Jon's new article

[Joshbrown]

They are not ordained...but they typically have a few things in common, like in business.

EARLY ADOPTERS: In the sports sense, they were very successful early and often...those traditions attracted others..and have made those places as destinations....continued success at the highest level over decades. I would put UCLA, Indiana, UNC, Duke, MSU, Kansas in this level..probably forgetting a few more.

CHALLENGERS: I's rare when someone can come in and compete at the highest of high levels from outside the early adopter class...sorry, come in and compete and STAY THERE

Here are some examples..some came in and went toe to toe for a long while, and faded..some have not faded...

UConn, Georgetown, Wisconsin, Cincy, Purdue, Louisville, Seton Hall, Arizona, Memphis, St Johns, Syracuse....

For a decade, 1979-1988, Iowa had an average B1G finish of 3.5....in a 10 team league...one of the best 10 year stretches in school history....they also had a good but shorter runs in the 50's, and shorter still in the Late 60's...there are several more programs like this...but they cannot sustain it...the hope is to move from this last group into the challenger group....which is not easy at all...but to go from this group to be on part year in year out with the elite of the elite, who are also not immune to blips, is nigh on impossible.

So I choose not to toss pennies into the wishing well and waste time, and spend time thinking about what can be done to go from the here and gone, to more consistently here, and cross fingers to get into the challengers...but I am not betting on it.

I will reply this way.
It would be foolish to say it is easy to be Duke or Alabama. Success isn't easy, even for the bluebloods.
But I look at Wisky in both sports. In the last 25 years they have built something.
How? Where's the history?
I say they did it on the sheer determination of guys like Barry Alvarez.
Literally one man's will over-coming the odds.
Maybe you're right and Iowa will always be lil ole iowa. But you tell your kids they can grow up to be President some day, even if you think otherwise. I admit, not every parent works that way. Some of them say, "Cletus, you need to shoot for that job at the post office, and if you're ever lucky enough to get it, for goodness sake hold on to it. Cuz that's as high as you're goin son."
I just come from a world where your reach should exceed your grasp, or what's heaven for?

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/robert_browning_108884

 

[InGoodCo]

Which the Iowa media did not see coming...but the national media picked Iowa 9th and 10th and 11th...they knew something we didn't. Still miffed about that

No upper class stand outs - it's important in college basketball - specifically at a program like Iowa's. ie... not one of the best 8 jobs in the conference.

 

[DodgerHawki]

Whenever I hear this argument, I just pull out the ultimate trump card. Wisconsin.

I have never once heard a rational argument on why Iowa can’t strive for the excellence that Wisconsin has. I haven’t, and I suspect I won’t.

Madison is a slightly nicer city, but for the most part the two schools are not that much different. Both midwestern schools who recruit the same area. Until the last 20 years I think Iowa had a better tradition in both football and basketball. So what changed?

They created a culture that demands success. Their Ad demands it, their media demands it, and their fans demand it. Their athletic department is running absolute circles around Iowa. It hasn’t been one coach or great instate talent, it’s been a culture of consistent success in both major sports over the last 10+ years.

I live in Madison and I’m around these people every day. There are fans literally calling for Gard’s head. This is following four strait runs of the sweet 16 or better, Includind two with Gard, and having two major injuries on the current team. Could you imagine Iowa in that situation? Now Gard will probably get next year but you can bet your bottom dollar if he misses the tournament two years in a row he’s gone. Their AD has stones and demands winning.

So can you or anyone explain to me why Iowa can’t do what Wisconsin is doing?

Did Wisconsin create a culture that demands success? Or did they hire the right coaches in Bo Ryan and Alvarez?
To address your question, Wisconsin does have the advantage of a state with 5.8M people compared to 3M in Iowa. And the Badgers are clearly the flagship program in the state. Marquette is in the ACC, but Wisconsin is much more clearly seen as the program of choice as compared to Iowa and Iowa State.

