Jon's new article

[HawkGold]

Jon, you compared FM to Painter. Matt had a 4 year run of winning 102 games and the next year was pretty darned good prior to his 8th year. They aren't comparable.

What is obvious...this team doesn't play D. He teams always struggle with this. To compare to Davis' teams, isn't a comparison.

The team is bad on fundamentals. His own son's do NOT have proper shooting form unless you are playing Iowa high school basketball when it was 6 player. It's a push shot. Who teaches them?

His roster has deep challenges. He wants to do motion and aside from JBo, he doesn't have motion players at all.

His bringing CM on board to be point guard might work if he had a roster to go with it other than JBo.

He is either building this team to show off his sons or he really doesn't know what he is doing. Either way this is very likely to end badly. The down side is that if he is gone, it will be a couple of years of dismal basketball regardless such as what IL is seeing. What we have now has a certain entertainment value to it.

 

[earlkoppelman]

That’s where everyone’s wrong. There’s not a huge amount of talent. The recruiting hype and high school film (which is crap for predicting college performance, btw) made you think there’s all kinds of talent, but there isn’t.

If there were “so much talent,” we wouldn’t be having this thread.

You could be onto something.Players not in correct very unhelpful no?

That’s where everyone’s wrong. There’s not a huge amount of talent. The recruiting hype and high school film (which is crap for predicting college performance, btw) made you think there’s all kinds of talent, but there isn’t.

If there were “so much talent,” we wouldn’t be having this thread.

That’s where everyone’s wrong. There’s not a huge amount of talent. The recruiting hype and high school film (which is crap for predicting college performance, btw) made you think there’s all kinds of talent, but there isn’t.

If there were “so much talent,” we wouldn’t be having this thread.

 

[InGoodCo]

If we finish 2-16 or 3-15 ish, then make the NIT next year, will that be a sign that the program is back on the upswing or will that not be good enough as it would be three years in a row without a trip to the dance?

Don't see us being an NCAA team next year.

I think Fran gets next season. That's it. I don't know how anyone can say "i don't see us in the NCAA next year" realistically. All of us saw Iowa IN the NCAA tournament this year right? I don't think you can definitively say one way or the other. Who knows what's gonna happen in the off season. Fran might push a couple guys out, Geno Crandall from North Dakota is a possible senior transfer and may come to Iowa. Cook might bolt for the NBA even though he stands no chance but try telling him that. Connor and Joe may be terrific. Who knows? With me, in my personal opinion, Fran has built enough good will to get a season to fix it. That's not a defeatest attitude, that's not wanting to blow up the foundation that was being laid and looked bright to most Hawkeye fans in October. If you want him fired, I get it and you're welcome to that opinion. But if you think Fran has no pressure to win ... that's laughable. I think he puts a ton of pressure on himself to win. They are miserable right now.

 

[Fryowa]

I think many share your opinion.
Here's my take.
George Raveling leaves Iowa and Tom Davis goes to the Elite 8. The difference? Coaching. Hungry coaches eager to prove themselves get more done.

I don’t disagree totally. I do think that even with Tom Davis coaching this squad, it’s blood out of a turnip. Fran’s shortcomings are making it worse no doubt, but I don’t see this team making the NCAA under anyone.

People drank the AAU game film Kool Aid and forgot that these guys were playing high school athletes who in a lot of cases wouldn’t start on Luther’s intramural teams. Of course they all look like LeBron.

 

[HawksMN]

The lazy play and bad D are really telling signs
One more year...mediocre or worse cut the line. And that's being generous.

 

[SheagleHawk]

The last minute last night is why I'm ready to move on. I think it's perfectly fine to have down years (even if it does happen in a coach's 8th sesson). But this team quits like nothing I've ever seen from a D1 team. If this team wasn't full of quitters when the going gets tough, we would be having a down year and still be on the bubble. Instead we are the worst team in the conference by a wide margin.

What about the other 35-38 mins of the game where we generally trail 10-20pts in every game? Sorry but that's not quitting. That's a gigantic talent gap between the other teams we're playing. Yeah this team quits, but the reason we blow is bc outside of Cook, no one else in our team gets meaningful minutes anywhere else in the conference or major team. That is on Fran, and that is why Fran's ass should be shown the door.

 

[PCHawk]

If a coach blindly pushes the pace 100 miles an hour reguardless of what he sees on the court or what his roster looks like, that's not a good sign.

 

[Joshbrown]

I don’t disagree totally. I do think that even with Tom Davis coaching this squad, it’s blood out of a turnip. Fran’s shortcomings are making it worse no doubt, but I don’t see this team making the NCAA under anyone.

