Maryland game thread

I read a lot of good talking points to put on the white board at the "retreat".

For an older guy, someone who loves the game of basketball and is a born-n-bred Hawkeye (also alum), it really boils down to:

1) Performance. Obviously prefer W's but, even more-so, consistent competence and playing to capability.

No lectures needed about "that's sports", blah, blah, blah. I played, I know, off games, etc. I'm talking about the same shit, year after year, that it's to the point (for me, at least) that the only consistency is what is not going to happen / which one is not going to reliably perform.

No single outs but, in general ...
How many years have we heard what GREAT shooters we have, only to routinely watch terrible shooting performances that are inexplicable by the "had an off game"?
How many years (decades) have we watched below average to just plain bad defense, along with many other basic fundamentals (pick-n-roll; box out and go get the damn rebound; move the ball inside out through the air)?
This is especially the case with Fran's fast system. I get it, it can be fun to watch but if you're gonna do it ya gotta have the guys do it.

In Good Co frequently references Fran's accomplishments as far as making the tourney and developing high caliber players. Duly noted. However, I'm of the opinion that, in basketball, if you have consensus All-American players - even 1 - do as well as you do in the Big10-ish (even win the tourney), which means you also have a decent enough supporting cast (i.e. Bohannon + Garza + Murrays + Mac boys) you should be able to get to the S16 and you certainly can't piss away a 1st round game to Richmond.

Those years were disappointing, missed opportunities. We are now getting to 3-4 years removed and that seed of waning enthusiasm is starting to bear fruit.
** Side note ** I had little expectation for this year but see a lot of reason to be excited about Harding, Freeman and (hopefully) Koch over the next couple years. None the less, it's going to mean WINS and hearing their names as they become stars to get fan attention.

2) Convenience. Between the weeknight schedule, weather and that the reasons above, for someone who would have to travel, it's just too easy to watch on TV.

As far as generating local and student enthusiasm, consider the audience. It might be lame excuses for some to accept but I think students / culture is different from the 80's when I attended. They need ease and excitement to motivate them. Right now, there's neither.

I think the ease would be satisfied by relocation. Fantastic idea to relocate to replace the OC Mall - which looks to have become a ghost town that is little more than a shelter and a piss stop between the ped mall and the games. It would be a prime spot that is a few blocks from where most students live and go for entertainment. They wouldn't have to wait for Cambus. They wouldn't have to pay for Uber. They could maintain the pre-game buzz from bar to game (Only on weekend games, kids!;))

That extends to paying public. Right now, if you go to Carver (which I'm planning to do next Friday for Ohio State), you have to find a place to eat, probably somewhere in Coralville - because it's closer. You have to get back in the car and find a place to park. Carver lots are a half-hour in traffic to get in, an ordeal to find a space, a long walk to the arena and and hour to get out. I usually grab a spot in someone's lawn, which is an adventure itself navigating the 1-lane neighborhood roads near Carver and will be even worse with piles of snow obscuring entry ways and taking up spaces. I'd love to be able to park, walk to eats / drinks, check out campus, maybe visit the book-n-crook, walk to the game AND would probably hang a bit after the game before heading home.

Right now, Carver is like going to Field of Dreams ... Cool to go to the event but there's no amenities around it. You either have to create a ped-mall west or move it to where the action is. Either way, if you build it, they will come!

Excitement would be satisfied by a couple things:
-- The #1, do it now with little to no effort is the long-stated no-brainer ... swap the students for the blue-hairs.
-- More difficult is #2 ... You have to have "star" power. You need a Garza, Murray ... or, God willing, a Caitlin Clark! If you don't have that then you have to have a team that plays well and gets WINS.

Which brings me full circle ... :confused:

These are just product and convenience issues that address Iowa's attendance. So many fixables - I hope it doesn't take the U elders as long to figure out as it took to simply paint the water tower.
However, there's still other challenges that basketball, itself, faces ...
-- It's not football.
-- A fifth of it's schedule takes place when students aren't around.
-- There is no other sport more poorly / inconsistently / subjectively officiated and where officiating can have such a negative impact on the flow and outcome of the game. This is especially true in the Big-10-ish.