Of course the expectations are different for Gard than they are for Fran, given the last 15 years of what's gone on at Wisconsin. If they can him next year if he doesn't make tourney, and they bring in another coach who makes the tournament 3 times in 5 years, does that mean Wisconsin "demands success" any less than they did before? Or does it mean that they hired coaches who weren't as good as Ryan?

 

[mopkins]

I don't understand why Indiana is supposed to be better than Iowa in basketball. It's not that way in football, so why is it that way in basketball?
If you say they have built something, I would agree. But they built something based on coaches with high standards. And those coaches are not limited to certain schools.
Why has Illinois under-performed so much? Large population, so why? I would argue it starts at the top. Just like at every other school it starts at the top.

EDIT: I'll even expand it into forbidden territory. Japan is an economic super-power. Why? It's not because of natural resources. The UK was a super-power for centuries. Small Island with minimal resources dominated for a long time. Why? I say it's because they saw themselves as a giant. That's just ambition and self-esteem winning the day.

I get what you're saying...Iowa doesn't dream big, Iowa doesn't expect big things...therefore Iowa doesn't do big things. However, whats your solution? $12,000,000 a year to Mike Tomlin to lure him away from the Steelers?

you say the same thing almost constantly...and yet you don't offer any sort of solutions. What coach would you bring to Iowa, what would you pay them annually, where do you recruit out of, and what benchmarks do you set for that coach as grounds for termination if they aren't meeting expectations? This goes for football or basketball. What would YOU do...specifically...to make Iowa a blue blood school? Just dream big and demand big and hope someone else does it for you?

 

[tksirius]

Yeah, they are absolutely an outlier freak example, I grant you that and just talked about it a bit in another post. But this sort of breaking through the barrier is just so rare...but perhaps, since they did it in two sports, it has a lot to do with the right leadership.

I knew you'd come around.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Did Wisconsin create a culture that demands success? Or did they hire the right coaches in Bo Ryan and Alvarez?
To address your question, Wisconsin does have the advantage of a state with 5.8M people compared to 3M in Iowa. And the Badgers are clearly the flagship program in the state. Marquette is in the ACC, but Wisconsin is much more clearly seen as the program of choice as compared to Iowa and Iowa State.

Of course the expectations are different for Gard than they are for Fran, given the last 15 years of what's gone on at Wisconsin. If they can him next year if he doesn't make tourney, and they bring in another coach who makes the tournament 3 times in 5 years, does that mean Wisconsin "demands success" any less than they did before? Or does it mean that they hired coaches who weren't as good as Ryan?

Dick Bennett went to the tournament 3 out of 5 years including a final 4. That was before Bo. They’ve had the same success in football with the last three coaches. So I do think it’s the culture. Their basketball program was bound to come down a little but I don’t see them slowing down much overall. Heck even in their down year this year they are better than Iowa.

Even with all this said, they are steamrolling Iowa. They are winning 10 games a year in football to our 7 or 8. They’ve been to more sweet 16s in the last 5 years than we will probably see in a lifetime at Iowa, so long as our fan base and donors are okay with what we see today. The Iowa athletic department knows what it has. A fanbase that doesn’t have another team to turn to and will continue to buy tickets as long as we are just okay.

 

[kicker22]

No upper class stand outs - it's important in college basketball - specifically at a program like Iowa's. ie... not one of the best 8 jobs in the conference.

But no upper class stand outs because he whiffed in recruiting. It still comes back to Fran. Is it accurate, sure but it's still on him. If I'm a coach that depends on player development, I make damn sure I address what needs to be addressed in recruiting and make sure I don't miss two seasons in a row. Fran depends on upperclassmen to succeed yet finds himself depending on underclassmen this far along. He knows years in advance what he's going to need. Its not like pros where a player is signed for so many years. If I'm coaching a developmental program dependent on upperclassmen I've got 1-2 seasons to find the pieces to the puzzle. I can't get to a third consecutive year with question marks in the roster that should have been previously addressed, knowing I'm most likely not bringing in freshman (year in and year out) ready to carry a program.

