archiehawk
Well-Known Member
Looks like the refs may take this game over in favor of Alabama. Getting to be pretty suspicious.
Michigan Alabama game
- Thread starter archiehawk
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JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
It keeps getting more and more ridiculous.
archiehawk
Well-Known Member
Now they screw wisconsin on a phony pick call.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I can say with 100% certainty that this bowl season has been the most poorly officiated...both in the field as well as the review booth...in history. It’s also pretty well documented by multiple people that this was the worst officiated season in the NFL as well. It’s going to kill this sport.
Fryowa
Administrator
It’s not any worse than it’s ever been.
The only thing that’s different is the number of camera angles, the video resolution, and higher frame rate slow mo shots. Period.
Viewers can see the mistakes in painstaking detail now, where as in the 80s-00s you couldn’t.
ABC/ESPN said there were 24 cameras at each bowl game they covered and that didn’t count the remote zip line cameras and the pylon ones. Now we have tons of high speed cameras with frame rates so ridiculously high that they can even catch the 60Hz flicker of the stadium’s LED lights. Literally every play has 20 plus different angles to look at.
Back in the day you had 3-4 cameras and the “slow mo” views were just the shitty, 24 fps camera shots slowed down. Things would move like two feet each frame; you couldn’t see shit.
Look, I agree that officiating misses a lot. A whole lot. But the idea that somehow it’s getting worse is bullshit. The only reason you think it’s worse is because you can see it now. In the 90s and 00s nobody picked apart PI or fumble or forward pass or whatever calls. They just went on with the game.
Now, they review every even remotely controversial call so there’s five fuckin minutes for them to show you 20 different angles slowed down from 5,000 fps in 720p resolution, while the announcers hash it over, and the they bring in their “rules experts” and beat it to death. If anything, due to the scrutiny officiating has gotten way better.
You can’t say anecdotally that officiating is getting worse. You just getting to pick it apart more.
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JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
Some of the replay calls have been insane. Maybe it was always this bad, but I really don’t think so, at least not with the officials seeming inability to comprehend what is happening on film.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I know you officiate, so you’ve got a built in bias...nothing wrong with that by the way. And we can debate the on the field officiating and whether it’s worse or not. I tend to think it is, but reasonable people can disagree. What CAN’T be debated in my mind is the amount of flat out wrong calls from the replay officials. It’s been damn near criminal.
Fryowa
Administrator
To be clear, I’m not arguing that officials aren’t missing calls. They miss a ton. The only thing I’m saying is that it isn’t getting worse on the field.
To try and be as objective as possible...
-There are more officials in each game today then there used to be. More eyes on the game reduces the workload and thus increases accuracy.
-There is exponentially more training and evaluation than ever before.
-There is much more competition for the available jobs than there ever was because of how lucrative high-level officiating is (six figure jobs are cutthroat to get), resulting in the best available people being hired.
To say that it’s getting worse is illogical. If there’s a logical reason for officiating to be getting worse then by all means I’m all ears, but there’s just nothing there.
To explain the perception that officiating is getting worse there’s only one variable and that’s higher scrutiny. And by higher scrutiny I mean the insane camera technology, number of angles, and the incessant, redundant replays on tv after each play.
It stands to logical reason that with more in depth scrutiny you’ll uncover way more mistakes. But there aren’t any logical reasons why it would be getting worse.
You're right, there are no logical reasons it would be getting worse -- when they're officiating the same rules and calls. But they're not. For most of my lifetime, there was either 'Unnecessary Roughness' or there wasn't. Now, you've got multiple criteria for 'Targeting' that must be met which involves very tricky and somewhat judgmental decisions regarding whether a player is 'defenseless' or not, 'launching' or not, whether the hit is on the neck or head area or not, etc...and that's just for one type of penalty!
I'm not saying refereeing is getting worse; I just think it's getting harder and harder because of all the additional criteria for penalties, especially targeting. Logically, more criteria plus more subjectivity is going to result in more controversy and criticism.
I think this is an issue, along with your excellent points about cameras and slow motion replay.
I'm not saying refereeing is getting worse; I just think it's getting harder and harder because of all the additional criteria for penalties, especially targeting. Logically, more criteria plus more subjectivity is going to result in more controversy and criticism.
I think this is an issue, along with your excellent points about cameras and slow motion replay.
Got a kick out of Ole Saban punching in that last TD instead of putting a knee down. Ran it 3 times inside 2 mins when he could have put a knee down. Nothing accidental about that. Then Harbaugh down 2 possessions trying like hell to get another score back all so Shea could get another INT on a hail marry. That post game handshake was really fast and insincere. Pure comedy.
You can't tell me that didn't all go back to the whole satalight camp deal a few yrs ago when Harbaugh was having them right in the middle of SECville. Saban and the whole SEC was bent out of shape about him and then others doing it. I think Harbaugh may have been first. But shoot that's where the most of the best kids usually are. If they were in Montana then Saban would be doing the same thing in Helena.
You can't tell me that didn't all go back to the whole satalight camp deal a few yrs ago when Harbaugh was having them right in the middle of SECville. Saban and the whole SEC was bent out of shape about him and then others doing it. I think Harbaugh may have been first. But shoot that's where the most of the best kids usually are. If they were in Montana then Saban would be doing the same thing in Helena.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I'm wondering if that wasn't a big FU to Michigan from his days of being the coach at MSU? Saban was only 2-3 against Michigan when he was at MSU.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
I think the biggest challenge is that the guys playing the game are more athletic than they've ever been, which makes the plays way faster and harder to observe in real time. Same with basketball.
And in football the refs have so many things to watch. I've mentioned this before, but NASCAR uses cameras to officiate certain totally objective aspects. With the amount of money on the line, the P5 could certainly come up with a camera system that could call certain penalties, like illegal man downfield, illegal motion, offsides, 12 men on the field, illegal touching, illegal forward pass, etc. The officiating system is perfectly suited for the 3 yards and a clowd of dust era, but these modern offenses have so many wrinkles that it is really hard for the refs to keep track of it all.
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
Well the refs didn't miss the catch and fumble in the OSU-Clemson game, they got it right on the field. It was the replay official who decided to play hero and overturn it. Three steps with control of the ball isn't a catch now because the receiver didn't make a "football move" whatever that exactly is.
Perhaps. I doubt it only because that was quite awhile ago in football terms. Saban has since became the most highly decorated coach in modern times. That sort of thing shouldn't stick. I think it was more of a he and Harbaugh thing then he and Michigan thing. Only because recruiting is such a cut throat thing especially down here...
Oh yeah. Next year against Ohio St and Wisconsin and the next time Iowa plays Michigan the same posters will be talking about how those teams always get the calls against Iowa.
homes
Well-Known Member
The fans are probably experiencing a serious bout of cognitive dissonance. A few years ago, he was the savior, after Rodriguez and Hoke. After an early turnaround, things have leveled off. They still want to believe but the results are such that they're not near where they thought they'd be.
ChosenChildren
Well-Known Member
This is great analysis. I think replay review is ruining college and pro football. Almost everything gets reviewed now, and the reviews take longer and longer.
Give each team 2 reviews - one per half. Once you use your review, it is gone. That would be a limit of 4 reviews per game. Period. No automatic review of scoring plays. No "New York" reviews. The guys upstairs now have TOO MUCH power, and they seem to get it wrong just as often as the guys on the field.
Put the power back into the hands of the refs on the field. It is a better game that way.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
That's ClintonIAfan's job.
While I've been vocal about those 2 blown calls I've also said it wasn't the sole reason why they lost. Both Ohio State and Wisconsin had plenty of opportunities to win their bowl games and failed.
