Kirk is a victim of his own success

[Bigtenchamp]

Part of the problem is that he accomplished alot in those early years and this set the expectations at a level he just hasn't been able to maintain.

I'm not saying its an excuse (I have never liked his conservative game management in any year, but its easy to ignore things when you win) but it is a reality.

Expectations are difficult - but if he did it then he should be able to do it now and there lies the dilemma of his performance the last 6-7 years.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I agree. Happened to Dan McCarney too. Coaches have success of a program that is down, then the administration & fans get greedy.

 

[FalseMirage]

It also happened to Lute, Lute, Lute.

 

[83Hawk]

He is still reaping the benefits of 2002-2004.

If you were to graph the years since, you would see an overall downward trend (with a spike in 2009). No one should be surprised at this. College/Big 10 football is changing...Kirk is not. While many teams are going with mobile QB's and some form of spread and/or no huddle....Iowa runs pretty much the same offense and defense they have for the past decade plus.

As bad as this year is...next year looks to be even worse. Unless Kirk makes changes.....but I won't get my hopes up on that.

 

[BSpringsteen]

I agree. Happened to Dan McCarney too. Coaches have success of a program that is down, then the administration & fans get greedy.

What a crock of ****.

I don't know any fan that is asking for top ten finishes every year.

Fans are ****** because we keep making the same mistakes over and over again against ****** teams.

 

[DJL]

Kirk has been rewarded for his good years with a huge contract, $3.6 million a year. When you get paid that kind of money, people are going to expect a lot. He brought a program back to the national scene after it was down much like Hayden Fry did. People forget that we went to 3 Rose Bowls in 10 years. The record may not have always looked great, but I would take a Rose Bowl any season. So for those that say we are just little ole' Iowa and fans expect too much should look at our last 20 year history and realize that we can be successful. Yes we will have down years, but you expect those down years to be when everyone is pretty good and you just aren't quite as good as everyone else. This year, the Big 10 is down. We just lost to a team that got thumped by North Dakota State. Something is very wrong in the program now. When you give a guy a large contract for many years, where is the incentive? What motivation does he have to change? He is set for life, sure he wants to win, but do you lose a little bit of your edge when you don't have anything to worry about from a financial standpoint for life? I think KF is a good person, and I've made excuses for him for the past year and a half, but I am done. He needs to change something, or he needs to go period.

 

[BALDIES7980]

Poor excuse!
The world has changed in the last 20yrs and so has Iowa football under KF. But he reached a point of success by changing things at Iowa to his way, his mentality and then he obviously felt it was good and he knows everything because he hasn't adjusted.
"the first day you think you know everything and you have everyone figured out is the first day you start regressing"
These things happen to everyone in all facets of life and self examination/elavuation is probably the hardest thing to do for anyone.
But by far and away in life WE are our OWN worst enemy.
Over coming ourselves is THE key to success no matter what the topic or goal may be.

 

[STILLBUSTER]

What a crock of ****.

I don't know any fan that is asking for top ten finishes every year.

Fans are ****** because we keep making the same mistakes over and over again against ****** teams.

EXACTLY, THIS!!

Yeah, I'm such a greedy fan to expect the following:
-- that Iowa should handily beat those teams over which it has superior resources, talent and tradition 9 of 10 times (ISU, NwU, Indiana, Minny, and directional FCS non-conference teams);
-- that Iowa at least split with those teams that have equal resources, talent and tradition (Wisky, MSU, Penn State and Purdue);
-- and occasionally (once every 3 years) rise up and snag one from those with superior resources, talent and tradition (OState, Michigan, Nebraska).

In this era of 12-game seasons, with 7 of them at home, and the above competition, it's merely asking for competence -- simply playing to your own talent and ability AND putting yourself in the best position to win -- to win 7 or 8 games, every year, depending on who that 4th non-conf opponent is.

Falling short of that means one of two things:
1) Hawks are really down in talent (they're just really young or really bad);
2) The coaches aren't doing their job of motivating the players to play to their ability and win and are not putting the players in the best position (schematically, strategically, positionally) to win.

It's been the latter for the inexplicable, inexcusable losses over the last 7 seasons. It has nothing to do with prior success.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Agreed - I'm not pi$$ed because we lost to OSU or Wisconsin last year, as painful as those losses were. I'm ticked off that KF is 6-7 against ISU, has lost to a terrible Minnesota program two years in a row, and has had his own share of trouble beating Indiana, even including those close, nailbiting W's. Ditto for being something like 2-5 against NW the past 7 meetings.

That stat from the Gazette about Iowa's record when 10+ point favorites since 2006 is the one that is really getting me. That says a lot.

Sure, I'd like to be able to beat OSU a couple times a decade, challenge for the Big Ten title here and there. But if we lose to OSU? So what? No shame in that. Nor is there any shame in losing to PSU, Michigan, etc.