 

[JonDMiller]

I will reply this way.
It would be foolish to say it is easy to be Duke or Alabama. Success isn't easy, even for the bluebloods.
But I look at Wisky in both sports. In the last 25 years they have built something.
How? Where's the history?
I say they did it on the sheer determination of guys like Barry Alvarez.
Literally one man's will over-coming the odds.

I will get halfway with you. I think leadership like Barry's is a must at a place like Iowa if it is going to challenge to get to the next level and stay there.

 

[JonDMiller]

I knew you'd come around.

LOL

Man, why didn't we just start with the Athletic Department?

I think Fran is a good coach..I think he has made mistakes constructing this roster...and it is causing pain...but I am willing to give him a mulligan...but this goal and hope of moving to the next level of program consistently, I think Fran can be the guy to steer the ship....but I question the commander of the fleet

 

[tksirius]

I will get halfway with you. I think leadership like Barry's is a must at a place like Iowa if it is going to challenge to get to the next level and stay there.

I heard Jon say "fire Gary Barta."

 

[Joshbrown]

I will get halfway with you. I think leadership like Barry's is a must at a place like Iowa if it is going to challenge to get to the next level and stay there.

This says a lot about me . . .
. . . none of it good

 

[tksirius]

LOL

Man, why didn't we just start with the Athletic Department?

I think Fran is a good coach..I think he has made mistakes constructing this roster...and it is causing pain...but I am willing to give him a mulligan...but this goal and hope of moving to the next level of program consistently, I think Fran can be the guy to steer the ship....but I question the commander of the fleet

Fair enough, but have you seen Fran's "Building a championship defense" video?

 

[NikeHawk21]

Yeah, they are absolutely an outlier freak example, I grant you that and just talked about it a bit in another post. But this sort of breaking through the barrier is just so rare...but perhaps, since they did it in two sports, it has a lot to do with the right leadership.

Bingo.

I do think there is a certain level of content in the Iowa athletic department, I really do. People may disagree but that’s how I feel.

The athletic department knows that they will continue to fill Kinnick on Saturday’s with what we have. People aren’t going to stop going to Iowa games because quite honestly there isn’t much else to do, so I can’t blame them for that.

 

[Hawk5656]

I think it's pretty likely we will be looking for a coach after next year if we don't do it this season. I'd rather hop on someone like Musselman now or get Crean before someone else takes them instead of losing another year and some possible great candidates and having to settle.

 

[InGoodCo]

But no upper class stand outs because he whiffed in recruiting. It still comes back to Fran. Is it accurate, sure but it's still on him. If I'm a coach that depends on player development, I make damn sure address what needs to be addressed in recruiting and make sure I don't miss two seasons in a row. Fran depends on upperclassmen to succeed yet finds himself depending on underclassmen this far along. He knows years in advance what he's going to need. Its not like pros where a player is signed for so many years. If I'm coaching a developmental program dependent on upperclassmen I've got 1-2 seasons to find the pieces to the puzzle. I can't get to a third consecutive year with question marks in the roster that should have been previously addressed, knowing I'm most likely not bringing in freshman (year in and year out) ready to carry a program.

yes 100% on Fran - i've said this so many times it's like I am a broken record. Fran had a nice run to start right? With Marble, White, Uthoff, Jok etc.(even if you don't want to give him credit for any of that like so many on here don't want to do, it's laughable in my opinion) - Uhl's class was brought in when they hadn't made an NCAA tournament since 2006 and Bear's class fell apart either to departure (recruiting misses) and Moss RS. They committed to Iowa after they lost in the first 4 NCAA game. ... NOW, If Fran would have chased those 2 classes with poor classes on top of those I would have more concern. But personally I think sophomore class has Jordan and Cook - which I think are hits and both will be good 4 year players unless Cook decides he's done with school... last years class which I am still very high on Garza and Nunge... and next years class with Wieskamp and Connor. Without those 3 classes I would be in the fire Fran camp - but he's got the best kids in the state to stay home, he's started pulling in some out of state top kids (Cook, Nunge and Garza) and that's reason enough (for me) to give him a longer leash.