If you made it this far, thanx for reading. Please understand it's just this old Hawkeye fan's 99 + 2 cents. No need to go ad-hominem if you disagree. Go Hawks!
Some good points. And I've been on the "replace the Old Capitol Mall with a downtown arena" train since I joined this forum in early 2018.

I think losing to Richmond in the first round after winning the BTT was a bounce from which we have yet to recover. We could have used a Friday draw that year, or at least a Thursday evening draw, after playing four in four but got neither. Of course, neither did Richmond.

Not getting out of the first weekend the year before as a two seed was another crippling blow. We had Garza, Wieskamp, both Murrays, both Mac boys, JBo, and a solid supporting cast and still couldn't advance.

Carver, for the 5,298th time, isn't the issue. They pack em in for the women and for Wrestling.

I think fans want to see a deep tourney run, something that a fan born after 1985 or so has yet to experience. T-Rex dinosaurs might have just as well been roaming the earth since out last sweet sixteen run. Add to that the fact that the women have a once in a lifetime game transcending talent, that there is no true star power on the men's team anymore, that Fran's "fire and passion" is too often misguided, that his kids have unfairly been made the faces of the team, and it's a perfect storm of growing apathy. Now add on that his youngest doesn't want to play here and then was involved in a tragic off court accident...

....February could get ugly. Finding consistency on the court, playing like they did two weeks ago, would be a good place to start regaining some equity. Peyton's public on the court dressing down of Freeman was not a good sign. He is always the one preaching "stick together" after tough losses and then he goes and does that.
 
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Fran fatigue

I have heard that term being thrown around quite this season. Tell me what that means.

There’s no Kirk fatigue.
There’s no Bluder fatigue.
There’s no Brands fatigue.

There is a portion of the fan base that have a hard time embracing him and are looking for any reason(excuse) not to go to games. Bury your head in the sand if you want because you don’t like the buzzword/terminology used to describe it.
I can see just fine, thank you.
 
Take away the few years from Lute and ONE season from Mr. Davis and Fran has given you exactly what Iowa has been the last 40+ years….average to slightly above, mixed in with the occasional good.

Everyone is making excuses for the lack of attendance as if Iowa is the only school that has to deal with these issues.
Look around the league and you will see that not many teams in the league have that issue.

Did you see Northwestern vs Illinois Wednesday night? Electric atmosphere in what could still be considered, even after remodeling, a band box gym.

Do they even show the student section in games played at Carver? Look at how often they show student sections at other league games.
 
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So Iowa is the only fan base that has great televisions and a limited amount of time and discretionary income to go to games. Got it.
Let’s look up the stats. Rank order of men’s basketball attendance averages per game in the Big Ten for last season. Maybe that would change my mind. Or yours.
 
I read a lot of good talking points to put on the white board at the "retreat".

For an older guy, someone who loves the game of basketball and is a born-n-bred Hawkeye (also alum), it really boils down to:

1) Performance. Obviously prefer W's but, even more-so, consistent competence and playing to capability.

No lectures needed about "that's sports", blah, blah, blah. I played, I know, off games, etc. I'm talking about the same shit, year after year, that it's to the point (for me, at least) that the only consistency is what is not going to happen / which one is not going to reliably perform.

No single outs but, in general ...
How many years have we heard what GREAT shooters we have, only to routinely watch terrible shooting performances that are inexplicable by the "had an off game"?
How many years (decades) have we watched below average to just plain bad defense, along with many other basic fundamentals (pick-n-roll; box out and go get the damn rebound; move the ball inside out through the air)?
This is especially the case with Fran's fast system. I get it, it can be fun to watch but if you're gonna do it ya gotta have the guys do it.

In Good Co frequently references Fran's accomplishments as far as making the tourney and developing high caliber players. Duly noted. However, I'm of the opinion that, in basketball, if you have consensus All-American players - even 1 - do as well as you do in the Big10-ish (even win the tourney), which means you also have a decent enough supporting cast (i.e. Bohannon + Garza + Murrays + Mac boys) you should be able to get to the S16 and you certainly can't piss away a 1st round game to Richmond.

