Kirk Ferentz...the next Tom Davis?

[whammer33024]

great thread until neil poked his head in. really? you want someone to refuse their salary? would you if you delivered below expectations work? oh man, i didn't get to my sales quota this month, guess i better resign or not get paid. get real

 

[BackNBlk]

great thread until neil poked his head in. really? you want someone to refuse their salary? would you if you delivered below expectations work? oh man, i didn't get to my sales quota this month, guess i better resign or not get paid. get real

I agree. Do you know of ANYONE who gives back part of their pay for subpar work? I made a point in another thread that it's about more than just coaching. KF has a higher graduation rate than many of the coaches who are paid more than him and have won national titles. His rates are almost double what Bobby Stoops has at Oklahoma. That should be worth some extra ching. It's definitely something to take pride in.

 

[NeilDiamond]

I agree. Do you know of ANYONE who gives back part of their pay for subpar work? I made a point in another thread that it's about more than just coaching. KF has a higher graduation rate than many of the coaches who are paid more than him and have won national titles. His rates are almost double what Bobby Stoops has at Oklahoma. That should be worth some extra ching. It's definitely something to take pride in.

Don't care. This is big time CFB, not a book club. Its big business. As long as they win, stay eligible and don't pillage the campus, that is fine with me. You know when fans trumpet graduation rates? when their team sucks. Iowa's is not all that great in any event.

As far as returning salary, if you use your eyes to read, you will see that I said it will never happen. I was implying that given the highway robbery that has occurred over the past 3 years by the honorable and classy KF, it would be unique if he took such a path. Wishful thinking if you will.

 

[BackNBlk]

Don't care. This is big time CFB, not a book club. Its big business. As long as they win, stay eligible and don't pillage the campus, that is fine with me. You know when fans trumpet graduation rates? when their team sucks. Iowa's is not all that great in any event.

As far as returning salary, if you use your eyes to read, you will see that I said it will never happen. I was implying that given the highway robbery that has occurred over the past 3 years by the honorable and classy KF, it would be unique if he took such a path. Wishful thinking if you will.

Oh, I don't know....Notre Dame usually has high grad rates and they haven't always sucked. Rutgers is up there with Miami, Penn State and Stanford and they haven't been bad. VT isn't far behind Iowa and they aren't bad.

I did use my eyes to READ.....it's just too bad what I read was idiotic. You imply that it's highway robbery as if his intent was to lose all those games. Of course it will never happen because NO ONE would do that. There are a lot of honorable and classy people out there and even they wouldn't return money for subpar work. Like I said in another thread, losing to teams like CMU, Minnesota and ISU wouldn't be any easier to take if he was paid $250K, so quit your whining about how much he gets paid.

 

[errball]

I agree. Do you know of ANYONE who gives back part of their pay for subpar work? I made a point in another thread that it's about more than just coaching. KF has a higher graduation rate than many of the coaches who are paid more than him and have won national titles. His rates are almost double what Bobby Stoops has at Oklahoma. That should be worth some extra ching. It's definitely something to take pride in.

Many people don't like him, but Bobby Knight gave his paycheck back to Texas Tech after a bad year. Coach Knight Turns Down Paycheck - CBS News

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Big props to the OP. never said he was thrilled with the current state of affairs, we all want better. What he gave was some perspective. Love it.

 

[racerhawk]

This is a program on a steep decline. I too am in my 50's and have seen a lot. Why so many are ok with the current downhill spiral that this program is on is maddening. You don't get better by standing pat. Yes, sometimes new coaching hires are mistakes but it is important to at least want to try and be better. The Alford hire looked like it would pay great dividends at the time. Who knew Stevie was such a dick. But at least we made an attempt to raise our national profile. The Lickliter hire was beyond a head scratcher. Did anyone actually think this would have a good ending. The odds are that by the time Kirk retires in 2016 (my prediction) this program will be a former shadow of itself. We can only hope that we will have a new AD by then who will at least want us to be more than just competitive. I have great respect and appreciation for Ferentz but the odds of us having a winning big ten season during the rest of his tenure is not good. It should never be acceptable for Iowa to consistently lose to Minnesota, Iowa State and Northwestern, let alone the occasional MAC schools. We can do better. I hope Kirk will do the right thing and retire before 2016 but I'm not optimistic.

