HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
This is 100% what we must consider. Let’s worry about the made up, new term,
i.e. , “disconnect.”? What does that even mean?
Maryland game thread
- Thread starter trj
- Start date
i.e. , “disconnect.”? What does that even mean?
trj
Well-Known Member
@Northside Hawk is a University of Iowa alum and knows the history of Iowa athletics better than 99.9% of us and he can’t totally wrap his arms around Fran. So give me a better word than “disconnect”. Tell me why this fan base doesn’t embrace the school’s all-time winningest coach.
There’s only two players you need to keep Dix & freeman the rest can be replace .
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
We'll have to agree to disagree here.
Perkins came alive somewhat in spurts in the second half but in the first half he had uncharacteristic ball control issues and ultimately spent more time on the bench than what is normal for him. Even the announcers were saying that he needed to step up. Sandfort and Krikke likewise looked out of rhythm and had repeated unforced TOs. Krikke also really struggled with defensive position and rebounds (neither necessarily consider a strength for him, but with Freeman battling foul trouble we needed him to ramp up his intensity).
All three are very valuable players and have looked great at times, but I think the team is still trying to find that consistent go-to guy that they are used to having, especially when opponents play aggressive defense as Maryland did last night.
Gander Hawk
Well-Known Member
The next class has two top 150 players, I wouldn't want to lose the younger Sandfort or Harding either.
What do you disagree with?
I watched and was a rough game to give away like that, no scoring for almost 6 minutes to end a game you lead almost from start to finish. Shoulda coulda. I sure hope they can rebound and it appears they are close. Losing Freeman turned out to be a big deal, if not I'm nearly certain we win. Sandfort, I'd be using him more sparingly. Almost no offense, and too many missed shots.
Some are not coming back they are seniors & we need more athletes.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
BTW: I follow Northside closely and agree that he is a really good contributor. I will let you know that I, too, am an Iowa alum, born and raised in Iowa as a Hawkeye fan, and saw my first Hawk football game at age 7. That would be 70 years ago. I have had season football and basketball tickets through multiple coaches well before KF and Fran. Ralph Miller’s 6 pack, Lute Olson, George Raveling, Mr. Davis, Stevie, Lackluster…and football pre Bob Cummings and Frank Lauterbur.
I coached football at Prairie and Kennedy for a number of years. Was hired by Jerry Mauren. I assume you know who that is? So, I have a pretty good sense of Iowa athletics. I even sat on the grass at what is now Kinnick and in the worst seats in the world in the old field house. (But, damn. It was loud)
I coached football at Prairie and Kennedy for a number of years. Was hired by Jerry Mauren. I assume you know who that is? So, I have a pretty good sense of Iowa athletics. I even sat on the grass at what is now Kinnick and in the worst seats in the world in the old field house. (But, damn. It was loud)
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Just watch Fran’s post game analysis of the MD game, along with the player interviews, and that is my view of the problems with your post.
Been to a lot of games this season?
If I remember to later on today I'll check out Frans post game I'm sure it's on you tube somewhere.
No but I've watched every game except a couple that were on that damn BTN plus thing.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Huck, that's a legit question that you don't have to take as an offensive slight at Fran. Can you explain to us, Iowa fans, why the basketball team, who has been beloved by many of us for 40+ years has less than 6000 people in a place that holds 15,500 for Big Ten games? The wrestling program is very supported. The women's basketball program is very supported. In fact, I would go on record to say that the Women's hoops team and men's wrestling teams might have the BEST enviroment in their respective sports and last time I checked, those games happened at the same place our men's basketball team plays.