But the simple fact is that KF's teams are not taking care of business against teams they are supposed to be able to handle. Just win those games, and our overall record will look pretty solid. 9-3 instead of 7-5 with a loss to ISU and Indiana/Minnesota.. I'd take that 9-3 in a heartbeat. If that makes me a greedy fan, then so be it.

 

[HerkyDog]

As long as the Iowa football program continues to downgrade its own potential, i.e. Kirk's "not sexy" take, and convince its fan base to parrot this sentiment, it will never take the next step. It's an inherently bogus philosophy, as Iowa continuously tops the B10 in players taken by the NFL each year, and upgrades its own facilities at huge expense. Let's compare Iowa's roster to Minnesota's or ISU's and count the NFL prospects. It's not even close. Minnesota probably has as many future draft picks as Coe college.

I would prefer this program either own its reputation, or move on with another staff that will at least attempt to capitalize on the "big time" status the program has earned. Not dominating inferior programs is a slap in the face to the incredibly generous individuals who fund all the projects that are completed to upgrade the program, and a ticking time bomb for in state support/talent into the program.

Iowa's fan base deserves to have expectations, and talented coaches understand this sentiment and don't resent it. Iowa's fan base has beaten itself up for losing coaching talent in the past (like Lute Olsen), but this attitude is misplaced. It is an extremely soft market in Iowa City compared to the Southeast and other major markets for college football. As Hayden Fry would say, this program needs to scratch where it itches. Right now, I think most of the itching is in the game day coaching/strategist area. Kirk must scratch that area after this season.

Enough is enough.

 

[ssckelley]

I get what the op is saying, we seen some of those spoiled brats posting for the coaches job after the Penn State game. As others have said I have no issues losing these kinds of games in years where we are obviously rebuilding. Under KF we have seen sustained success never seen before in the history of Iowa football, even during the Evy & Hayden years. So that has raised the bar of the fan bases expectations.

But the problem I have, as echoed many times is losing to teams that Iowa has no business losing to. You go for the win at Iowa State and you prepare for the onside kick against Minnesota and this team is sitting 7-1. We would have kool aid drinkers predicting a Legends championship and us imagining what bowl games we are projected to go to. Instead we sit 5-3 with the worst of our schedule in front of us and we wonder if Iowa can win another game. Finishing 7-5 with losses over the final 4 games against good competition would be an example of KF being a "victim" of his own success. Finishing 5-7 with losses to Minnesota and Iowa State is not, those are game they are expected to win and should win.

 

[BALDIES7980]

Agreed - I'm not pi$$ed because we lost to OSU or Wisconsin last year, as painful as those losses were. I'm ticked off that KF is 6-7 against ISU, has lost to a terrible Minnesota program two years in a row, and has had his own share of trouble beating Indiana, even including those close, nailbiting W's. Ditto for being something like 2-5 against NW the past 7 meetings.

That stat from the Gazette about Iowa's record when 10+ point favorites since 2006 is the one that is really getting me. That says a lot.

Sure, I'd like to be able to beat OSU a couple times a decade, challenge for the Big Ten title here and there. But if we lose to OSU? So what? No shame in that. Nor is there any shame in losing to PSU, Michigan, etc.

But the simple fact is that KF's teams are not taking care of business against teams they are supposed to be able to handle. Just win those games, and our overall record will look pretty solid. 9-3 instead of 7-5 with a loss to ISU and Indiana/Minnesota.. I'd take that 9-3 in a heartbeat. If that makes me a greedy fan, then so be it.

You know I really think that is what frustrates me more than anything else about the football program with KF. If he could look himself in the mirror and convince himself to make some small changes here and there he could have averaged 1.5 more wins a year to this point in his tenure and alot of the unrest would be gone.
They would not have to be huge changes either. Its baffling to me.

 

[mccarthyizm]

He is still reaping the benefits of 2002-2004.

If you were to graph the years since, you would see an overall downward trend (with a spike in 2009). No one should be surprised at this. College/Big 10 football is changing...Kirk is not. While many teams are going with mobile QB's and some form of spread and/or no huddle....Iowa runs pretty much the same offense and defense they have for the past decade plus.

As bad as this year is...next year looks to be even worse. Unless Kirk makes changes.....but I won't get my hopes up on that.

Enough of this mobile QB spread argument. If you honestly think that a pro style offense can no longer work for Iowa, then you're going to have to explain why, and the answer can't just be because everybody else is doing it.

Coker had almost 200 yards at halftime on Saturday. That doesn't strike me as much of a strike against a pro style offense.

How will the spread and a mobile QB prevent Iowa from jumping offsides, missing field goals, missing blocks, running the wrong routes, and overthrowing WR's?

I believe the offense is the problem, and has been for several years, but I don't blame the scheme.

 

[hawkfan2679]

If you were to graph the years since, you would see an overall downward trend (with a spike in 2009).

You know, I took a look back at the game schedule for that year. The planets must have really aligned that year or KF had some built up karma from somewhere because the amount of unusual (lucky?) things that happened that year are just baffling.

