DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
Is it 'unfortunate' that Barry Bonds will be remembered for using steroids? That OJ Simpson will be remembered for cutting up his wife?
Lance Armstrong: Innocent?
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
Is it 'unfortunate' that Barry Bonds will be remembered for using steroids? That OJ Simpson will be remembered for cutting up his wife?
Yes? What were you trying to say with this?
RobKong
Well-Known Member
I find it funny that everybody who has come forward to say they saw him do it or they know he did it are guys who actually have been caught. The guys who finished 2nd and 3rd to him got caught. His teammates got caught. Why didn't he get caught? Is it because he is just a better cheater? Or that he's just clean and the "witnesses" all have a book to sell or appearance fees to collect?
I don't know. Things don't look good, but freakin' prove it. And this is coming from a decades long cyclist and fan who by no means has a crush on Lance...
I don't know. Things don't look good, but freakin' prove it. And this is coming from a decades long cyclist and fan who by no means has a crush on Lance...
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
This has been debated in the past. I was actually surprised by the number of people on this site who thought what Lance has accomplished was done so without cheating. My response no freaking way did Lance not cheat.
Lance can claim he tested clean everytime, that doesn't say much when others say they where all they did cheat and nobody tested positive on the postal team during Lance's 7 year run.
I also believe that most in racing are cheating so IMO you could contend it was a pretty level playing field and if that is the case Lance still couldn't be beat.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
Wrong. His doctors, pharmacists, dealers, transporters, methods of bribery, etc. were the best. That's the thing, there is no level playing field once you start creating a monster out of your body.
Barry Bonds' hat size increased something like three sizes in one off-season of work by his cocktail team. It's not apples to apples.
For those who want proof of a positive test, you're missing the point. Marion Jones tested "clean" for years, but ultimately admitted to doping all the way back to before the 2000 games.
If Armstrong ultimately admits or is ever found to be guilty, then his whole life is built on a lie. At that point, he will have tarnished his name, his sport and his country, while jeopardizing his own life by using extremely dangerous drugs. He will be a fraud.
My mom lived through cancer while raising two kids and continuing to work full-time, and never enjoyed basking in the limelight of the national media or being praised repeatedly as an inspiration. There are millions of people like her. Take their chemo, throw up, and back to work the next day.
Doublewide
Well-Known Member
Who cares it Cycling.
atxhawk
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I love how the talking heads for your various sports shows always slam cycling whenever somebody gets busted for drugs, and talk about how dirty cycling is. Cycling and track don't mess around with their drug testing like the major sports do here.
For a guy that has been test 500+ times, the Cycling world out to get him for decades, and most riders outside of the US hating him, it sure is amazing not a shred of proof exists to date.
He is in a no win position basically, those that were caught have turned on him, he cannot do anything to "prove" he didnt dope....yet with all of those people out to get him for years and still out to get him not a single evidence of proof exists which is quite ironic.
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
Not only Lance but these teammates never tested positive during his run to 7 straight and they all say they were doing it at the time.
slankyJ
Well-Known Member
I've thought about this quite a bit and I've decided that even if Lance Armstrong did unfairly use banned substances while competing I am willing to give him a pass exclusively due to his rare character and the fact that the man has raised more than $100 million for cancer research.
I know the two events are independent of each other and normally (ex: every steroid user in baseball) I would not be so forgiving, I'm maybe even being hypocritical but given the good the man has done and is continuing to do in the world I could let such an infraction slide and not lose any sleep over it.
What say you society? Do we let the man's past infractions, assuming they even occurred, slide on account of remarkable philanthropy and selfless service to humanity? Or do we tie him to the same cross as all the other 'dopers'? [I say give the man a pass]
I know the two events are independent of each other and normally (ex: every steroid user in baseball) I would not be so forgiving, I'm maybe even being hypocritical but given the good the man has done and is continuing to do in the world I could let such an infraction slide and not lose any sleep over it.