Those years were disappointing, missed opportunities. We are now getting to 3-4 years removed and that seed of waning enthusiasm is starting to bear fruit.
** Side note ** I had little expectation for this year but see a lot of reason to be excited about Harding, Freeman and (hopefully) Koch over the next couple years. None the less, it's going to mean WINS and hearing their names as they become stars to get fan attention.

2) Convenience. Between the weeknight schedule, weather and that the reasons above, for someone who would have to travel, it's just too easy to watch on TV.

As far as generating local and student enthusiasm, consider the audience. It might be lame excuses for some to accept but I think students / culture is different from the 80's when I attended. They need ease and excitement to motivate them. Right now, there's neither.

I think the ease would be satisfied by relocation. Fantastic idea to relocate to replace the OC Mall - which looks to have become a ghost town that is little more than a shelter and a piss stop between the ped mall and the games. It would be a prime spot that is a few blocks from where most students live and go for entertainment. They wouldn't have to wait for Cambus. They wouldn't have to pay for Uber. They could maintain the pre-game buzz from bar to game (Only on weekend games, kids!;))

That extends to paying public. Right now, if you go to Carver (which I'm planning to do next Friday for Ohio State), you have to find a place to eat, probably somewhere in Coralville - because it's closer. You have to get back in the car and find a place to park. Carver lots are a half-hour in traffic to get in, an ordeal to find a space, a long walk to the arena and and hour to get out. I usually grab a spot in someone's lawn, which is an adventure itself navigating the 1-lane neighborhood roads near Carver and will be even worse with piles of snow obscuring entry ways and taking up spaces. I'd love to be able to park, walk to eats / drinks, check out campus, maybe visit the book-n-crook, walk to the game AND would probably hang a bit after the game before heading home.

Right now, Carver is like going to Field of Dreams ... Cool to go to the event but there's no amenities around it. You either have to create a ped-mall west or move it to where the action is. Either way, if you build it, they will come!

Excitement would be satisfied by a couple things:
-- The #1, do it now with little to no effort is the long-stated no-brainer ... swap the students for the blue-hairs.
-- More difficult is #2 ... You have to have "star" power. You need a Garza, Murray ... or, God willing, a Caitlin Clark! If you don't have that then you have to have a team that plays well and gets WINS.

Which brings me full circle ... :confused:

These are just product and convenience issues that address Iowa's attendance. So many fixables - I hope it doesn't take the U elders as long to figure out as it took to simply paint the water tower.
However, there's still other challenges that basketball, itself, faces ...
-- It's not football.
-- A fifth of it's schedule takes place when students aren't around.
-- There is no other sport more poorly / inconsistently / subjectively officiated and where officiating can have such a negative impact on the flow and outcome of the game. This is especially true in the Big-10-ish.

If you made it this far, thanx for reading. Please understand it's just this old Hawkeye fan's 99 + 2 cents. No need to go ad-hominem if you disagree. Go Hawks!
Good stuff.
 
Let’s look up the stats. Rank order of men’s basketball attendance averages per game in the Big Ten for last season. Maybe that would change my mind. Or yours.
You go to most of the games. How is the crowd participation. Don't construe attendance figures with crowd impact.

I'll be there on February 17th and will get to judge for nyself.
 
You go to most of the games. How is the crowd participation. Don't construe attendance figures with crowd impact.

I'll be there on February 17th and will get to judge for nyself.
Generally speaking only, my opinion is that the fans who are there are quite knowledgeable and react appropriately. That said, a lot of the discussion here has been about attendance, so I would like to start there.

BTW, Maryland took our fans out of the game with their snail pace style. Tough to overcome. Crowd was really active down the final stretch as you would expect. Reaction when we were on D was impressive.
 
Some good points. And I've been on the "replace the Old Capitol Mall with a downtown arena" train since I joined this forum in early 2018.

I think losing to Richmond in the first round after winning the BTT was a bounce from which we have yet to recover. We could have used a Friday draw that year, or at least a Thursday evening draw, after playing four in four but got neither. Of course, neither did Richmond.

Not getting out of the first weekend the year before as a two seed was another crippling blow. We had Garza, Wieskamp, both Murrays, both Mac boys, JBo, and a solid supporting cast and still couldn't advance.