Fran has won a lot. He's Iowa's all time winningest coach. He's won a Big Ten Tournament Title. He's produced NBA talent, he's produced the BEST player of ALL TIME at the school who won the Wooden. If there isn't a disconnect between the fans and Fran, then what do YOU think is the reason that our barn is empty all but a couple games every season? I don't buy that the product isn't good enough. You've said a ton of times yourself that Carver as a facility is fine (I don't agree, but that's ok) - so, what in your mind is the reason that we aren't even half full for the men's games? As i've pointed out. Northwestern - FULL - Nebraska - FULL - both of those teams have NO historical success to lean back on. IL, who IMO, Iowa has been better than for several years - FULL. ISU - Full - Creighton - FULL. Rutgers, FULL - Maryland FULL -
Iowa basketball has advanced to 4 straight NCAAs (eligible for 5 straight), finished .500 or better in 10 of last 11 B1G seasons & multiple All-Americans. Yet, 97 teams have a Sweet 16 since Iowa's last trip 25 years ago; -Iowa is 5th in the B1G in the last 5 years for wins. I can go on and on and on and on about the great things Fran has done and yet, still empty.
Every where around Iowa is full - all of Iowa's peers are full (except maybe Penn State). So I guess that's why were all are here discussing it. It's not a matter of trashing the program or the team or the players or Fran. We're all trying to figure out what the disconnect is between Iowa basketball and it's fans. I think it's fair to ask if it's Fran at this point.
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thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
This last game is History
In The Past
Time to move on and root for The Hawks
We have seen of what they are capable
Gotta give them credit for fighting back despite the fact
that maryland had 8 players on the floor
In The Past
Time to move on and root for The Hawks
We have seen of what they are capable
Gotta give them credit for fighting back despite the fact
that maryland had 8 players on the floor
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HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
In no way do I pretend to understand the failure of our program to draw big crowds consistently. Key word is “consistently.”
I have attended some near sellout games with fan support at an amazing level. The Purdue game was a great example..The crowd never gave up. There have been other good examples. (I have had season ticks in recent years through Stevie, Lackluster, and now Fran). I do go back to season ticks with Ralph, Lute, George, and Mr. Davis, btw.
I have indicated my position as to why we are disappointed in the fan attendance, and I am part of that group.
Just to reiterate, TV is the villain. It is winter. It is cold. It costs $$ To come to CHA. And I can drink cheap beer and pee during commercials. And: Students don’t go to games when they are on break. Duh. Other than fans from the Corridor, mid week games are doomed. Late night games, even on weekends, are not conducive to big crowds. Family time, other priorities, clearly hit weekend attendance.
The opponent we face is a big deal. Highly ranked, yup. Traditional rivals, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Nebraska. Big time programs: MSU, Indiana, OSU, maybe Michigan, or BT teams in general, rather than Western Michigan. ( Those are necessary games) I, personally, go to all of them to see backups, new recruits, and just love to watch the Hawks.
So, I am not going to apologize or get on board with silly terms like disconnect. I don’t take those who use that term as bashing the players, or even Fran.
My view has absolutely nothing to do with defending Fran. Is it fair to question Fran’s impact on fan support? Of course. But I am not going to take terms like “disconnect” seriously. It is simply irrelevant.
trj
Well-Known Member
Fran fatigue
I have heard that term being thrown around quite a bit this season. Tell me what that means.
There’s no Kirk fatigue.
There’s no Bluder fatigue.
There’s no Brands fatigue.
There is a portion of the fan base that have a hard time embracing him and are looking for any reason(excuse) not to go to games. Bury your head in the sand if you want because you don’t like the buzzword/terminology used to describe it.
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trj
Well-Known Member
So Iowa is the only fan base that has great televisions and a limited amount of time and discretionary income to go to games. Got it.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
I read a lot of good talking points to put on the white board at the "retreat".
For an older guy, someone who loves the game of basketball and is a born-n-bred Hawkeye (also alum), it really boils down to:
1) Performance. Obviously prefer W's but, even more-so, consistent competence and playing to capability.
No lectures needed about "that's sports", blah, blah, blah. I played, I know, off games, etc. I'm talking about the same shit, year after year, that it's to the point (for me, at least) that the only consistency is what is not going to happen / which one is not going to reliably perform.
No single outs but, in general ...
How many years have we heard what GREAT shooters we have, only to routinely watch terrible shooting performances that are inexplicable by the "had an off game"?
How many years (decades) have we watched below average to just plain bad defense, along with many other basic fundamentals (pick-n-roll; box out and go get the damn rebound; move the ball inside out through the air)?