When did the decline start? I hope you don't think it was earlier in the decade, because Iowa was arguably a Stanzi broken ankle away from an undefeated regular season. That wasn't "forever" ago.

 

[racerhawk]

I still think Iowa may be pretty darn good the next two years, but not this year (of course). I don't think that's a crazy thing to think.

 

[loesshillshawk]

SayberHawk, loesshillshawk....very good posts. I would agree with everything that Sayber said except throwing Frank Solich's name in there. He was 58-19 in six years at Nebraska. Unfortunately, you can't lose three games a year at Nebraska and expect to keep your job. I also disagree about the Bill Snyder comment by loesshillshawk. Snyder did an amazing job at KSU, but a big part of that job was to keep filling the roster with JUCO players. That meant constant depth problems, and after a year or two, he was back to the well again. That is not a cycle that you want to get into.

With all due respect...I never said anything about his recruiting or how Snyder went about building a winner. I simply stated facts he took K-State and made them a legit power, he left they fell down, he came back and they knock of Oklahoma and they are back. I was simply stating the man can flat out coach!!!! No one can deny that, I never said get into a recruiting cycle of JUCO players.

 

[SayberHawk]

I don't post very often, but at my age, when something really bothers me, I feel the need to preach to the inexperienced and naive whether it's my kids, my co-workers or fellow Hawkeye fans...to share my 50 years of wisdom, trials and tribulations so that others may learn without the same amount of pain that I've endured...My Hawkeye football memories go back pre-Hayden to the days of Frank Laterbur and Bob Commings. Memories of winless seasons....memories of the times when Iowa State was more relevant than Iowa...

As 2012 unfolds, it seems more and more fans are lining up to jump on the Fire Ferentz bandwagon. It reminds me of the same sort of posse that lined up to lynch Tom Davis when his contract was non-renewed after the 1998-99 basketball season. What followed was some of the worst basketball in Hawkeye history and unfortunate tenures of Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter. The Hawkeyes have only recently landed what appears to be a credible basketball coach with an improving and exciting program. What remains to be seen is that whether we can return to respectibility in the Big Ten and possibly the national scene. Even if the Hawkeyes can regain a nationally respected system, what certainty is there that Coach Fran will stay at Iowa and not move on to another school that has more tradition or cash. If Coach Fran is successful, you can bet he'll get about a dozen offers a day that will come with more storied traditions or more money and prestige.

If you look at Kirk's history at Iowa, it's eerily similar to Coach Davis'.

1. Coach Davis completed 13 seasons at Iowa beginning in 1986-87 and finished in 1998 -99. Coach Ferentz completed 13 seasons last year starting in fall after Coach Davis left 1999-2000. This year is his 14th season.

2. Coach Davis' teams highest Big Ten finish was a tie for second in 96-97, but went to the NCAA tournament 9 different seasons, the NIT once and only twice did not appear in the postseason. Coach Ferentz' teams highest Big Ten finish was a tie for first in 2002 and 2004. They've been to bowl games 10 of the 13 seasons.

3. Both coaches are men of integrity, compassion and lifelong commitments to the University of Iowa. Coach Davis handled his departure with class and has always maintained an outstanding relationship with the University.

While Coach Ferentz has had several offers to leave, he's remained loyal to the Hawkeyes, Iowa City and his family. While many fans complain about his salary, it seems apparent that the University of Iowa and the athletic donors have been willing to pay him to ensure his continued employment rather than lose him to another college or pro team. I'm sure everyone of those people complaining about his salary would fight to the death for the opportunity to extract the maximum salary that their employer would be willing to pay them.

I personally believe, that while I'm disappointed in the recent start, that I'll stand by Coach Ferentz as long as he'd like to coach at Iowa and I will not join the posse that wants him to be replaced.

