Miller: Are Hawkeye Offensive Problems Systemic?
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
At the beginning of the GD era, I said he needed to change his passing game to fit into Iowa's run game scheme. It seems he has gone 180 degrees the opposite way. He has his passing offense fully implemented, and the Iowa run game is same as always. I think this is why the D seems to know exactly when we are going to run. KOK took much abuse around here, but he did keep the D off balance, and you didn't know when the play action was coming. D's aren't having a problem reading what GD has coming at them, and it is causing problems and will continue to cause more. I am about done with the GD experiment, just get Brian in there sooner rather than later at OC, as that is obviously the plan.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
Right now i would say this offense is a bigger disaster than the 2012 version.
We have talent, experience, and know the playbook but still can't score points and half the time can barely keep drives alive.
We are predictable. And others have nailed it, our identity is to be conservative and not take chances. Teams have us figured out.
And thr RB rotation. Might be the most baffling part of the offense.
We have talent, experience, and know the playbook but still can't score points and half the time can barely keep drives alive.
We are predictable. And others have nailed it, our identity is to be conservative and not take chances. Teams have us figured out.
And thr RB rotation. Might be the most baffling part of the offense.
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
Really good piece, Jon.
Here's my take on Rudock/CJ. Kirk can keep playing the game manager Rudock and have his safe, 7-5 or 8-4 season and put another Insight Bowl feather in his cap or he can actually take a chance and go with the more upside and laser-armed CJ and increase the ceiling on wins to maybe 10. I mean, I know it's a small sample size, but CJ's arm looks about as good as anyone in college football right now. Look the B1G West division is there for the taking and our chances are enhanced with a qb who can throw the ball downfield and make defenses not load the box as opposed to what we're seeing now. And, the B1G East's future champ suddenly doesn't look invincible. I have a hard time seeing us making it to the B1G championship game with such a game manager at qb.
I hear you when you say that intel reports that CJ takes too many chances and he does appear to try and hit the home run a lot. But let the kid learn from his mistakes, I'm sure they can watch film with him and teach him up. So we're saying CJ can't improve in that area with added reps in real games and further film study?
Be prepared for CJ to transfer as well. Do we think he's not aware that he has more talent than Rudock and yet isn't getting a chance to play much? Do we think his family and friends aren't going to start recommending that he transfers out of this raw deal they're going to be telling him he's in?
Oh well, it's whistling in the wind to think Kirk is going to actually take a chance given his nature. What a pity.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
"Systemic" ... "Ferentzic"
"toMAto" ... "tomMAHto"
As long as KirkFer roams the sidelines, "offense" is for ball control, giving the defense as much of a rest as possible, field position and, lastly, scoring. The Ferentz-liter philosophy puts such a stranglehold on the offense that he's traded the reward-risk for perfect execution. Of course, execution is crucial and expected by every coach at every level, however, Corp takes it to a level that all but eliminates the margin for error. When you you intentionally minimize the margin for error, you relinquish some control over the outcome and turn it over (no pun intended) to chance -- the inches and the bounces that are so crucial to whether Iowa wins or loses -- because you simply are not concerned as much about scoring as you should be.
This is the #1 reason whey I don't like KirkFer as a coach -- much like I didn't like Lickliter as a coach -- his style is boring and, worse, intentionally minimizes his strengths. When he doesn't have explosive play-makers, it's all about the system and rarely about maximizing strengths through strategy and play-calling. When he does have some playmakers (and he's had a lot more over the years than have been given credit), it's all about the system and, more so, the philosophy, as he rarely lets them out of the barn to run and rarely tries to exploit their strengths through creative strategy.
My contempt for his philosophy and style grows stronger every season, not only because I watch the same movie, year after year, but I recall hearing from guys like Kill, Mason, Fitz and others that have come and gone, pointing to Iowa as the team / program to emulate, then they have great success beating Iowa, even when they're the "inferior" team (and program) on paper. Then you have Dantonio, another admirer, who has easily surpassed KirkFer, doing all the things KirkFer wants to do, with 1 crucial enhancement -- actually attacking your opponent with the intent to outscore them.
Offense is more than just a nuisance. It needs to be used to expand the margin for error that "perfect execution" imposes.
"toMAto" ... "tomMAHto"
As long as KirkFer roams the sidelines, "offense" is for ball control, giving the defense as much of a rest as possible, field position and, lastly, scoring. The Ferentz-liter philosophy puts such a stranglehold on the offense that he's traded the reward-risk for perfect execution. Of course, execution is crucial and expected by every coach at every level, however, Corp takes it to a level that all but eliminates the margin for error. When you you intentionally minimize the margin for error, you relinquish some control over the outcome and turn it over (no pun intended) to chance -- the inches and the bounces that are so crucial to whether Iowa wins or loses -- because you simply are not concerned as much about scoring as you should be.
