My 2 cents

H

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
In regards to this game which shouldn't have been too surprising based on the season they've had I'd say it was frustratingly predictable. If you're going to shoot and play that poorly for 2/3rds of a game you don't deserve to win. Especially against tournament level teams. It felt like we strategically were giving Auburn outside looks hoping they'd keep missing in the 2nd half and well they started to hit some. They built up a lead due to our D getting back slow in transition and just overall giving up good looks.

Offensively we just choked I guess. I mean Murray couldn't hit the broad side of a barn till late. Sandfort was trying at least. Perkins got in a little foul trouble and didn't play well at either end of the floor. Rebraca missed some bunnies he should normally hit. I think they defended him well you could tell they had a scouting report on him. When your difference making players are mostly struggling that bad it's tough to make up for. CM PM and Ulis weren't capable of making up for it.

Coaching wise where Fran could take some legit criticism I think is this. That wasn't the first game Iowa has been total shit coming out of the gates for a half of basketball shooting wise. At some point how does a coach not change some things up. We had them in the bonus late in that first half and a couple of their guys in foul trouble. Yet we didn't make it a priority to go to the hoop or post up more. Despite the poor shooting it was a close game still. If you're going to just settle and live and die by the 3 that's certainly a strategy but when you don't HAVE TO do that I don't see why you would. They certainly could have posted up Murray more. I wish they'd have gotten him the ball at the elbow/high post way more often. Just felt like their was some adjustments that could have been made.

Expectations coming into the year weren't exactly sky high. It was hopeful Murray would be a stud and lead us to the dance but I don't think it was a foregone conclusion that he would. He's clearly not his brother and not as tough or overall as good. As good as he's been at times he's human and had some rough outings too. Is what it is. Rebraca played above his expectations he was as consistent of a player that we had. As frustrated as I was with him at times he was playing out of position and always played his ass off. Perkins to me was too inconsistent. Showed that he can play at a high level yet would too often revert back to not... That is tough to overcome when your PG position gives you pretty much no production at all.

So hope ya'll enjoyed my rant.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
In regards to this game which shouldn't have been too surprising based on the season they've had I'd say it was frustratingly predictable. If you're going to shoot and play that poorly for 2/3rds of a game you don't deserve to win. Especially against tournament level teams. It felt like we strategically were giving Auburn outside looks hoping they'd keep missing in the 2nd half and well they started to hit some. They built up a lead due to our D getting back slow in transition and just overall giving up good looks.

Offensively we just choked I guess. I mean Murray couldn't hit the broad side of a barn till late. Sandfort was trying at least. Perkins got in a little foul trouble and didn't play well at either end of the floor. Rebraca missed some bunnies he should normally hit. I think they defended him well you could tell they had a scouting report on him. When your difference making players are mostly struggling that bad it's tough to make up for. CM PM and Ulis weren't capable of making up for it.

Coaching wise where Fran could take some legit criticism I think is this. That wasn't the first game Iowa has been total shit coming out of the gates for a half of basketball shooting wise. At some point how does a coach not change some things up. We had them in the bonus late in that first half and a couple of their guys in foul trouble. Yet we didn't make it a priority to go to the hoop or post up more. Despite the poor shooting it was a close game still. If you're going to just settle and live and die by the 3 that's certainly a strategy but when you don't HAVE TO do that I don't see why you would. They certainly could have posted up Murray more. I wish they'd have gotten him the ball at the elbow/high post way more often. Just felt like their was some adjustments that could have been made.

Expectations coming into the year weren't exactly sky high. It was hopeful Murray would be a stud and lead us to the dance but I don't think it was a foregone conclusion that he would. He's clearly not his brother and not as tough or overall as good. As good as he's been at times he's human and had some rough outings too. Is what it is. Rebraca played above his expectations he was as consistent of a player that we had. As frustrated as I was with him at times he was playing out of position and always played his ass off. Perkins to me was too inconsistent. Showed that he can play at a high level yet would too often revert back to not... That is tough to overcome when your PG position gives you pretty much no production at all.

So hope ya'll enjoyed my rant.
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Great post. In terms of Kris, for sure, he is not his brother. I don't know why he is projected so high on NBA draft boards. I guess probably over-inflated expectations based on how Keegan did at Iowa.

Kris is going to leave for the money no doubt, but if I was an NBA owner, I would say go work on your game.
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
Great post. In terms of Kris, for sure, he is not his brother. I don't know why he is projected so high on NBA draft boards. I guess probably over-inflated expectations based on how Keegan did at Iowa.