* UNI - A game we pretty much were getting beat all day until a late TD gave us the lead...then there is obviously the blocked FG(s). How many times has that EVER happened?

* Penn State - Losing in the 4th quarter when, on a called return, Adrian Clayborn blows up an up-back, blocks the punt, AND gets the scoop and score. Darryl Clark threw us the ball quite a bit that day, but I'm not convinced we win if we have to expect the offense to get us those points.

* Arkansas State - Really? Stanzi throws pick 6 number 195 for the season and we scrape by with a FG win. Nothing too "planets aligning" here...

* Michigan - We continue to get two score leads until late in the game, then we decide to become a sieve on defense, allowing Denard Robinson to cut through us for a late score. Then they get the ball back with a chance to win and inexplicably, Robinson ignores the wide-open underneath route and throws a bad ball that Greenwood intercepts.

* MSU - Hard fought victory on the road, although it did require a last play of the game heroic to do it.

* Indiana - We are about to go down 28-7 when the pinball INT happens, which is probably a once per season (if that) type of play. Our QB throws 5 INT's, Indiana forgets how to play pass defense, and we score 28 4th quarter points to win. If I recall, there were a couple plays in this game where Spievey got burnt but was then saved by the questionable instant replay reviews.

Thankfully we finished the season by playing the worst BCS team that year in Georgia Tech and were able to come away with a win.

What a truly odd year...I only brought it up again because a lot of people are bringing it up in reference to those who say that 2002-2004 was a long time ago...they feel like 2009 is getting swept under the rug. However, I look at it more as the 2005-2008 (2008 may be the exception) years were 2009 without all the lucky breaks.

 

[VintageHawkeye]

kirk is teh ultimate fat cat
locked in a mega contract and now he's gliding with his flaps down

 

[1977Hawkeye]

You know I really think that is what frustrates me more than anything else about the football program with KF. If he could look himself in the mirror and convince himself to make some small changes here and there he could have averaged 1.5 more wins a year to this point in his tenure and alot of the unrest would be gone.
They would not have to be huge changes either. Its baffling to me.

I agree with you.. It should seem like this type of thing should be correctable. Just beat the teams that you should be able to handle pretty easily. I'm not sure if it's a matter of focus or what.

I hate to say this, but we saw a lot of this in the Steve Alford basketball era: Beat a ranked team and then turn around and lose to one of the conference's bottom feeders. To me, that's far more infuriating than beating the bad teams and losing to the top teams in the conference. Except in just a 12 game football season, each bad loss like the one on Saturday is magnified threefold as opposed to a 30 game basketball season.

 

[ssckelley]

This is what made Hayden Fry so successful. True a few of his teams got snake bit by Minnesota a couple of times but for the most part Hayden took care of business against bad teams, won his share against decent teams, and surprised us once in a while against a really good team. This was his recipe for success as he rarely lost to Iowa State or Northwestern. Nor did he shy away from running up the score a little bit if he felt it would help as I can not think of a time where Hayden sat on a lead.

 

[BALDIES7980]

This is what made Hayden Fry so successful. True a few of his teams got snake bit by Minnesota a couple of times but for the most part Hayden took care of business against bad teams, won his share against decent teams, and surprised us once in a while against a really good team. This was his recipe for success as he rarely lost to Iowa State or Northwestern. Nor did he shy away from running up the score a little bit if he felt it would help as I can not think of a time where Hayden sat on a lead.

LET THE THOROUGHBREDS RUN!
GET THE 2ND TEAMERS IN AND LET THEM HAVE SOME FUN!

 

[BALDIES7980]

I agree with you.. It should seem like this type of thing should be correctable. Just beat the teams that you should be able to handle pretty easily. I'm not sure if it's a matter of focus or what.

I hate to say this, but we saw a lot of this in the Steve Alford basketball era: Beat a ranked team and then turn around and lose to one of the conference's bottom feeders. To me, that's far more infuriating than beating the bad teams and losing to the top teams in the conference. Except in just a 12 game football season, each bad loss like the one on Saturday is magnified threefold as opposed to a 30 game basketball season.

Well my gut feeling is it is pretty much the same idea diferent personalities.
It svery common for coaches,hell bosses on all levels to think their idea is THE idea and no one else can know as much as he does. Which CAN be true if you are good at self evaluation and not too proud to think other people might have a good idea.
SA was a pompous *** and he wasn't afraid to let you know it.
KF has alot of experience and he just thinks he's right and is willing to stay the course because he had some success. Maybe he lets others make the decisions and he feels its his job to take the heat IDK but taking ideas of many experienced people and blending them together to become successful has always been very benefitial to me in the business world.
KF has the tools that are probably the most difficult to find in a coach( likeability and ability to teach) he just needs to update himself from the old IBM mainframe in the airconditoned closet to the Iphone in his pocket.
Nothing can be a success without some risk involved otherwise everyone would be choosing the no risk option.