Carver, for the 5,298th time, isn't the issue. They pack em in for the women and for Wrestling.

I think fans want to see a deep tourney run, something that a fan born after 1985 or so has yet to experience. T-Rex dinosaurs might have just as well been roaming the earth since out last sweet sixteen run. Add to that the fact that the women have a once in a lifetime game transcending talent, that there is no true star power on the men's team anymore, that Fran's "fire and passion" is too often misguided, that his kids have unfairly been made the faces of the team, and it's a perfect storm of growing apathy. Now add on that his youngest doesn't want to play here and then was involved in a tragic off court accident...

....February could get ugly. Finding consistency on the court, playing like they did two weeks ago, would be a good place to start regaining some equity. Peyton's public on the court dressing down of Freeman was not a good sign. He is always the one preaching "stick together" after tough losses and then he goes and does that.
Like most of these kinds of situations, it's likely a combination of many factors.

Carver certainly isn't solely to blame, but it has always had its limitations as a venue. Yes, it gets packed for the women's games and for wrestling, but we are talking about a perennially top three wrestling program with national championship aspirations and a current nationally relevant women's basketball team with a truly generational player that is packing in fans everywhere at an unprecedented rate. Probably not fair analogies.

For whatever reason, Carver lacks character and atmosphere. Anyone who has ever attended a game at Hilton knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's night and day. Part of it is the location of the students, but I think that the design itself also is partly to blame. The pit design means that there is nothing "statuesque" about it, nothing visually to draw your eyes. Walking up to, say, The Palestra or Butler's Finkle Fieldhouse, has a whole different visceral vibe. Going to Carver simply doesn't have the feel of going someplace iconic.

You brought up an interesting point about the Richmond game. Indeed, there was something about that game that is lingering. It was like a balloon deflated; a watershed moment for the program under Fran. You could almost feel the fanbase collectively sigh, drop their heads, turn around and walk away. It can happen to any program, but when fans are repeatedly gut-punched after developing excitement and high expectations, it takes a toll.
 
Like most of these kinds of situations, it's likely a combination of many factors.

Carver certainly isn't solely to blame, but it has always had its limitations as a venue. Yes, it gets packed for the women's games and for wrestling, but we are talking about a perennially top three wrestling program with national championship aspirations and a current nationally relevant women's basketball team with a truly generational player that is packing in fans everywhere at an unprecedented rate. Probably not fair analogies.

For whatever reason, Carver lacks character and atmosphere. Anyone who has ever attended a game at Hilton knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's night and day. Part of it is the location of the students, but I think that the design itself also is partly to blame. The pit design means that there is nothing "statuesque" about it, nothing visually to draw your eyes. Walking up to, say, The Palestra or Butler's Finkle Fieldhouse, has a whole different visceral vibe. Going to Carver simply doesn't have the feel of going someplace iconic.

You brought up an interesting point about the Richmond game. Indeed, there was something about that game that is lingering. It was like a balloon deflated; a watershed moment for the program under Fran. You could almost feel the fanbase collectively sigh, drop their heads, turn around and walk away. It can happen to any program, but when fans are repeatedly gut-punched after developing excitement and high expectations, it takes a toll.
In three weeks I'm taking my brother in law and nephew, both life long Badger fans, for their first ever Carver visit. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when we approach the building and their looks say "What's this-you've gotta be kidding!"
 
Look around the league and you will see that not many teams in the league have that issue.

Did you see Northwestern vs Illinois Wednesday night? Electric atmosphere in what could still be considered, even after remodeling, a band box gym.

Do they even show the student section in games played at Carver? Look at how often they show student sections at other league games.


You are just furthering my point. We(fan base) are just making excuses on why we are not going to games. In your opinion, do you think a 100 million dollar renovation of Carver(which likely is going to happen) is going to change anything?
 
I read a lot of good talking points to put on the white board at the "retreat".

For an older guy, someone who loves the game of basketball and is a born-n-bred Hawkeye (also alum), it really boils down to:

1) Performance. Obviously prefer W's but, even more-so, consistent competence and playing to capability.