This is especially the case with Fran's fast system. I get it, it can be fun to watch but if you're gonna do it ya gotta have the guys do it.
In Good Co frequently references Fran's accomplishments as far as making the tourney and developing high caliber players. Duly noted. However, I'm of the opinion that, in basketball, if you have consensus All-American players - even 1 - do as well as you do in the Big10-ish (even win the tourney), which means you also have a decent enough supporting cast (i.e. Bohannon + Garza + Murrays + Mac boys) you should be able to get to the S16 and you certainly can't piss away a 1st round game to Richmond.
Those years were disappointing, missed opportunities. We are now getting to 3-4 years removed and that seed of waning enthusiasm is starting to bear fruit.
** Side note ** I had little expectation for this year but see a lot of reason to be excited about Harding, Freeman and (hopefully) Koch over the next couple years. None the less, it's going to mean WINS and hearing their names as they become stars to get fan attention.
2) Convenience. Between the weeknight schedule, weather and that the reasons above, for someone who would have to travel, it's just too easy to watch on TV.
As far as generating local and student enthusiasm, consider the audience. It might be lame excuses for some to accept but I think students / culture is different from the 80's when I attended. They need ease and excitement to motivate them. Right now, there's neither.
I think the ease would be satisfied by relocation. Fantastic idea to relocate to replace the OC Mall - which looks to have become a ghost town that is little more than a shelter and a piss stop between the ped mall and the games. It would be a prime spot that is a few blocks from where most students live and go for entertainment. They wouldn't have to wait for Cambus. They wouldn't have to pay for Uber. They could maintain the pre-game buzz from bar to game (Only on weekend games, kids!
)
That extends to paying public. Right now, if you go to Carver (which I'm planning to do next Friday for Ohio State), you have to find a place to eat, probably somewhere in Coralville - because it's closer. You have to get back in the car and find a place to park. Carver lots are a half-hour in traffic to get in, an ordeal to find a space, a long walk to the arena and and hour to get out. I usually grab a spot in someone's lawn, which is an adventure itself navigating the 1-lane neighborhood roads near Carver and will be even worse with piles of snow obscuring entry ways and taking up spaces. I'd love to be able to park, walk to eats / drinks, check out campus, maybe visit the book-n-crook, walk to the game AND would probably hang a bit after the game before heading home.
Right now, Carver is like going to Field of Dreams ... Cool to go to the event but there's no amenities around it. You either have to create a ped-mall west or move it to where the action is. Either way, if you build it, they will come!
Excitement would be satisfied by a couple things:
-- The #1, do it now with little to no effort is the long-stated no-brainer ... swap the students for the blue-hairs.
-- More difficult is #2 ... You have to have "star" power. You need a Garza, Murray ... or, God willing, a Caitlin Clark! If you don't have that then you have to have a team that plays well and gets WINS.
Which brings me full circle ...
These are just product and convenience issues that address Iowa's attendance. So many fixables - I hope it doesn't take the U elders as long to figure out as it took to simply paint the water tower.
However, there's still other challenges that basketball, itself, faces ...
-- It's not football.
-- A fifth of it's schedule takes place when students aren't around.
-- There is no other sport more poorly / inconsistently / subjectively officiated and where officiating can have such a negative impact on the flow and outcome of the game. This is especially true in the Big-10-ish.
If you made it this far, thanx for reading. Please understand it's just this old Hawkeye fan's 99 + 2 cents. No need to go ad-hominem if you disagree. Go Hawks!
For an older guy, someone who loves the game of basketball and is a born-n-bred Hawkeye (also alum), it really boils down to:
1) Performance. Obviously prefer W's but, even more-so, consistent competence and playing to capability.
No lectures needed about "that's sports", blah, blah, blah. I played, I know, off games, etc. I'm talking about the same shit, year after year, that it's to the point (for me, at least) that the only consistency is what is not going to happen / which one is not going to reliably perform.
No single outs but, in general ...
How many years have we heard what GREAT shooters we have, only to routinely watch terrible shooting performances that are inexplicable by the "had an off game"?