People drank the AAU game film Kool Aid and forgot that these guys were playing high school athletes who in a lot of cases wouldn’t start on Luther’s intramural teams. Of course they all look like LeBron.

One thing is for sure.
If the team lacks talent in year 8, that is a fireable offense imo.
otoh
If the team indeed does have talent and isn't producing, that is also a fireable offense.
Either way, those pushing "he's built up good will let's keep him" have mistaken the basketball program for a Charity set up to benefit one person. That's become a common theme under Barta's leadership.

 

[HawkGold]

I think many share your opinion.
Here's my take.
George Raveling leaves Iowa and Tom Davis goes to the Elite 8. The difference? Coaching. Hungry coaches eager to prove themselves get more done.

Raveling did well with bringing players that Lute likely wouldn't have recruited. He had advantages to talk with and recruit certain kids. Gamble and Horton are going to Illinois without Raveling. Raveling wasn't a terrific bench coach.

Bruce Weber is one of the best coaches at coaching and developing players who have talent. He can't maintain recruiting anywhere. Davis's offensive set reminds me a lot of FM's in many respects except for exploiting the baseline and bounce passes. They could work inside and had players who could go to the hoop. Defense had the press.

It's not about hunger. It's about ability. Fran struggles with recruiting, game coaching, fundamentals and emotional management. Some coaches can overcome enough of those to do OK. FM does not.

Take away Uthoff or Jok and Woody (whose presence helped on D though he had terrible fundamentals) and FM has a miserable record. Davis lost Street, Kingsbury, and Davis and still did much better. He also had key injuries that FM hasn't had to deal with as much.

 

[InGoodCo]

No pressure to win with Iowa Basketball? Lick got 3 years. It was train wreck, but that's pretty quick. This staff is feeling pressure. I have 0 doubts.

 

[PCHawk]

What about the other 35-38 mins of the game where we generally trail 10-20pts in every game? Sorry but that's not quitting. That's a gigantic talent gap between the other teams we're playing. Yeah this team quits, but the reason we blow is bc outside of Cook, no one else in our team gets meaningful minutes anywhere else in the conference or major team. That is on Fran, and that is why Fran's ass should be shown the door.

We shot terrible most of the game. Like I've said in previous posts, I am ok with having down years. Unless we have a hall of fame coach, the players that will be brought in are hit and miss. Sometimes a coach will string together some hits and make a good run. Sometimes he will string together some misses and have down years. I'm ok with that.

What I'm not ok is having a team comprised of "misses" that don't even try half of the time on the court. You would think that the worse the player, the harder they try. That's kinda how it works for the most part.

 

[PCHawk]

Also people tall about Lute and they talk about Wisconsin under Ryan. But those were hall of fame coaches. So when people say we can be good because we were under Lute, they have to remember that it took a hall of fame coach to get us there. What are the odds we find a hall of fame coach? What are the odds he doesn't bolt for another program if we do find one?

 

[kicker22]

So I'm just trying to make sure I understand some of the mindset I've read so far in this thread...
-This team is tanking.
-Next year is not going to be any better.
-Fran should get the benefit of another season because of where the program was when he took over despite those two reasons listed above.

So the goal is to slowly revert back to where we were when Fran took over the program. Give him another year, regardless of the downward trend and the belief that we most likely won't be a better team, but want to be sure we land his current recruiting class that still doesn't address the areas of concern. Then let him go if he can't turn things around and get the program back off the ground?

Just curious, but I don't understand the logic behind praising Fran for taking over Lick's mess, but then keeping him around long enough to potentially create that same mess for the next coach. If its not working and there is major concern that things are trending back to where we previously were, then why not support the idea of cutting ties to avoid erasing anything positive he'd done to lift up the program and putting us in the exact same spot we were in 8 years ago?

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I think Fran gets next season. That's it. I don't know how anyone can say "i don't see us in the NCAA next year" realistically. All of us saw Iowa IN the NCAA tournament this year right? I don't think you can definitively say one way or the other. Who knows what's gonna happen in the off season. Fran might push a couple guys out, Geno Crandall from North Dakota is a possible senior transfer and may come to Iowa. Cook might bolt for the NBA even though he stands no chance but try telling him that. Connor and Joe may be terrific. Who knows? With me, in my personal opinion, Fran has built enough good will to get a season to fix it. That's not a defeatest attitude, that's not wanting to blow up the foundation that was being laid and looked bright to most Hawkeye fans in October. If you want him fired, I get it and you're welcome to that opinion. But if you think Fran has no pressure to win ... that's laughable. I think he puts a ton of pressure on himself to win. They are miserable right now.