Kris is going to leave for the money no doubt, but if I was an NBA owner, I would say go work on your game.
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Thanks. Yeah Kris has to go with his age being almost 23 and all. He just does. What I suspect he'll do is something similar to what Luka and JW are doing and be a 2 way guy in the G league. He'll get some time in the big leagues but I bet he'll play more G league games. Hopefully he gets taken in 1st round so he'll have some guaranteed big $ upfront. But I'm with you I don't think he's an NBA starter right now either.
 
13 years into this I do think it is time for Fran to reassess things. Not suggesting he needs to go, just re-evaluate all aspects of the program.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Thanks. Yeah Kris has to go with his age being almost 23 and all. He just does. What I suspect he'll do is something similar to what Luka and JW are doing and be a 2 way guy in the G league. He'll get some time in the big leagues but I bet he'll play more G league games. Hopefully he gets taken in 1st round so he'll have some guaranteed big $ upfront. But I'm with you I don't think he's an NBA starter right now either.
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naah. Kenyon(Dad) is a really smart guy and has a high basketball IQ, Kris will be “fixed” before he starts individual workouts. He will not slide out of the 1st round.
 
trj said:
naah. Kenyon(Dad) is a really smart guy and has a high basketball IQ, Kris will be “fixed” before he starts individual workouts. He will not slide out of the 1st round.
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He has a hell of a lot of work to do. He has some of his brother’s skills, but comes up much shorter onnall of them including playing in the clutch. The only thing i’ll give him a pass on is that Keegan played with more talent around.

As far as mcfran, the ultra embarrassment that was a home loss to E Illinois while a 33 point fav should have been an extreme rye opener. I mean…who does that? EIU proceeded to go 9-22 this season. 9-22. Mcfran and painter have similar tournament success too. Both are middle of road coaches

Tony Bennett and lute olson are in the same club when it comes to ncaa failure…despite the latter two owning a title
 
trj said:
13 years into this I do think it is time for Fran to reassess things. Not suggesting he needs to go, just re-evaluate all aspects of the program.
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Yeah I think it's more of a Jimmy and Joes thing. We can usually have a couple good players at one end of the floor but they often have deficiencies at the other end. Or guys playing out of position and asked to do what they shouldn't. For reasons that lots of other schools have too it's tough to put the perfect 5 out there it just is. I don't think Fran ignores D or doesn't emphasis it enough like is often talked about. I think the players he has often aren't capable of it. It didn't matter how much JBo Garza and Rebraca worked at it they couldn't be great defenders. Rebraca was undersized going agains taller bigger dudes every single game. But they were all coached how to. Recruiting guys that are could be a new priority sure. But Fran prioritizes guys that can handle the ball and shoot mostly....
 
This team played just about like I thought they would. Make the tourney, lose early.

They won some good games, they lost some bad ones. This team could have used a legit 5, Rebracca had a great year but I believe most of us would agree his natural position is as a 4. And, we got almost no production out of Ulis all year. Oguldele and Mulvey look like busts at this points, can another off season bring them around? And, what to do at guard, Can Bowen and Dix contribute more next year? Will any of the incoming frosh make a difference?
 
Iceman said:
I feel the loss of Jack Nunge haunted us the last 2 years. This year we had one big man, Rebraca. He played great, but he was it. We had no choice but to win or loose via jumpers and 3's
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I know we can't think like this because they are gone but you can't help wonder what difference Nunge would h have made this year. Rebracca at the 4, they would have been a formidable interior.

I also have been thinking about CJ Fredrick. He's basically been a pine rider at Kentucky. If he would have stayed and had a stellar year, we for sure would have gotten more from him than Ulis.

But they weren't here.............
 
trj said:
naah. Kenyon(Dad) is a really smart guy and has a high basketball IQ, Kris will be “fixed” before he starts individual workouts. He will not slide out of the 1st round.
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Kris Murray may be a big topic of discussion for the next couple of months.

To go or not go, that is the question? If he does go where exactly will he go?

I don't know how many here in HN follow the NBA closely but I do. There is a lot of great, young talent coming into the NBA every year, more and more every year it seems. All those teams that won't make the playoffs are loaded with top flight talent. I heard during the Drake game yesterday that the average age of Drake is something over 23 years of age and that 5 teams, I think it was, in the NBA have average ages younger than that. I'm a Phx Suns fan and watch most of their games. Every team they play has these great young players that just keep coming at you, they just need experience, learn how to win.

I've got my doubts that KM will even get drafted. Very doubtful of the 1st round, maybe the 2nd. 1st round picks are guaranteed a roster spot, 2nd rounders not. That determines the amount of money you will make. I don't even know that I see KM as a two way player, going up and down like Luka. I'd guess G League, worst case overseas. There are a lot of really good players in the G league that can't make that leap up a level.

