Luka vs Zion

[KCTrainer]

Garza and POY talk is not hype. Zion Williamson was a game changer last season. I watched nearly every Duke game and he was an unstoppable force nearly every night. That being said he averaged 22.6 pts and 8.9 rbs per game last season over 33 games played. With 26 games down Garza is averaging 23.7 pts and 9.7 rbs per game. No he does not put up the explosive dunks that Zion did, but from a production standpoint he is statistically better than last years POY. Zion had slightly higher FG% but man these stats do not lie. Garza is more than deserving of this award.

 

[hawks23]

This is interesting. I wouldn’t have guessed this. Good stuff. I found myself watching every Duke game last year also. Garza doesn’t seem to have an off night and is so consistent. He just keeps going to work 100% every play. So much fun to watch. To play 100% and in control is a valuable skill that I never learned.

 

[mopkins]

From a straight stats standpoint, sure they're comparable. But Duke had RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish as well as Tre Jones and Marques Bolden. Guess my point is Zion was a dominant force on a team full of NBA talent. He was the greatest player on a team full of great players. Garza is the greatest player on a team of D1 players.

Its sad but true that if Iowa was 14-2 in the Big Ten right now Garza would easily be NPOY. But they're 10-6 and have some bad losses to Depaul and Nebraska. Fair or not, its the way it is. I still think Garza is the front runner, and Vegas mostly agrees

As a side note its pretty embarrassing that Duke team lost 6 games and didnt make the final four

 

[hawkeyebob62]

It's a matter of color--the color of each player's jersey.

An Iowa player needs to average a minimum 8 ppg and 2 rpg more than a Duke player.

 

[Fryowa]

Garza and POY talk is not hype. Zion Williamson was a game changer last season. I watched nearly every Duke game and he was an unstoppable force nearly every night. That being said he averaged 22.6 pts and 8.9 rbs per game last season over 33 games played. With 26 games down Garza is averaging 23.7 pts and 9.7 rbs per game. No he does not put up the explosive dunks that Zion did, but from a production standpoint he is statistically better than last years POY. Zion had slightly higher FG% but man these stats do not lie. Garza is more than deserving of this award.

Uhhhh....wut?

From a straight stats standpoint, sure they're comparable. But Duke had RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish as well as Tre Jones and Marques Bolden. Guess my point is Zion was a dominant force on a team full of NBA talent. He was the greatest player on a team full of great players. Garza is the greatest player on a team of D1 players.

This.

I hate Duke and I hate Mike Krzecsyewscrsvkcrski, but comparing 23 pts a game on an Iowa squad vs 22 pts a game on a Duke team is completely ridiculous. It's "I don't follow basketball" - level ridiculous.

Duke's starters were 4 freshman and a junior, and 4 of them bolted for the NBA. Tre Jones is the only one who stayed and he's gone after this year. Williamson's 22.6 pts and 8.9 rebounds came on a team with another guy who had 22.6 pts and 7.6 rebounds for god's sake.

And that's all in the ACC, which had 5 ranked teams at the end of the year and three of those ranked 1, 2, 3.

People gotta think before posting shit like that, it's taking nothing into context whatsoever.

 

[PCHawk]

Uhhhh....wut?
This.

I hate Duke and I hate Mike Krzecsyewscrsvkcrski, but comparing 23 pts a game on an Iowa squad vs 22 pts a game on a Duke team is completely ridiculous. It's "I don't follow basketball" - level ridiculous.

Duke's starters were 4 freshman and a junior, and 4 of them bolted for the NBA. Tre Jones is the only one who stayed and he's gone after this year. Williamson's 22.6 pts and 8.9 rebounds came on a team with another guy who had 22.6 pts and 7.6 rebounds for god's sake.

And that's all in the ACC, which had 5 ranked teams at the end of the year and three of those ranked 1, 2, 3.

People gotta think before posting shit like that, it's taking nothing into context whatsoever.

I dont know about all that. If I had to pick one guy to get me a bucket when I needed it, it would be extremely hard to choose between the two. Garza is THAT good at scoring. You are making the arguement that the ball got spread around more at Duke. But what about the arguement that teams can focus more on stopping Garza? The real question to help answer this is how many shots per game did both players average.

Dont take this post as me saying Garza is as good of a player as Zion. I would still take Zion fairly easily as an overall player. But as far as sheer scoring ability at the college level, its actually really close. And that's nuts.

