lets talk offensive scheme
- Thread starter Foval21
- Start date
Golfer
Well-Known Member
Hopefully this thread will be similar.
I don't have any great insight. I do get upset, specifically at Nebraska, when the offense doesn't get opened up until the game is out of hand. Also, when we really don't throw the ball, until we're against a fairly stiff wind in the 4th quarter.
I also don't like the delayed hand off on third and short. I don't like it even when it works.
No great insight here, except to say, I question some play calling, but I couldn't do it any better. I wonder if play calling will be different going forward, given we will stay basically the same.
I don't have any great insight. I do get upset, specifically at Nebraska, when the offense doesn't get opened up until the game is out of hand. Also, when we really don't throw the ball, until we're against a fairly stiff wind in the 4th quarter.
I also don't like the delayed hand off on third and short. I don't like it even when it works.
No great insight here, except to say, I question some play calling, but I couldn't do it any better. I wonder if play calling will be different going forward, given we will stay basically the same.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
I like to see us run a freaking 2 min drill. Kurt, I am looking at you.
FalseMirage
Well-Known Member
Less stubbornly banging your head against the wall; more scratching where it itches.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
Not punting inside the 40.
ATLHawkeye
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see us getting back to making our tight ends a bigger part of our passing game. If used properly, CJF should present such a big matchup problem I can't imagine not making him a big part of the offense.
simpsonllp
Well-Known Member
Our offense but out of shotgun almost every single down. Less double tight sets and more sets with 1 TE, 2 WR, and 1 H back including a RB.
Recruit QB's who are a legitimate running thread in the red zone and on 3rd short/medium situations and use the QB in the running game waaay more than we currently do.
Recruit QB's who are a legitimate running thread in the red zone and on 3rd short/medium situations and use the QB in the running game waaay more than we currently do.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
I will limit my comments here, but I would like to see the offense skinny down the playbook and focus more on execution. It was pretty obvious in certain games the past two years the players were bogged down with too much playbook and they were failing at fundamentals. A skinnier playbook with more reps for each play in practice will keep the offense humming along.
big10fan
Well-Known Member
this triple underlined. our O is at its best when the TE is a major part of the gameplan.
i know zone blocking is our bread and butter, and when working is a thing of beauty, but when we have a team like Nebby or Mich St slanting hard it would be nice to run a counter and use their over aggression against them.
all that said, i don't have too much beef with the way the O is run. really would like to see the end around stricken from the play book.
lastly: i really, really hope they work on hot reads in the off-season. the word is out that you get pressure on JVB and he panics, so teams will focus on that next year. we need to be ready for it and use the hot reads and screens to counter, or it will be a really long year.
big10fan
Well-Known Member
don't know if you're serious on this?
doesn't really seem like we run that many plays compared to most team, and the ones we did run were fairly predictable based on formation. if anything, i'd like us to run more plays from similar looks. don't have to get exotic with formations if you can keep the D guessing. that's a way to make things easier to learn. i think someone from Mich St said that we were easy to figure out based on the formation. i certainly could be wrong though.
The A11.... But in all seriousness... Example... See wisconsin... zone blocking, the power, playaction, vertical passing game of playaction as well as dropback(4verts), bootlegs....I am not a fan of running from the shotgun. unless you have the right players to do it, it is very difficult. Or just simply anything that outscores the opponent is what I will live with.
This is not my side of the ball, but I would agree with this. We need to be able to impose our will. If we want to run, we will (Coker did a good job). If we want to pass, we will (Marv did a good job). The OL did a good job.
I think (again not my side) the TE and the execution mentioned, were the real sore spots. I also love the fade and it was done a few times this year perfectly. I KNOW when it is ran correctly and at the right time it is very hard to defend.
Last edited:
KnightHawk9
Well-Known Member
I don't watch enough of other teams, but what are Wisconsin and Stanford doing that we're not? I know they both run a pro style offense. When I've watched Wisconsin, it's almost more of an attitude thing. They know they are going to move the ball, score touchdowns, etc. It's not like we've never had that either. In 2002, we came out every game KNOWING that we were going to score a TD on the first drive.