How many years (decades) have we watched below average to just plain bad defense, along with many other basic fundamentals (pick-n-roll; box out and go get the damn rebound; move the ball inside out through the air)?
This is especially the case with Fran's fast system. I get it, it can be fun to watch but if you're gonna do it ya gotta have the guys do it.
In Good Co frequently references Fran's accomplishments as far as making the tourney and developing high caliber players. Duly noted. However, I'm of the opinion that, in basketball, if you have consensus All-American players - even 1 - do as well as you do in the Big10-ish (even win the tourney), which means you also have a decent enough supporting cast (i.e. Bohannon + Garza + Murrays + Mac boys) you should be able to get to the S16 and you certainly can't piss away a 1st round game to Richmond.
Those years were disappointing, missed opportunities. We are now getting to 3-4 years removed and that seed of waning enthusiasm is starting to bear fruit.
** Side note ** I had little expectation for this year but see a lot of reason to be excited about Harding, Freeman and (hopefully) Koch over the next couple years. None the less, it's going to mean WINS and hearing their names as they become stars to get fan attention.
2) Convenience. Between the weeknight schedule, weather and that the reasons above, for someone who would have to travel, it's just too easy to watch on TV.
As far as generating local and student enthusiasm, consider the audience. It might be lame excuses for some to accept but I think students / culture is different from the 80's when I attended. They need ease and excitement to motivate them. Right now, there's neither.
I think the ease would be satisfied by relocation. Fantastic idea to relocate to replace the OC Mall - which looks to have become a ghost town that is little more than a shelter and a piss stop between the ped mall and the games. It would be a prime spot that is a few blocks from where most students live and go for entertainment. They wouldn't have to wait for Cambus. They wouldn't have to pay for Uber. They could maintain the pre-game buzz from bar to game (Only on weekend games, kids!
) That extends to paying public. Right now, if you go to Carver (which I'm planning to do next Friday for Ohio State), you have to find a place to eat, probably somewhere in Coralville - because it's closer. You have to get back in the car and find a place to park. Carver lots are a half-hour in traffic to get in, an ordeal to find a space, a long walk to the arena and and hour to get out. I usually grab a spot in someone's lawn, which is an adventure itself navigating the 1-lane neighborhood roads near Carver and will be even worse with piles of snow obscuring entry ways and taking up spaces. I'd love to be able to park, walk to eats / drinks, check out campus, maybe visit the book-n-crook, walk to the game AND would probably hang a bit after the game before heading home.
Right now, Carver is like going to Field of Dreams ... Cool to go to the event but there's no amenities around it. You either have to create a ped-mall west or move it to where the action is. Either way, if you build it, they will come!
Excitement would be satisfied by a couple things:
-- The #1, do it now with little to no effort is the long-stated no-brainer ... swap the students for the blue-hairs.
-- More difficult is #2 ... You have to have "star" power. You need a Garza, Murray ... or, God willing, a Caitlin Clark! If you don't have that then you have to have a team that plays well and gets WINS.
Which brings me full circle ...
These are just product and convenience issues that address Iowa's attendance. So many fixables - I hope it doesn't take the U elders as long to figure out as it took to simply paint the water tower.
However, there's still other challenges that basketball, itself, faces ...
-- It's not football.
-- A fifth of it's schedule takes place when students aren't around.
-- There is no other sport more poorly / inconsistently / subjectively officiated and where officiating can have such a negative impact on the flow and outcome of the game. This is especially true in the Big-10-ish.
If you made it this far, thanx for reading. Please understand it's just this old Hawkeye fan's 99 + 2 cents. No need to go ad-hominem if you disagree. Go Hawks!
trj
Well-Known Member
I read a lot of good talking points to put on the white board at the "retreat".
For an older guy, someone who loves the game of basketball and is a born-n-bred Hawkeye (also alum), it really boils down to:
1) Performance. Obviously prefer W's but, even more-so, consistent competence and playing to capability.
No lectures needed about "that's sports", blah, blah, blah. I played, I know, off games, etc. I'm talking about the same shit, year after year, that it's to the point (for me, at least) that the only consistency is what is not going to happen / which one is not going to reliably perform.