 

[HawkeyeTech]

Uhhhh....wut?
This.

I hate Duke and I hate Mike Krzecsyewscrsvkcrski, but comparing 23 pts a game on an Iowa squad vs 22 pts a game on a Duke team is completely ridiculous. It's "I don't follow basketball" - level ridiculous.

Duke's starters were 4 freshman and a junior, and 4 of them bolted for the NBA. Tre Jones is the only one who stayed and he's gone after this year. Williamson's 22.6 pts and 8.9 rebounds came on a team with another guy who had 22.6 pts and 7.6 rebounds for god's sake.

And that's all in the ACC, which had 5 ranked teams at the end of the year and three of those ranked 1, 2, 3.

People gotta think before posting shit like that, it's taking nothing into context whatsoever.

Do you mean context like having to score 24 points a game while being at a minimum double teamed because of being the only reliable scoring option? Or context like having four other players who need to be guarded so Zion could play one on one? Think before you post.

 

[EstronHawkKing]

I always felt that Zion is the next Charles Barkley, but stronger and more athletic. Garza is the next Kevin McHale.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Zion wasn't really the focal point of their O either. That other lefty they had that went to the Knicks seemed to have the ball most of the time. Zion I feel if they would have force fed him touches could have dominated more then he did. He shared the spot light because he didn't need to dominate it. He had all the fame he could handle as it was and they were winning. So he didn't care if he was putting up stupid numbers or not. He almost did that on accident. If Zion was at Iowa or anywhere really and being force fed touches he'd do monster things. He was a man amongst boys out there he just is

 

[mopkins]

I always felt that Zion is the next Charles Barkley, but stronger and more athletic. Garza is the next Kevin McHale.

I still can't find a decent comparable for Garza, but McHale never shot any 3s, and that's a huge part of Luka's game.

I still keep landing on Frank Kaminsky. Whats scary is if you compare Luka's junior year to Frank's junior year...Luka is putting Frank to shame. However I wouldn't be shocked to see Luka's numbers dip a bit next year with Bohannon and others a full strength.

 

[KCTrainer]

From a straight stats standpoint, sure they're comparable. But Duke had RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish as well as Tre Jones and Marques Bolden. Guess my point is Zion was a dominant force on a team full of NBA talent. He was the greatest player on a team full of great players. Garza is the greatest player on a team of D1 players.

Its sad but true that if Iowa was 14-2 in the Big Ten right now Garza would easily be NPOY. But they're 10-6 and have some bad losses to Depaul and Nebraska. Fair or not, its the way it is. I still think Garza is the front runner, and Vegas mostly agrees

As a side note its pretty embarrassing that Duke team lost 6 games and didnt make the final four

I get what you’re saying but that Duke team lost to a Boston College Team that went 5-13 in the ACC. That’s as bad as any loss Iowa has and they had the best roster in the country. Duke does get the benefit of the doubt due to their blue blood status, coach K and Zion being so hyped out of high school. Like I said he deserved the award but Luka deserves it every bit as much being that he doesn’t have the players around him that Zion had and they are still in the hunt for a top 4 finish in the Big ten. Remember Zion’s Duke team finished 3rd in the ACC regular season.

 

[KCTrainer]

Uhhhh....wut?
This.

I hate Duke and I hate Mike Krzecsyewscrsvkcrski, but comparing 23 pts a game on an Iowa squad vs 22 pts a game on a Duke team is completely ridiculous. It's "I don't follow basketball" - level ridiculous.

Duke's starters were 4 freshman and a junior, and 4 of them bolted for the NBA. Tre Jones is the only one who stayed and he's gone after this year. Williamson's 22.6 pts and 8.9 rebounds came on a team with another guy who had 22.6 pts and 7.6 rebounds for god's sake.

And that's all in the ACC, which had 5 ranked teams at the end of the year and three of those ranked 1, 2, 3.

People gotta think before posting shit like that, it's taking nothing into context whatsoever.

Yea I definitely don’t follow basketball. I only watched every Duke game last year and live in North Carolina (ACC country). It’s about importance to a teams success. Who would be in bigger trouble without that player. 2018-2019 Duke loaded with lottery picks or 2019-2020 Iowa with a total of 7-8 competent players on the roster who aren’t injured? Hmmm

 

[KCTrainer]

Do you mean context like having to score 24 points a game while being at a minimum double teamed because of being the only reliable scoring option? Or context like having four other players who need to be guarded so Zion could play one on one? Think before you post.

