom? I would guess that the vast majority of fans who attend these higher level and expensive sporting events aren't working "among the public" stocking shelves at WalMart, delivering packages, and working at packing plants. No, those who attend such expensive events are working from home, isolating, having others deliver things to them, traveling to "safe" areas of the country for the duration or on a safe island. Many don't fly coach or even commercial. It will be interesting to see how quickly the "religion of sports" comes back to being what it once was in our country, if ever. My wife and I love going to watch the Vegas Golden Knights and try to go several times a year. But will I go now, to sit with 18,000 strangers, tightly together, who come from all parts of the world and country, and might be infected, unknowingly? I don't see it happening. That's just me. I don't know what others will do. Watching the hockey playoffs on TV with no fans present seems pretty appealing until there are accurate and ever present tests and a vaccine.

Another issue is age. That will also be a huge paradigm shift it seems. In my experience now, people 60+ are much, much, much more reluctant to get out in the public. How will that play out in a place like in-door Iowa BB at Carver? Take a look at the demographic.

Lots of changes and challenges are coming it seems. Hopefully it will be less painful than projections might indicate. But, once severely frightened, and personally affected, it takes a long, long time to get back to what once was.

Right now...I am just thankful that many Hawkeyes were drafted and Iowa seems to be hauling in such a nice recruiting class in football. And, if Garza stays...well, we all know he MUST for our mental well-being :)

Stay safe. Keep the recruits coming.
 
My thoughts...

(1) Don't like the idea of a star system simply because it more about the "stars" and takes away the aspect of players having the opportunity of going to any school they want. I think the star system although it would balance out the playing field, makes it more about "product" and less about the athletes.

(2) Not sure I like the idea of restricting weights or using weight limits to determine what position a player is eligible to play. I don't have a wrestling background so have no knowledge or factual opinion formed, other than what I've heard about what wrestlers put their bodies through to shed weight and potential health hazards involved. So as I said very minimal knowledge that I'm sure has changed over the years in terms of monitoring weights for safety purposes. I think this would be detrimental in terms of recruiting as well at the high school levels since this is something that could not be feasible IMO due to roster sizes, so how would scouts go about recruiting players at early ages when they're still developing and adding the weight as they grow into their bodies.

(3) Very difficult as its been brought up that players who leave early are usually leaving school and missing spring practice. That said, I really like the idea of players having the opportunity to withdraw pull out of the draft if they go lower then projected or in the event they go undrafted.

Here's my thoughts on how this might be feasible. Move the combine up closer to the start of the spring semester and move the deadline for "declaring for the draft to shortly after the combine. It's obvious that the athletes wouldn't have the time to train as much, or recover in the case of injury, but it would affect everyone universally (with the exception of those playing deep into the bowl season, NC's etc...) This would also provide those that are "unsure" the opportunity to remain in school and participate in spring practice if they desire to create an opportunity for a "backup plan" in the event they decide to return.

Give them the option of hiring agents or entering without signing an agent to maintain their eligibility. I agree that it's unfair to the NFL to have players pulling their names at the last minute, however its also not fair to have have young men give up college eligibility because the experts or personnel from certain program(s) advised them that they were "first or second round talent". So here's my answer to that. Split up draft weekend. Hold the 1st and 2nd round a week ahead of rounds 3-7. Give the early entrants the opportunity to withdraw immediately in the event they are not selected. If anyone is selected or decides to remain "draft eligible" for the following weekend and are selected in the first 7 rounds then they no longer able to return for their senior year. If they end up going undrafted and don't have an agent, rather than forcing them into signing as a free agent allow them to return for their senior year if they meet the necessary requirements laid out (academically and set forth by the teams they were a part of).
 
My thoughts...

(1) Don't like the idea of a star system simply because it more about the "stars" and takes away the aspect of players having the opportunity of going to any school they want. I think the star system although it would balance out the playing field, makes it more about "product" and less about the athletes.

(2) Not sure I like the idea of restricting weights or using weight limits to determine what position a player is eligible to play. I don't have a wrestling background so have no knowledge or factual opinion formed, other than what I've heard about what wrestlers put their bodies through to shed weight and potential health hazards involved. So as I said very minimal knowledge that I'm sure has changed over the years in terms of monitoring weights for safety purposes. I think this would be detrimental in terms of recruiting as well at the high school levels since this is something that could not be feasible IMO due to roster sizes, so how would scouts go about recruiting players at early ages when they're still developing and adding the weight as they grow into their bodies.

(3) Very difficult as its been brought up that players who leave early are usually leaving school and missing spring practice. That said, I really like the idea of players having the opportunity to withdraw pull out of the draft if they go lower then projected or in the event they go undrafted.

Here's my thoughts on how this might be feasible. Move the combine up closer to the start of the spring semester and move the deadline for "declaring for the draft to shortly after the combine. It's obvious that the athletes wouldn't have the time to train as much, or recover in the case of injury, but it would affect everyone universally (with the exception of those playing deep into the bowl season, NC's etc...) This would also provide those that are "unsure" the opportunity to remain in school and participate in spring practice if they desire to create an opportunity for a "backup plan" in the event they decide to return.

Give them the option of hiring agents or entering without signing an agent to maintain their eligibility. I agree that it's unfair to the NFL to have players pulling their names at the last minute, however its also not fair to have have young men give up college eligibility because the experts or personnel from certain program(s) advised them that they were "first or second round talent". So here's my answer to that. Split up draft weekend. Hold the 1st and 2nd round a week ahead of rounds 3-7. Give the early entrants the opportunity to withdraw immediately in the event they are not selected. If anyone is selected or decides to remain "draft eligible" for the following weekend and are selected in the first 7 rounds then they no longer able to return for their senior year. If they end up going undrafted and don't have an agent, rather than forcing them into signing as a free agent allow them to return for their senior year if they meet the necessary requirements laid out (academically and set forth by the teams they were a part of).
Some interesting insights.

I think we both agree that several tweaks would be beneficial to the athletes.

I am concerned about the haves and have-nots harming the future of the sport (s).
 
Some interesting insights.

I think we both agree that several tweaks would be beneficial to the athletes.

I am concerned about the haves and have-nots harming the future of the sport (s).

Absolutely. I just want to be sure that in the event changes were made they would benefit the athletes and not the universities.
 

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