 

[InGoodCo]

I think it's pretty likely we will be looking for a coach after next year if we don't do it this season. I'd rather hop on someone like Musselman now or get Crean before someone else takes them instead of losing another year and some possible great candidates and having to settle.

This is the only season where good coaches will be available to coach basketball after the season is over. There'll be none left after this year.

 

[Hawk5656]

This is the only season where good coaches will be available to coach basketball after the season is over. There'll be none left after this year.

I think Musselman or Crean would be big upgrades and they will both be available after this year. Who knows who will be there after next year.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I think Fran is a good coach..I think he has made mistakes constructing this roster...and it is causing pain...but I am willing to give him a mulligan...but this goal and hope of moving to the next level of program consistently, I think Fran can be the guy to steer the ship....but I question the commander of the fleet

Here is the problem. This roster ain’t changing much next year. This is the roster we are stuck with. The next time we will really see a new roster or a “mulligan” if you will won’t be until the 2019-2020 season. Are we willing to wait that long? If your stance (some posters on here not necessarily you) is if he doesn’t make the tournament next year than we let him go and we don’t make the tournament next year, not only are we setting ourselves back an entire year, but we are also likely blowing up the 2019 recruiting class.

 

[kicker22]

yes 100% on Fran - i've said this so many times it's like I am a broken record. Fran had a nice run to start right? With Marble, White, Uthoff, Jok etc.(even if you don't want to give him credit for any of that like so many on here don't want to do, it's laughable in my opinion) - Uhl's class was brought in when they hadn't made an NCAA tournament since 2006 and Bear's class fell apart either to departure (recruiting misses) and Moss RS. They committed to Iowa after they lost in the first 4 NCAA game. ... NOW, If Fran would have chased those 2 classes with poor classes on top of those I would have more concern. But personally I think sophomore class has Jordan and Cook - which I think are hits and both will be good 4 year players unless Cook decides he's done with school... last years class which I am still very high on Garza and Nunge... and next years class with Wieskamp and Connor. Without those 3 classes I would be in the fire Fran camp - but he's got the best kids in the state to stay home, he's started pulling in some out of state top kids (Cook, Nunge and Garza) and that's reason enough (for me) to give him a longer leash.

My concern is neither Cook nor Jordan are good enough right now to carry a team that lacks experience and I don't think they have the role players in place that Marble, White, and Uthoff had. If we can't right the ship this year, which we most likely won't and next year is no better than Fran may not have the opportunity to see if it pans out because he may be out of a job before their senior years. I guess my biggest concern though is that we're bringing in what seems like the exact same players every year. Why does it seem like we're bringing in a PG every 3-4 years when we should have one coming in atleast every other.

 

[kicker22]

yes 100% on Fran - i've said this so many times it's like I am a broken record. Fran had a nice run to start right? With Marble, White, Uthoff, Jok etc.(even if you don't want to give him credit for any of that like so many on here don't want to do, it's laughable in my opinion) - Uhl's class was brought in when they hadn't made an NCAA tournament since 2006 and Bear's class fell apart either to departure (recruiting misses) and Moss RS. They committed to Iowa after they lost in the first 4 NCAA game. ... NOW, If Fran would have chased those 2 classes with poor classes on top of those I would have more concern. But personally I think sophomore class has Jordan and Cook - which I think are hits and both will be good 4 year players unless Cook decides he's done with school... last years class which I am still very high on Garza and Nunge... and next years class with Wieskamp and Connor. Without those 3 classes I would be in the fire Fran camp - but he's got the best kids in the state to stay home, he's started pulling in some out of state top kids (Cook, Nunge and Garza) and that's reason enough (for me) to give him a longer leash.

I really wish I shared your optimism. I just feel like I've been seeing the same trends with getting the best available players rather than the players we need.