This is the #1 reason whey I don't like KirkFer as a coach -- much like I didn't like Lickliter as a coach -- his style is boring and, worse, intentionally minimizes his strengths. When he doesn't have explosive play-makers, it's all about the system and rarely about maximizing strengths through strategy and play-calling. When he does have some playmakers (and he's had a lot more over the years than have been given credit), it's all about the system and, more so, the philosophy, as he rarely lets them out of the barn to run and rarely tries to exploit their strengths through creative strategy.
My contempt for his philosophy and style grows stronger every season, not only because I watch the same movie, year after year, but I recall hearing from guys like Kill, Mason, Fitz and others that have come and gone, pointing to Iowa as the team / program to emulate, then they have great success beating Iowa, even when they're the "inferior" team (and program) on paper. Then you have Dantonio, another admirer, who has easily surpassed KirkFer, doing all the things KirkFer wants to do, with 1 crucial enhancement -- actually attacking your opponent with the intent to outscore them.
Offense is more than just a nuisance. It needs to be used to expand the margin for error that "perfect execution" imposes.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
Folks, I just don't think it's going to happen for CJB this year unless something happens to Rudock. I think the coaches know best
I am mildly confident that if the offense underperforms this year that Ferentz will make a change at OC or Davis will "retire". I am highly confident that even with potential change we will still remain conservative in our approach to the game on both sides of the ball.
Past history shows otherwise Jon.
KF likes his safe QB and that is all there is to it....CJB is the better QB over all and if I were him i would transfer immediately...as the coaching staff is to dumb to use him.
HawkeyeDenis
Well-Known Member
Good write Jon. I agree. I am not one of the people who were calling for Ken O'Keefe to go either. His offense's may have been a bit vanilla but they seemed to be better organized. This is an excellent group of wide receivers and it's a shame that their talents are being stifled. Wiesman needs to be used with Canzeri spelling him for a change of pace.
I also am not in favor of changing out Rudock for CJ either. CJ may have a good arm, but a the biggest skill a QB needs is good decision making. Jake has no INT's. A 75% completion average. And I think he was around 60% for the year last year. It's not broken.
I also am not in favor of changing out Rudock for CJ either. CJ may have a good arm, but a the biggest skill a QB needs is good decision making. Jake has no INT's. A 75% completion average. And I think he was around 60% for the year last year. It's not broken.
NCHawker
Well-Known Member
I am still clutching on to the belief (like someone hanging on a cliff, holding on to a fist full of grass) that they will soon change the play selection, that they were just emphasizing the passing game to develop greater competence, that the commitment to the run and consequential play action ...will all return soon.
But when I se he short 5 yard passes.... It makes me want to turn off the TV and go rake the leaves.
But when I se he short 5 yard passes.... It makes me want to turn off the TV and go rake the leaves.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
The last 2+ years of Iowa football honestly give me no reason to think that we're going to see anything much different than "3 yards and a cloud of dust", in either the running or passing game. If that wasn't the plan, I would think that they wouldn't STILL be doing that, although would like to be wrong. If Rudock isn't going down field as much as they want, then why doesn't CJB get more opportunity? I get the feeling this is all coaching.
In today's game going up against many teams that are often more aggressive offensively, an offense which is THAT conservative isn't going to cut it IMO, unless your level of talent is so good that you can simply impose your will play after play, and sustain 6 minute, 12 play drives. Iowa doesn't normally have the talent to be able to do that, play after play after play. Yeah, Iowa seems able to accumulate some yardage and move the ball between the 20's, but the drives usually end up stalling and result in a FG attempt (even worse if you miss).
Iowa could do this and impose it's will somewhat in 2002 (great talent at TE, OL, RB, WR, QB, etc.) but that is not the norm. Gotta hit some big plays here and there to get points on the board... Scoring from outside the red zone on occasion or have a big play to get you inside the 20 or Goal To Go, and hopefully finish the drive.
I don't feel you can expect to consistently put together 10+ play touchdown drives with flawless execution when your opponents generally have comparable or better talent than you do. At some point the opponent is going to make a play and stop you, or your execution won't be A+.
Just the way I see it. Gotta open it up and take a few shots and worry a little less about "what if". I don't mean going for the home run every play.. Just stop with the continual dump off passes. If we have as much talent at WR as Jon says we do, our players should be able to get 15-20 yards down the field and also get some YAC's.
In today's game going up against many teams that are often more aggressive offensively, an offense which is THAT conservative isn't going to cut it IMO, unless your level of talent is so good that you can simply impose your will play after play, and sustain 6 minute, 12 play drives. Iowa doesn't normally have the talent to be able to do that, play after play after play. Yeah, Iowa seems able to accumulate some yardage and move the ball between the 20's, but the drives usually end up stalling and result in a FG attempt (even worse if you miss).
Iowa could do this and impose it's will somewhat in 2002 (great talent at TE, OL, RB, WR, QB, etc.) but that is not the norm. Gotta hit some big plays here and there to get points on the board... Scoring from outside the red zone on occasion or have a big play to get you inside the 20 or Goal To Go, and hopefully finish the drive.