No lectures needed about "that's sports", blah, blah, blah. I played, I know, off games, etc. I'm talking about the same shit, year after year, that it's to the point (for me, at least) that the only consistency is what is not going to happen / which one is not going to reliably perform.

No single outs but, in general ...
How many years have we heard what GREAT shooters we have, only to routinely watch terrible shooting performances that are inexplicable by the "had an off game"?
How many years (decades) have we watched below average to just plain bad defense, along with many other basic fundamentals (pick-n-roll; box out and go get the damn rebound; move the ball inside out through the air)?
This is especially the case with Fran's fast system. I get it, it can be fun to watch but if you're gonna do it ya gotta have the guys do it.

In Good Co frequently references Fran's accomplishments as far as making the tourney and developing high caliber players. Duly noted. However, I'm of the opinion that, in basketball, if you have consensus All-American players - even 1 - do as well as you do in the Big10-ish (even win the tourney), which means you also have a decent enough supporting cast (i.e. Bohannon + Garza + Murrays + Mac boys) you should be able to get to the S16 and you certainly can't piss away a 1st round game to Richmond.

Those years were disappointing, missed opportunities. We are now getting to 3-4 years removed and that seed of waning enthusiasm is starting to bear fruit.
** Side note ** I had little expectation for this year but see a lot of reason to be excited about Harding, Freeman and (hopefully) Koch over the next couple years. None the less, it's going to mean WINS and hearing their names as they become stars to get fan attention.

2) Convenience. Between the weeknight schedule, weather and that the reasons above, for someone who would have to travel, it's just too easy to watch on TV.

As far as generating local and student enthusiasm, consider the audience. It might be lame excuses for some to accept but I think students / culture is different from the 80's when I attended. They need ease and excitement to motivate them. Right now, there's neither.

I think the ease would be satisfied by relocation. Fantastic idea to relocate to replace the OC Mall - which looks to have become a ghost town that is little more than a shelter and a piss stop between the ped mall and the games. It would be a prime spot that is a few blocks from where most students live and go for entertainment. They wouldn't have to wait for Cambus. They wouldn't have to pay for Uber. They could maintain the pre-game buzz from bar to game (Only on weekend games, kids!;))

That extends to paying public. Right now, if you go to Carver (which I'm planning to do next Friday for Ohio State), you have to find a place to eat, probably somewhere in Coralville - because it's closer. You have to get back in the car and find a place to park. Carver lots are a half-hour in traffic to get in, an ordeal to find a space, a long walk to the arena and and hour to get out. I usually grab a spot in someone's lawn, which is an adventure itself navigating the 1-lane neighborhood roads near Carver and will be even worse with piles of snow obscuring entry ways and taking up spaces. I'd love to be able to park, walk to eats / drinks, check out campus, maybe visit the book-n-crook, walk to the game AND would probably hang a bit after the game before heading home.

Right now, Carver is like going to Field of Dreams ... Cool to go to the event but there's no amenities around it. You either have to create a ped-mall west or move it to where the action is. Either way, if you build it, they will come!

Excitement would be satisfied by a couple things:
-- The #1, do it now with little to no effort is the long-stated no-brainer ... swap the students for the blue-hairs.
-- More difficult is #2 ... You have to have "star" power. You need a Garza, Murray ... or, God willing, a Caitlin Clark! If you don't have that then you have to have a team that plays well and gets WINS.

Which brings me full circle ... :confused:

These are just product and convenience issues that address Iowa's attendance. So many fixables - I hope it doesn't take the U elders as long to figure out as it took to simply paint the water tower.
However, there's still other challenges that basketball, itself, faces ...
-- It's not football.
-- A fifth of it's schedule takes place when students aren't around.
-- There is no other sport more poorly / inconsistently / subjectively officiated and where officiating can have such a negative impact on the flow and outcome of the game. This is especially true in the Big-10-ish.

If you made it this far, thanx for reading. Please understand it's just this old Hawkeye fan's 99 + 2 cents. No need to go ad-hominem if you disagree. Go Hawks!

My eyes are bleeding profusely
 
Look around the league and you will see that not many teams in the league have that issue.