What say you society? Do we let the man's past infractions, assuming they even occurred, slide on account of remarkable philanthropy and selfless service to humanity? Or do we tie him to the same cross as all the other 'dopers'? [I say give the man a pass]
All? Frankly most of the cycling world was not concerned with most of the other American riders...they were irrelevant. Lance has always been under the microscope and it is not new that others want to tarnish his career.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
I love how you just assume the reason they spoke out is because they want to tarnish his career. I'm sure every bicyclist is a bit jealous of Armstrong's accomplishments but think about it for a second. They grew up in the sport. I'm sure their love for the sport is greater than their love for Lance Armstrong. If they were 110% sure Lance won 7 Tour de France titles while doping then they owed it to the sport to come forward. They owed it to themselves. Put yourself in their shoes for a second... that's not an easy decision to make. In the end I would feel like I have to come forward with the information that I have because the future of the sport will be better off because of it. They were all very close teammates. I doubt it was easy for them to throw Lance under the bus.
In the end they needed to be honest about what they knew. If I was in their shoes I wouldn't want to live the rest of my life knowing that the legacy of the greatest athlete in the history of our sport was cheating all along and no one knew about it. If he was cheating people deserve to know the truth.
In the end they needed to be honest about what they knew. If I was in their shoes I wouldn't want to live the rest of my life knowing that the legacy of the greatest athlete in the history of our sport was cheating all along and no one knew about it. If he was cheating people deserve to know the truth.
What the hell else do you call it? Like this is anything but a venture to tarnish his career? What do you think they just get self satisfaction out of it? LOL, give me a break!
Nearly every, if not every rider to come forward has done so after they've been found guilty of doping first. How ironic, lol. If all of these riders are simply doing it for the love of the sport where the heck were they when he was supposedly doping? The more logical explanation is these guys are nothing now, Lance is on top of the world and they are looking for 15 minutes of fame for accusing him of doping.
To date, despite being the most heavily drug tested man in sports, not a single shred of evidence exists that he used. That is the only fact known as of today. It is almost getting comical watching these washed up guys that tested positive try to make the claims now....misery loves company, no doubt.
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DesMoinesHawki
Well-Known Member
Where there is smoke there is fire and Mr. Wonderful is looking more and more to not be so innocent. Personally, I hope they do nail his a&& -- whatever that ends up entailing. If you cheat you should pay for it. If you lie in every one of your interviews about not taking performance-enhancing drugs then he should pay for it. So tired of athletes cheating to get ahead. Yes, it happens in every sport but enough ... and maybe if some of these big-name athletics get knocked down a level or two then maybe others will think twice about cheating ...
shonblatt
Well-Known Member
The drug testing is a joke. The cheaters are 5 steps ahead of them at all times and have numerous ways to beat the tests. The ones that got caught were careless.
Cycling is a dirty sport - cheating is pretty much mandatory to be at a championship level.
And frankly, since they're all cheating, I sort of consider it a level playing field where nobody has an advantage.
Lance was still the best in the world, with or without the drugs.
Cycling is a dirty sport - cheating is pretty much mandatory to be at a championship level.
And frankly, since they're all cheating, I sort of consider it a level playing field where nobody has an advantage.
Lance was still the best in the world, with or without the drugs.
raspberrytea
Well-Known Member
Just curious how you know his doctors and pharmacists were the best? Seems like a pretty blind stroke with that brush.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
It's called hindsight. Many people get older and regret decisions they made in the past once they are out of those situations. They were on a team where everyone was doping. They were all pressured to do it. Several years later when they look back at the decisions they made I'm sure some of them regret it. That doesn't make them horrible people for wanting the truth to be made public, whether or not it hurts Lance Armstrong.
It's pretty obvious the guy cheated. He did cheat at a time when many others were cheating. To be clear, there is no doubt in my mind he was still probably the best rider. I just happen to think it takes a bigger man to step up and admit the truth than it does to hide behind a lie simply because your ego is too large to admit wrongdoings. I don't care if there is any evidence or not. The number of people calling him out on it and admitting the majority of the sport was dirty is enough for me. Like I said, with the team Lance had following him around I'm sure it was simple for him to pass his tests.
It's pretty obvious the guy cheated. He did cheat at a time when many others were cheating. To be clear, there is no doubt in my mind he was still probably the best rider. I just happen to think it takes a bigger man to step up and admit the truth than it does to hide behind a lie simply because your ego is too large to admit wrongdoings. I don't care if there is any evidence or not. The number of people calling him out on it and admitting the majority of the sport was dirty is enough for me. Like I said, with the team Lance had following him around I'm sure it was simple for him to pass his tests.
FalseMirage
Well-Known Member
And he's the most tested athlete in the history of the world.