I don't feel you can expect to consistently put together 10+ play touchdown drives with flawless execution when your opponents generally have comparable or better talent than you do. At some point the opponent is going to make a play and stop you, or your execution won't be A+.
Just the way I see it. Gotta open it up and take a few shots and worry a little less about "what if". I don't mean going for the home run every play.. Just stop with the continual dump off passes. If we have as much talent at WR as Jon says we do, our players should be able to get 15-20 yards down the field and also get some YAC's.
Well said Jon. While I salivate at the abilities of CJ, and would like to see him get more series to try and make big plays, I do still think we have enough horses to be a fine offense with Ruddock. Our offensive woes are on the coaches and only the coaches. Time for them to get it figured out although I'm losing hope in that as we're 15+ years into this.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
Based on what I have heard in the last 24 hours from talking to folks who have been to recent practices, I really think the coaches know best in this one. Not many players get a chance for significant time in games when they can't get it done in practice or when they continue to make the same mistakes in practice, or are risky with the ball....that, and Jake has done nothing to lose the job and he's proven to be an effective leader and performer.
imported_ankle23
Well-Known Member
yeah, ferentz wants to keep the better players on the bench......these guys don't want to win.
Winterhawk
Well-Known Member
I'm largely in agreement with the assessment, especially the over-emphasis of no risk, but I think you are not appreciating the fact that not only is Rudock's arm not that strong, but also lacks deep accuracy and that necessary timing. You referenced gamefilms assessment, and he pointed that out too. The big plays have almost always come from play action in the KF era. The problem now is that the defenders who bite on play action are in good position to defend the underneath routes and checkdowns that Rudock is consistently able to throw. The ball downfield is often so off target and so ill-timed on the release that it is a worthwhile gamble for opposing defenses to play these in man because it is likely to be incomplete. To your point about having a strong arm not being required - agreed look no further than Peyton Manning, especially after the neck surgery. Manning doesn't even throw a good spiral all that often on deep balls. Manning is however trusting his receivers and getting the ball out early. I don't expect Rudock to be anywhere near Manning, ever, but Rudock will not learn that timing in season - period. He can learn from film on his reads and staying with the downfield routes longer, but he will not learn that timing now.
All this is not to say that I have the exposure to the hawkeye football program to make a call between Jake and CJ, and like you I do trust that the coaching staff is making a reasoned evaluation. However, the offense will greatly struggle in large until we have a quarterback who can allow routes to develop and execute the deeper throws.
Related note, with Scherff out the next couple of weeks - it will get worse. In large part the ball state protection was the best it will be all year. Jake had forever and his internal clock was still going off too early to check downs. Take the under the next few weeks boys, our D is good (save Lowdermilk) and our O is scared.
All this is not to say that I have the exposure to the hawkeye football program to make a call between Jake and CJ, and like you I do trust that the coaching staff is making a reasoned evaluation. However, the offense will greatly struggle in large until we have a quarterback who can allow routes to develop and execute the deeper throws.
Related note, with Scherff out the next couple of weeks - it will get worse. In large part the ball state protection was the best it will be all year. Jake had forever and his internal clock was still going off too early to check downs. Take the under the next few weeks boys, our D is good (save Lowdermilk) and our O is scared.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
This. I think a good description is that KF knows he doesn't have the top flight players every year. Iowa is a developmental program, not a scheme / X&O program to keep up with other teams. So he keeps the schemes simple (on both sides of the ball) to manage the clock, keep games close, and play for turnovers, field position, and special teams. We've had maybe two or three seasons with KF where the offense was explosive? Or wasn't a liability. The rest, it's always on defense.Iowa doesn't scheme for the opponents for this reason. It would create confusion for our players. Instead we work on fundamentals, and keep the schemes the same so our players can have a better chance to execute. Problem is, other teams have this figured out and we struggle to put up points, and sometimes to even move the ball.I agree that this is my main beef with KF. I have wanted him gone for a while. Can we say that it's getting better? At least the defense has adapted a little bit. But the offense seems to regress each year, getting more and more conservative and it's taken the joy out of watching the game
NCHawker
Well-Known Member
At Indiana, you can count on an exciting offense and usually anytime they play lots of points will be scored during the game. At Iowa you can usually count on sound defense. Ask around the conference. Which team would you feel more confident in beating? You can bet that Indiana is the team that most fans would feel more confident in beating.
OK that’s out of the way. So an emphasis on defense has gotten Iowa more wins than what Indiana has gotten with their emphasis on offense.
But it need not be an ‘either this or that’ proposition.You can have both !
OK that’s out of the way. So an emphasis on defense has gotten Iowa more wins than what Indiana has gotten with their emphasis on offense.
But it need not be an ‘either this or that’ proposition.You can have both !
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