Kris needs to work on his overall game, his overall consistency. Where would that best be served? I think a case can be made that consistency could be worked on in Iowa City. As people say, Kenyon is a smart guy and they will figure it out. Keegan and Kris are very competitive between themselves by all accounts, it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I feel there's a good chance next years team will be better than this year with or without KM. With the 4 incoming frosh, maybe a portal guy or two, a defection or two to the portal, maybe even forced, the bigs being better, we will have a deeper, more rounded roster. Payton Sandfort will surely start, it will be his year to emerge. But he won't have to do it alone.
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
Great post. In terms of Kris, for sure, he is not his brother. I don't know why he is projected so high on NBA draft boards. I guess probably over-inflated expectations based on how Keegan did at Iowa.

Kris is going to leave for the money no doubt, but if I was an NBA owner, I would say go work on your game.
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I don't think Kris and Keegan are all that different. Keegan was better, but not by as much as you indicate. Kris averaged 20 points, 8 rebounds and 2 assists this year. Keegan's Sr. year, 23.5 points, 8.7 rebounds and 1.5 assists. There isn't that much separation.

I think fans sometimes get caught up in the "what have you done for me lately" thing. He did have some sub-par shooting games late in the year. But his defense was consistent and pretty good, IMO. He probably didn't have the amount of talent surrounding him that Keegan did last year. And, he was targeted every game as the guy to stop by the opposing team.

NBA scouts will look past a few poor shooting nights and look at the whole body of work. When it's all said and done I think he will be drafted somewhere in the first round and have a good NBA career.
 
Zstatman said:
Kris Murray may be a big topic of discussion for the next couple of months.

To go or not go, that is the question? If he does go where exactly will he go?

I don't know how many here in HN follow the NBA closely but I do. There is a lot of great, young talent coming into the NBA every year, more and more every year it seems. All those teams that won't make the playoffs are loaded with top flight talent. I heard during the Drake game yesterday that the average age of Drake is something over 23 years of age and that 5 teams, I think it was, in the NBA have average ages younger than that. I'm a Phx Suns fan and watch most of their games. Every team they play has these great young players that just keep coming at you, they just need experience, learn how to win.

I've got my doubts that KM will even get drafted. Very doubtful of the 1st round, maybe the 2nd. 1st round picks are guaranteed a roster spot, 2nd rounders not. That determines the amount of money you will make. I don't even know that I see KM as a two way player, going up and down like Luka. I'd guess G League, worst case overseas. There are a lot of really good players in the G league that can't make that leap up a level.

Kris needs to work on his overall game, his overall consistency. Where would that best be served? I think a case can be made that consistency could be worked on in Iowa City. As people say, Kenyon is a smart guy and they will figure it out. Keegan and Kris are very competitive between themselves by all accounts, it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I feel there's a good chance next years team will be better than this year with or without KM. With the 4 incoming frosh, maybe a portal guy or two, a defection or two to the portal, maybe even forced, the bigs being better, we will have a deeper, more rounded roster. Payton Sandfort will surely start, it will be his year to emerge. But he won't have to do it alone.
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He is going to be a 1st round pick. Will he make it beyond that first contract is literally the million dollar question.
 
haydensly said:
I don't think Kris and Keegan are all that different. Keegan was better, but not by as much as you indicate. Kris averaged 20 points, 8 rebounds and 2 assists this year. Keegan's Sr. year, 23.5 points, 8.7 rebounds and 1.5 assists. There isn't that much separation.

I think fans sometimes get caught up in the "what have you done for me lately" thing. He did have some sub-par shooting games late in the year. But his defense was consistent and pretty good, IMO. He probably didn't have the amount of talent surrounding him that Keegan did last year. And, he was targeted every game as the guy to stop by the opposing team.

NBA scouts will look past a few poor shooting nights and look at the whole body of work. When it's all said and done I think he will be drafted somewhere in the first round and have a good NBA career.
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I could buy that take. Time will tell....personally I think he will sink to the D league or over seas.

But, I was wrong about Tyler Cook being NBA bound so who knows.

He needs a shot doctor.
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
I could buy that take. Time will tell....personally I think he will sink to the D league or over seas.

But, I was wrong about Tyler Cook being NBA bound so who knows.

He needs a shot doctor.
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I just think you're putting too much emphasis on shooting. I get it, it's important. But he also had plenty of games where he was a consistently good shooter. FWIW, he may benefit from a shooting coach.

Tyler Cook, unfortunately, went into the league without a consistent jump shot and I think that has hurt him. Kris will get it figured out.
 
Iowa did not choke. They are what they are. Blaming players is like blaming ARob for losses running into stacked lines with not attempt to mix it up.