No single outs but, in general ...
How many years have we heard what GREAT shooters we have, only to routinely watch terrible shooting performances that are inexplicable by the "had an off game"?
How many years (decades) have we watched below average to just plain bad defense, along with many other basic fundamentals (pick-n-roll; box out and go get the damn rebound; move the ball inside out through the air)?
This is especially the case with Fran's fast system. I get it, it can be fun to watch but if you're gonna do it ya gotta have the guys do it.
In Good Co frequently references Fran's accomplishments as far as making the tourney and developing high caliber players. Duly noted. However, I'm of the opinion that, in basketball, if you have consensus All-American players - even 1 - do as well as you do in the Big10-ish (even win the tourney), which means you also have a decent enough supporting cast (i.e. Bohannon + Garza + Murrays + Mac boys) you should be able to get to the S16 and you certainly can't piss away a 1st round game to Richmond.
Those years were disappointing, missed opportunities. We are now getting to 3-4 years removed and that seed of waning enthusiasm is starting to bear fruit.
** Side note ** I had little expectation for this year but see a lot of reason to be excited about Harding, Freeman and (hopefully) Koch over the next couple years. None the less, it's going to mean WINS and hearing their names as they become stars to get fan attention.
2) Convenience. Between the weeknight schedule, weather and that the reasons above, for someone who would have to travel, it's just too easy to watch on TV.
As far as generating local and student enthusiasm, consider the audience. It might be lame excuses for some to accept but I think students / culture is different from the 80's when I attended. They need ease and excitement to motivate them. Right now, there's neither.
I think the ease would be satisfied by relocation. Fantastic idea to relocate to replace the OC Mall - which looks to have become a ghost town that is little more than a shelter and a piss stop between the ped mall and the games. It would be a prime spot that is a few blocks from where most students live and go for entertainment. They wouldn't have to wait for Cambus. They wouldn't have to pay for Uber. They could maintain the pre-game buzz from bar to game (Only on weekend games, kids!
That extends to paying public. Right now, if you go to Carver (which I'm planning to do next Friday for Ohio State), you have to find a place to eat, probably somewhere in Coralville - because it's closer. You have to get back in the car and find a place to park. Carver lots are a half-hour in traffic to get in, an ordeal to find a space, a long walk to the arena and and hour to get out. I usually grab a spot in someone's lawn, which is an adventure itself navigating the 1-lane neighborhood roads near Carver and will be even worse with piles of snow obscuring entry ways and taking up spaces. I'd love to be able to park, walk to eats / drinks, check out campus, maybe visit the book-n-crook, walk to the game AND would probably hang a bit after the game before heading home.
Right now, Carver is like going to Field of Dreams ... Cool to go to the event but there's no amenities around it. You either have to create a ped-mall west or move it to where the action is. Either way, if you build it, they will come!
Excitement would be satisfied by a couple things:
-- The #1, do it now with little to no effort is the long-stated no-brainer ... swap the students for the blue-hairs.
-- More difficult is #2 ... You have to have "star" power. You need a Garza, Murray ... or, God willing, a Caitlin Clark! If you don't have that then you have to have a team that plays well and gets WINS.
Which brings me full circle ...
These are just product and convenience issues that address Iowa's attendance. So many fixables - I hope it doesn't take the U elders as long to figure out as it took to simply paint the water tower.
However, there's still other challenges that basketball, itself, faces ...
-- It's not football.
-- A fifth of it's schedule takes place when students aren't around.
-- There is no other sport more poorly / inconsistently / subjectively officiated and where officiating can have such a negative impact on the flow and outcome of the game. This is especially true in the Big-10-ish.
If you made it this far, thanx for reading. Please understand it's just this old Hawkeye fan's 99 + 2 cents. No need to go ad-hominem if you disagree. Go Hawks!
Take away the few years from Lute and ONE season from Mr. Davis and Fran has given you exactly what Iowa has been the last 40+ years….average to slightly above, mixed in with the occasional good.
Everyone is making excuses for the lack of attendance as if Iowa is the only school that has to deal with these issues.