Here's some examples of things I feel like we do poorly:
1) Counters. Each play we run should have a "counter" or an "opposite". It seems like once the play starts, we all know where it's going. Why can't we run "stretch play right" but run a counter off that? From a passing play perspective, we all know about the jailbreak screen. However, there used to be a play where the inside receiver, instead of the kickout block, would "whiff" on the block and head up the sideline. Honestly, the last time I remember seeing it (and I've been watching) was with Dallas Clark. I just feel like we don't do a good job of setting up the D and then burning them later.
2) Play call streaks/habits. Speaking of the jailbreak, we have issues with streaks of calling the same plays. It seems like for a couple of years, we called that play 4 times a game. Then we totally dropped it. It's a good enough play, but why does it have to be feast or famine?
3) Scratch where it itches. It seems like we really struggle to "scratch where it itches". A lot of times going into the game, I'll see that we're playing a team that has a great run defense and a terrible pass defense. And what do we do? Run the ball into 8 man fronts. For example, didn't Penn State have a true frosh with little experience guarding McNutt this year? Personally, I would have thrown it his way 15 times. Just see what happens, you know?
4) Clock management. I know you could say this is KF's issue, but if the OC knows how to manage the clock, he should do it. He doesn't have to wait for KF to do it. Just take charge. That could win us some close games right there.
5) Quick play calling. I just think getting the play in quickly and letting the players get into a flow would help.
Here's some examples of things I feel like we do poorly:
1) Counters. Each play we run should have a "counter" or an "opposite". It seems like once the play starts, we all know where it's going. Why can't we run "stretch play right" but run a counter off that? From a passing play perspective, we all know about the jailbreak screen. However, there used to be a play where the inside receiver, instead of the kickout block, would "whiff" on the block and head up the sideline. Honestly, the last time I remember seeing it (and I've been watching) was with Dallas Clark. I just feel like we don't do a good job of setting up the D and then burning them later.
2) Play call streaks/habits. Speaking of the jailbreak, we have issues with streaks of calling the same plays. It seems like for a couple of years, we called that play 4 times a game. Then we totally dropped it. It's a good enough play, but why does it have to be feast or famine?
3) Scratch where it itches. It seems like we really struggle to "scratch where it itches". A lot of times going into the game, I'll see that we're playing a team that has a great run defense and a terrible pass defense. And what do we do? Run the ball into 8 man fronts. For example, didn't Penn State have a true frosh with little experience guarding McNutt this year? Personally, I would have thrown it his way 15 times. Just see what happens, you know?
4) Clock management. I know you could say this is KF's issue, but if the OC knows how to manage the clock, he should do it. He doesn't have to wait for KF to do it. Just take charge. That could win us some close games right there.
5) Quick play calling. I just think getting the play in quickly and letting the players get into a flow would help.
MoseSchrute
Well-Known Member
Damn straight.
i have a few things i would like to see happen with the offense that keeps it in the prostyle and doesnt call for a complete change of scheme.
1) packages - use different ones with same formations. such as have a 3 wr I -form but use a package where cjf is the outside wr. i want to see how teams match up. we have the ability with our wrs and tes to create match up problems.
2) stop using a rb as the 4 or 5 wr. we have a staple of young wrs use them. unless you are motioning the back out then go to a package with 4 or 5 wr.
3) use more 5 step drop patterns. our passing consists mainly of 3 step slants and 7 step post/corner/playaction. mid range is where our wrs will be most effective because of the type we have.
4) always have a homerun hitter on the field. maybe a wr or a rb. to me we have 3 guys that seem to fit that bill next year - rbs: canzeri and garmon, wr: bullock (yes i believe he is a wr).
5) use shifting. we do motioning (usually an h-back or wr) but we rarely set up in a double tight and shift to an I or something like this. this is a great tool to seeing man or zone coverage and to get the defense moving and changing calls to attack during.
6) put in a jet sweep. the end around is expected from us but put bullock or another wr in motion while jvb is under center and hand it to him on a jet sweep. gives us 3 options out of the motion (jet sweep, crack block, pass route).
7) when teams are slanting hard we need to use more pin and pull zone blocking. for people that dont know there are multiple types of zone blocking schemes. one that we use little of is the pin and pull and it can be effective against the hard slant.
8) we run a lot of double patterns (ie two slants on the same side). we need more short/medium/long combos. it seems like when we go long everyone is long except for a rb or a drag by a wr. we need more layers to sneak over or under as reads react.
9) i would like us to run 3-1-1 formation with a tailback, a tight end on 1 side and a trips formation on the other. i think it will allow for major match up problems.