This guy gets it!

 

[KCTrainer]

I still can't find a decent comparable for Garza, but McHale never shot any 3s, and that's a huge part of Luka's game.

I still keep landing on Frank Kaminsky. Whats scary is if you compare Luka's junior year to Frank's junior year...Luka is putting Frank to shame. However I wouldn't be shocked to see Luka's numbers dip a bit next year with Bohannon and others a full strength.

I don’t think we will find out. Garza has no reason to stay after this season. Can’t get much better at this level. Whether that means leaving for the NBA or going in drafted and heading to Europe and making six figures. I say get paid!

 

[PCHawk]

I don’t think we will find out. Garza has no reason to stay after this season. Can’t get much better at this level. Whether that means leaving for the NBA or going in drafted and heading to Europe and making six figures. I say get paid!

Sure he can get much better. He already has once with a full off season to work hard. If he does it again, he will almost no doubt get noticeably better again.

 

[PCHawk]

I'd be willing to be almost everything I have that White wouldn't trade his senior year at Iowa for one more year of making money in Europe.

 

[mopkins]

I get what you’re saying but that Duke team lost to a Boston College Team that went 5-13 in the ACC. That’s as bad as any loss Iowa has and they had the best roster in the country. Duke does get the benefit of the doubt due to their blue blood status, coach K and Zion being so hyped out of high school. Like I said he deserved the award but Luka deserves it every bit as much being that he doesn’t have the players around him that Zion had and they are still in the hunt for a top 4 finish in the Big ten. Remember Zion’s Duke team finished 3rd in the ACC regular season.

Unfortunately the POY award is super political and team success based. Past 5 POY's....

Zion - 1 seed
Brunson - 1 seed
Mason - 1 seed
Hield - 2 seed
Kaminsky - 1 seed

Iowa likely won't even be a 4 seed.

 

[PCHawk]

I still can't find a decent comparable for Garza, but McHale never shot any 3s, and that's a huge part of Luka's game.

I still keep landing on Frank Kaminsky. Whats scary is if you compare Luka's junior year to Frank's junior year...Luka is putting Frank to shame. However I wouldn't be shocked to see Luka's numbers dip a bit next year with Bohannon and others a full strength.

I could see next year going either way. His numbers might dip because we have another scorer out there. But on the other hand, do you quit giving Graza all the touches he can handle to get Bohannon more shots? Does Bohannon just take touches from all of our role players now? Does Garza improve his efficiency so he scores the same on less touches? Do his numbers drop a bit, but he shows NBA scouts more athletic ability? If Garza averages 5 less points again with the same efficiency and noticeably more explosiveness, he would be a way better NBA prospect.

 

[Fryowa]

Yea I definitely don’t follow basketball. I only watched every Duke game last year and live in North Carolina (ACC country). It’s about importance to a teams success. Who would be in bigger trouble without that player. 2018-2019 Duke loaded with lottery picks or 2019-2020 Iowa with a total of 7-8 competent players on the roster who aren’t injured? Hmmm

That's a load of shit. The national POTY award is supposed to go to the best player in college basketball, not the "most important to his/her team."

Williamson won it last year, so your argument below...

Who would be in bigger trouble without that player. 2018-2019 Duke loaded with lottery picks or 2019-2020 Iowa with a total of 7-8 competent players on the roster who aren’t injured? Hmmm

...knocks your point out of the water. By your reasoning Williamson shouldn't have won it last year because, even though he was the best basketball player in the country, he was surrounded by one and doners and wasn't the most important guy to Duke's success, right? Hmmm

 

[mopkins]

I could see next year going either way. His numbers might dip because we have another scorer out there. But on the other hand, do you quit giving Graza all the touches he can handle to get Bohannon more shots? Does Bohannon just take touches from all of our role players now? Does Garza improve his efficiency so he scores the same on less touches? Do his numbers drop a bit, but he shows NBA scouts more athletic ability? If Garza averages 5 less points again with the same efficiency and noticeably more explosiveness, he would be a way better NBA prospect.

I think if Garza's points go slightly down next year but his assists go way up because he's kicking the ball out to wide open (and lethal) 3 point shooters like CJ, JBo and JW....it will be an even better season for Luka AND the Hawkeyes.