As the saying goes...better the devil you know than the devil you don't...
A few recent examples from high profile schools include:

Rich Rodriguez - Michigan
Frank Solich / Bill Callahan - Nebraska
Gerry Faust / Bob Davie / Tyrone Willingham / Charlie Weis - Notre Dame
John L Smith - Arkansas
Foge Fazio / Paul Hackett / Johnny Majors (again) / Walt Harris / Dave Wannstadt - Pittsburgh
Joe Paterno - Penn State

In summary, we are not Michigan, Notre Dame, Nebraska or Penn State --- but more like the University of Pittsburgh. The odds of picking the next best thing for Iowa Football are very long and difficult. The next big thing may very well come in and behave like Steve Alford and cripple our program for years in the same way our basketball program was crippled. If it happens at schools like Nebraska, Notre Dame and other gold plated programs, it hard to believe it's nothing more than a lottery ticket to pluck the next Coach Kirk from Maine or Coach Fran from Sienna.

I was excited to see Kirk make some coaching changes this year and I think we need to be patient. While the Iowa program is a good job, it's not Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State and anyone we hire will extract a similar salary and face the same hurdles that our current coaches face with fact that we can't offer some of the same luxuries, legal or otherwise that many of the blue ribbon programs offer.
Kirk's coaching tenure is kind of like my first marriage --- after 13 years, I was ready for a new wife. When it actually happened, it turned my life upside down and I still haven't recovered fully twelve years later. She left with my house, half of my money and I've never found a replacement that didn't come with more baggage that than the first one. --- Trust me...nothing good can come of this. That is all....

One more thing that I wanted to add...one of the guys pointed out that Bill Snyder was the reason for Hayden Fry's success. I have to agree but would add Barry Alvarez, Brett Bielema, Kirk Ferentz, Jim Leavitt, Bobby Diaco, Bobby Elliot, Jay Norvell and even your friend and mine, Dan McCarney. And no one should forget probably one of the greatest recruiters of all time Bernie Wyatt.... Hayden was a great CEO that hired talented people that together they built a program with respect that continues today. When all these coaches started to leave Hayden was not as successful replacing those guys with like kind and quality and the program dipped. What we miss is that when that happened, Hayden was at an age where he was able to ride off into the sunset with his legend untarnished. Enter KF who also hired some great coaches...despite what many think, O'Keefe, Parker and others where able to quickly rebuild the program after a couple of pathetic early years. So here we are, Captain Kirk has basically retooled his entire coaching staff with new coaches at nearly every position. Given his history, I have to give him the benefit of time to see if he's made good decisions in restructuring his staff and made the right personell decisions. I think we are fortunate to have Captain Kirk at the helm to install Captain Kirk V 2.0. The continuity of staff, program and tradition should make that even easier the second time around. If it turns out that he's made some bad decisions this time around, I will ready to join the posse....but until we give it at least a year, I'm still on the Kirk's side. Until then each of these guys have been around long enough to see how all of this works...lets see how well they learned.

 

[gordonearl]

I think part of the reason for the decline is Iowa not being able to defend wide open offenses that have QBs that can run. These teams are hard to defend. Iowa offense has not kept up.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

I think part of the reason for the decline is Iowa not being able to defend wide open offenses that have QBs that can run. These teams are hard to defend. Iowa offense has not kept up.

It's not defense - our defense over the past decade ranks remarkably.

It's the offense we can't score the way you need to in college football.

 

[BackNBlk]

With all due respect...I never said anything about his recruiting or how Snyder went about building a winner. I simply stated facts he took K-State and made them a legit power, he left they fell down, he came back and they knock of Oklahoma and they are back. I was simply stating the man can flat out coach!!!! No one can deny that, I never said get into a recruiting cycle of JUCO players.

Easy there. I wasn't trying to bash you. He's a good coach, but the circumstances are a little different. He also played in a conference that was not as tough and deep as the Big 10. I think he's actually doing better now than before because the Big 12 is much deeper than it has ever been and they have been able to play everyone tough.

 

[SpiderRico]

It's not defense - our defense over the past decade ranks remarkably.

It's the offense we can't score the way you need to in college football.