10) we have some good tes. use the full house formation or diamond with rogers and a te or two tes and see what we can do running and passing. i think we could get some major mismatches ala gronk and hernandez with the patriots.
let me know what you think. i have some more coming later. nothing major with changing the offense but instead little nuances that could give us the edge.
1) packages - use different ones with same formations. such as have a 3 wr I -form but use a package where cjf is the outside wr. i want to see how teams match up. we have the ability with our wrs and tes to create match up problems.
2) stop using a rb as the 4 or 5 wr. we have a staple of young wrs use them. unless you are motioning the back out then go to a package with 4 or 5 wr.
3) use more 5 step drop patterns. our passing consists mainly of 3 step slants and 7 step post/corner/playaction. mid range is where our wrs will be most effective because of the type we have.
4) always have a homerun hitter on the field. maybe a wr or a rb. to me we have 3 guys that seem to fit that bill next year - rbs: canzeri and garmon, wr: bullock (yes i believe he is a wr).
5) use shifting. we do motioning (usually an h-back or wr) but we rarely set up in a double tight and shift to an I or something like this. this is a great tool to seeing man or zone coverage and to get the defense moving and changing calls to attack during.
6) put in a jet sweep. the end around is expected from us but put bullock or another wr in motion while jvb is under center and hand it to him on a jet sweep. gives us 3 options out of the motion (jet sweep, crack block, pass route).
7) when teams are slanting hard we need to use more pin and pull zone blocking. for people that dont know there are multiple types of zone blocking schemes. one that we use little of is the pin and pull and it can be effective against the hard slant.
8) we run a lot of double patterns (ie two slants on the same side). we need more short/medium/long combos. it seems like when we go long everyone is long except for a rb or a drag by a wr. we need more layers to sneak over or under as reads react.
9) i would like us to run 3-1-1 formation with a tailback, a tight end on 1 side and a trips formation on the other. i think it will allow for major match up problems.
10) we have some good tes. use the full house formation or diamond with rogers and a te or two tes and see what we can do running and passing. i think we could get some major mismatches ala gronk and hernandez with the patriots.
let me know what you think. i have some more coming later. nothing major with changing the offense but instead little nuances that could give us the edge.
MoseSchrute
Well-Known Member
Crazy talk. You don't deserve to win if you can't hammer it through an 8 man front.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
I don't know if this is one of your jokes or not, but Iowas problem is and has been the offense is way to simplistic and more importantly way to risk averse.
Screens to the running back are a staple and necessity of a pro style offense to keep the defense guessing.
Iowa never attacks the middle with screens because they are afraid of turnovers but it allows defenses to be far to aggressive.
I want to see Iowa change tempos rather than doing every thing the same all the time. When we have the defense on its heels get up to the line quickly and keep things moving. This is another staple of a real pro offense that Iowa is too afraid to do.
If you are going to run a pro style offense do it like a pro team not like a highschool team.
^good stuff.
The giants in the super bowl showed how you can get the fullback wide open in the flat for big gains and then when the defense adjusts to it by moving a linebacker to cover it opened up the slants and stop routes about ten yards downfield.
My point, we are not dictating the action with our offense.
We dont throw the ball deep very often so teams have their safeties up on us which tightens windows. You have to be ready to make the defense pay.
If they have 8 in the box we have to burn them with hot reads on quick slants, stop patterns etc that can go the distance. make the opposing defense adjust and then counter their adjustments.
I think there are plenty of people on this site who know and have seen how a really good offensive coord can move his team like a chess master.
And we dont need a chess master, just someone who can squeeze out one more scoring drive a game and we win 9 games a year with our defense.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
I'm struggling here. The last play of Adam Robinson's career was a middle screen where he got LIT UP by OSU. The middle screen is too dangerous to run.
As for the remainder of your tripe, the offensive is slowed down by the TEAM philosophy of holding the ball as long as we can and winning time of possession. We aren't trying to be Oregon with 6 play, sub two minute 80 yard drives.
The biggest issue is our QBs just really aren't as good at making reads as you guys think they are. O'Keefe worked with them, but the guy couldn't turn water into wine. He did a helluva job with the QBs, but he ain't a miracle worker.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
O'Keefe was a chessmaster. You are going to be sorely disappointed with the 2012 offense. We just don't have the stable of guys you think we have.