Did you see Northwestern vs Illinois Wednesday night? Electric atmosphere in what could still be considered, even after remodeling, a band box gym.

Do they even show the student section in games played at Carver? Look at how often they show student sections at other league games.
Please look at the numbers and comment.
 
Fran fatigue

I have heard that term being thrown around quite this season. Tell me what that means.

There’s no Kirk fatigue.
There’s no Bluder fatigue.
There’s no Brands fatigue.

There is a portion of the fan base that have a hard time embracing him and are looking for any reason(excuse) not to go to games. Bury your head in the sand if you want because you don’t like the buzzword/terminology used to describe it.
Fatigue isn't just about time spent wearing their hats. It's that combined with where the program is. Frans teams have plateaued at a level most are frustrated with. They are good never great. High scoring yet never defending. Rob Howe can rinse and repeat his post game evaluation articles for damn near most games regardless of the opponent. Iowa is usually (not this yr) good enough to get into the dance but never good enough to advance to the second weekend. Those other coaches have programs in better places then Fran does.

Kirk has had his fair share of fatigue from fans just not to the same extent. Bluders real test will be post CC. And wrestling is just wrestling Brands couldn't mess that up if he tried.
 
Take away the few years from Lute and ONE season from Mr. Davis and Fran has given you exactly what Iowa has been the last 40+ years….average to slightly above, mixed in with the occasional good.

Everyone is making excuses for the lack of attendance as if Iowa is the only school that has to deal with these issues.
definitely not the only school dealing with this, but i imagine has to be one of the worst attended programs in the country that has been as good as Iowa has been the last 5 years. I don't even need to look it up, I know that it is.
 
definitely not the only school dealing with this, but i imagine has to be one of the worst attended programs in the country that has been as good as Iowa has been the last 5 years. I don't even need to look it up, I know that it is.
Apparently, no, you don’t know. Please look at the thread here on HN that summarizes Iowa‘s placement on the list of nationally ranked teams for average attendance In D-1.
(CHA Attendance )
 
Apparently, no, you don’t know. Please look at the thread here on HN that summarizes Iowa‘s placement on the list of nationally ranked teams for average attendance In D-1.
Huck - those are based on ticket sales, not the attendance of actual games. So, as much as we see eye to eye on so many Iowa related items, we do not on this. The attendance of Iowa basketball is an absolute problem for Iowa that even the most positive Iowa fan has to open their eyes and see. It's bad.
 
Apparently, no, you don’t know. Please look at the thread here on HN that summarizes Iowa‘s placement on the list of nationally ranked teams for average attendance In D-1.
(CHA Attendance )
If you think this attendance is ranked anywhere near the top of D-1 basketball, then I can't help you. You go to every game, you see it in person. I live 5 hours away. This was for Maryland, a game Iowa sorely needed the crowd support to get them over the top.

GEpWGEqXsAAAXs6
 
Huck - those are based on ticket sales, not the attendance of actual games. So, as much as we see eye to eye on so many Iowa related items, we do not on this. The attendance of Iowa basketball is an absolute problem for Iowa that even the most positive Iowa fan has to open their eyes and see. It's bad.
All of the teams that were ranked and noted in that post were compiled with the same set of assumptions. All of them were ticket sales, not actual attendance. I think that makes the rankings apples to apples. If we are 24th nationally relative to all D-1 schools, it is what it is. I don‘t think actual attendance numbers are available.

BTW, I am very frustrated with the crowd size. I have a prime positioned seat and attend all the home games. The empty seats around me with great views are Astonishing. They were all occupied for the Purdue game. Maryland? Nope.
 
All of the teams that were ranked and noted in that post were compiled with the same set of assumptions. All of them were ticket sales, not actual attendance. I think that makes the rankings apples to apples. If we are 24th nationally relative to all D-1 schools, it is what it is. I don‘t think actual attendance numbers are available.

BTW, I am very frustrated with the crowd size. I have a prime positioned seat and attend all the home games. The empty seats around me with great views are Astonishing. They were all occupied for the Purdue game. Maryland? Nope.
You are the man Huck, I appreciate that you attend every game.
 

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