Murray is a good player. Get off it.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
In regards to this game which shouldn't have been too surprising based on the season they've had I'd say it was frustratingly predictable. If you're going to shoot and play that poorly for 2/3rds of a game you don't deserve to win. Especially against tournament level teams. It felt like we strategically were giving Auburn outside looks hoping they'd keep missing in the 2nd half and well they started to hit some. They built up a lead due to our D getting back slow in transition and just overall giving up good looks.

Offensively we just choked I guess. I mean Murray couldn't hit the broad side of a barn till late. Sandfort was trying at least. Perkins got in a little foul trouble and didn't play well at either end of the floor. Rebraca missed some bunnies he should normally hit. I think they defended him well you could tell they had a scouting report on him. When your difference making players are mostly struggling that bad it's tough to make up for. CM PM and Ulis weren't capable of making up for it.

Coaching wise where Fran could take some legit criticism I think is this. That wasn't the first game Iowa has been total shit coming out of the gates for a half of basketball shooting wise. At some point how does a coach not change some things up. We had them in the bonus late in that first half and a couple of their guys in foul trouble. Yet we didn't make it a priority to go to the hoop or post up more. Despite the poor shooting it was a close game still. If you're going to just settle and live and die by the 3 that's certainly a strategy but when you don't HAVE TO do that I don't see why you would. They certainly could have posted up Murray more. I wish they'd have gotten him the ball at the elbow/high post way more often. Just felt like their was some adjustments that could have been made.

Expectations coming into the year weren't exactly sky high. It was hopeful Murray would be a stud and lead us to the dance but I don't think it was a foregone conclusion that he would. He's clearly not his brother and not as tough or overall as good. As good as he's been at times he's human and had some rough outings too. Is what it is. Rebraca played above his expectations he was as consistent of a player that we had. As frustrated as I was with him at times he was playing out of position and always played his ass off. Perkins to me was too inconsistent. Showed that he can play at a high level yet would too often revert back to not... That is tough to overcome when your PG position gives you pretty much no production at all.

So hope ya'll enjoyed my rant.
Click to expand...
Great rant.. I have a couple questions One why does everyone think that Chris Murray should go to the NBA. Money and he'll go. But through the season I didn't really see him totally take over games against good teams mediocre team Yes But I think he should stay another year help the team become a better player increase stock. Because he'll just be A G league player. I hope he gets some good advice.. 2nd question everyone wants to get rid of fran but do you really want barta To pick another coach I don't think he has 5 names in his desk that he can go to or For some coach who wants to come to Iowa. Remember he hired Todd licklighter, enough said.. That's my rant..
 
Hawkeye/swish said:
Great rant.. I have a couple questions One why does everyone think that Chris Murray should go to the NBA. Money and he'll go. But through the season I didn't really see him totally take over games against good teams mediocre team Yes But I think he should stay another year help the team become a better player increase stock. Because he'll just be A G league player. I hope he gets some good advice.. 2nd question everyone wants to get rid of fran but do you really want barta To pick another coach I don't think he has 5 names in his desk that he can go to or For some coach who wants to come to Iowa. Remember he hired Todd licklighter, enough said.. That's my rant..
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We would all like to see Kris come back

If he is projected a first-round pick, he will probably go

Another year of seasoning would make him more prepared for the NBA
 
Hawkeye/swish said:
Great rant.. I have a couple questions One why does everyone think that Chris Murray should go to the NBA. Money and he'll go. But through the season I didn't really see him totally take over games against good teams mediocre team Yes But I think he should stay another year help the team become a better player increase stock. Because he'll just be A G league player. I hope he gets some good advice.. 2nd question everyone wants to get rid of fran but do you really want barta To pick another coach I don't think he has 5 names in his desk that he can go to or For some coach who wants to come to Iowa. Remember he hired Todd licklighter, enough said.. That's my rant..
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Nobody takes over a game without a support cast. He's better than ya'll think. Wonder how many none 1st rounders average +20 per game and 7 boards?
 
haydensly said:
I don't think Kris and Keegan are all that different. Keegan was better, but not by as much as you indicate. Kris averaged 20 points, 8 rebounds and 2 assists this year. Keegan's Sr. year, 23.5 points, 8.7 rebounds and 1.5 assists. There isn't that much separation.

I think fans sometimes get caught up in the "what have you done for me lately" thing. He did have some sub-par shooting games late in the year. But his defense was consistent and pretty good, IMO. He probably didn't have the amount of talent surrounding him that Keegan did last year. And, he was targeted every game as the guy to stop by the opposing team.

NBA scouts will look past a few poor shooting nights and look at the whole body of work. When it's all said and done I think he will be drafted somewhere in the first round and have a good NBA career.
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The focal point of Fran's offense is always going to be around 20 points per game. My question is how did Keegan and Kris compare scoring efficiency wise. Maybe I'm wrong but it sure seemed like a big difference on how hard each player had to work to get their 20.
 
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