It's 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other. Could our offense score more if our defense didn't consistently allow 10, 12, 15, 18 play drives? Could our defense stop the opposition more often if our offense limited it's 3 and outs? Probably a little of both.

The offense has certainly had it's share of issues, no doubt. But over the past 2 years, plus this year, the defense has consistently failed to protect 4th quarter leads. All the stats in the world don't matter if, when you are a team that relies on it's defense to make stops and the offense gives the defense a 4th quarter lead, that defense can't rise to the ocassion when it matters. Just look at 2010....Arizona, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Ohio State and Minnesota....we had 4th quarter leads in all those games and we failed to stop the opposition. You can do the same thing in 2011. Good stats or not, a rock solid defense rises up when the game's on the line.

 

[BackNBlk]

I think part of the reason for the decline is Iowa not being able to defend wide open offenses that have QBs that can run. These teams are hard to defend. Iowa offense has not kept up.

Yes and no. On the yes side, people complain about the four games Kirk has lost to Indiana, but who were the QBs of those teams? Antwaan Randle El and Kellen Lewis. Northwestern always seems to have mobile QBs that give us trouble. However, on the no side we have done a good job against Michigan's mobile QBs and even held Illinois to half their season average in rushing back in 2007 when they had Juice Williams. That was a pretty good year for them and not so much for us. It's really hard to built a gameplan to consistently stop the read option unless you have LOTS of speed.

I would disagree that the Iowa offense hasn't kept up. The best defense against the spread option is a strong ground attack. You keep pounding the ball and eating up the clock. The last thing you want is a wide open offense where you end up in a shootout.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Look where our offense and our defense rank over the last 10 years or so... and you have your answer.

 

[HawkeyeMcNutt]

the first page of this thread has mad far too much sense and has far too much reasonable understanding of our situation that I feel as though I'm not reading this on HN..

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Look where our offense and our defense rank over the last 10 years or so... and you have your answer.

True. If there is one unit to point at as being "the problem", it's the offense first and foremost. But certainly there were times (see 2010) where the defense could not get off the field in the 4th quarter, was tired, etc. Iowa has pretty consistently been losing the time-of-possession stat and # of plays run per game.

That could be a couple of things:

1. The offense being unable to stay on the field
2. The defense being unable to get OFF the field
3. Or a combination of the two

I personally lean towards #3. The defense has been good, but although it typically doesn't give up a lot of points, they sure do allow quite a few plays and yardage. Bend-dont-break. The defense has never been geared towards getting alot of 3-and-outs, but instead "don't give up anything big", keep everything in front of you and make the opposing offense execute to perfection. Teams can dink & dunk against our D, which results in quite a few plays & TOP. The longer the D is on the field, the less opportunities the offense has.

That said, the offense has pretty much ranged from anywhere between average and atrocious over the past decade +.

 

[DJL]

Good post. I was one of those who wanted Mr. Davis out,and I was dead wrong. BB is easier to rebound from a dip,also. Football programs that get down take years to turn around. We have a man at the helm who has taken us to success. I honestly think that there is zero serious contemplation of removing KF anytime soon in the administrative offices at Iowa. We might have a losing season...it happens,but it will take a series of losing seasons to seriously consider buying out KF.

Losing seasons stink,but sometimes a fanbase might need a cold slap back to reality. Iowa is the single worst football producing state for any BCS school ,including Nebraska with two BCS schools to split the talent up....get real,gang.

KF can frustrate us all,but that is the nature of sport....roll with it.

Losing seasons happen, sure, I get that. But look at the schedule man! We've already lost to Iowa State and a terrible Central Michigan team from the MAC. The Big 10 is as bad as I can remember it being, and we are very much towards the bottom. With the resources Iowa has, and the amount of time KF has been there, I don't see how this is acceptable. But hey "that's football." Puke.

 

[DJL]

For the record, I'm not saying KF should be fired, we owe him too much money, and I do think it's somewhat possible he has some good seasons left at Iowa. Not to mention, I would prefer we had a real AD make the next hiring decision not the empty suit that resides in IC right now.