I kinda lean your way. Assuming the rest of this season is a dumpster fire. The off season could be interesting and not in a good way. I was really hoping this year could be salvaged as of a couple weeks ago but not now. Losing is taking a toll on them. Their body language and effort is terrible. It's easy to ride the wave when things are going your way. To flip that is really tough. It'll be tougher than it would have been anyway if say they finished in the middle of the pack as opposed to the bottom. The attrition this team will end up having will be interesting and it's the big unknown at this point...

 

[earlkoppelman]

mopkins is one of the worst . . . he's one of those who is a fan of the coach first and program second . . . fans like him ruin programs

That is so True in football.YIKES.But Fran&Co. seem real.Probably are.Want the best for them but us Fans want Wins.Like we need them Only a game.

mopkins is one of the worst . . . he's one of those who is a fan of the coach first and program second . . . fans like him ruin programs

And Football Coach BEYOND over Top.UGH.

 

[kicker22]

Also people tall about Lute and they talk about Wisconsin under Ryan. But those were hall of fame coaches. So when people say we can be good because we were under Lute, they have to remember that it took a hall of fame coach to get us there. What are the odds we find a hall of fame coach? What are the odds he doesn't bolt for another program if we do find one?

If he "bolts" for another program he's most likely going to do it when things are clicking on all cylinders. If we lose one, so be it, but in doing so it means the coach most likely has the program in a good place and you find another coach you hope can sustain that success. While losing a HOF coach or future HOF coach hurts, it doesn't hurt nearly as much as starting from the bottom and having to work your way out of a hole.

 

[Fryowa]

I think Fran gets next season. That's it. I don't know how anyone can say "i don't see us in the NCAA next year" realistically. All of us saw Iowa IN the NCAA tournament this year right? I don't think you can definitively say one way or the other. Who knows what's gonna happen in the off season. Fran might push a couple guys out, Geno Crandall from North Dakota is a possible senior transfer and may come to Iowa. Cook might bolt for the NBA even though he stands no chance but try telling him that. Connor and Joe may be terrific. Who knows? With me, in my personal opinion, Fran has built enough good will to get a season to fix it. That's not a defeatest attitude, that's not wanting to blow up the foundation that was being laid and looked bright to most Hawkeye fans in October. If you want him fired, I get it and you're welcome to that opinion. But if you think Fran has no pressure to win ... that's laughable. I think he puts a ton of pressure on himself to win. They are miserable right now.

The reason no one sees Iowa in the dance in '19 is that it'll be the same team as this year, presumably under the same coaching and same scheme. There is no logical or tangible reason to think they'll make a tourney next year. These guys aren't going to magically up their skill level 50% over the summer and get 4th or 5th in the B1G, it doesn't work like that. I get that no one can predict it, but on the same hand if you're going to venture a guess you have to go by something, and that something isn't any different than this year.

I also think that the fans saying "But we have to wait for Joe and Pat!!!" (I know, not you) should remember that everyone said the same thing about Garza and others. I don't care if there's film of them blowing up AAU teams for 30 a game. 99% of those kids won't even see a D-II court without buying a ticket.

 

[Joshbrown]

If he "bolts" for another program he's most likely going to do it when things are clicking on all cylinders. If we lose one, so be it, but in doing so it means the coach most likely has the program in a good place and you find another coach you hope can sustain that success. While losing a HOF coach or future HOF coach hurts, it doesn't hurt nearly as much as starting from the bottom and having to work your way out of a hole.

PC is presenting you with a straw man
"We can have a coach who keeps Iowa irrelevant or a HOF coach."
Like those are the only two options.
A coach who makes Iowa relevant may or may not be a HOFamer. But he would be better than Fran.
Can we get someone better than Fran? The answer is yes, but first you have to want better. Notice how PC keeps saying he is okay with down seasons. 3 ncaa visits mean 5 outa 8 years are down. Why would anyone be okay with that??

 

[kicker22]

PC is presenting you with a straw man
"We can have a coach who keeps Iowa irrelevant or a HOF coach."
Like those are the only two options.
A coach who makes Iowa relevant may or may not be a HOFamer. But he would be better than Fran.
Can we get someone better than Fran? The answer is yes, but first you have to want better. Notice how PC keeps saying he is okay with down seasons. 3 ncaa visits mean 5 outa 8 years are down. Why would anyone be okay with that??

I just don't understand the logic (and not pointing this toward PC) of those that seem to think that any coach we bring in needs to be here for the long haul. If we bring in an up and coming coach that wants to use the program as a stepping stool to move on to a better position, who cares. We can enjoy the ride and when its over maybe take a step back, but if were taking multiple steps forward and making progress and continue to do that with each coach along the way so what, were still making progress. As a program we cannot afford to take 2 steps forward and then take 2 steps back to end up exactly where we were when we hired Fran. Fran got things headed in the right direction after Lick, but if the program is in the exact same state when he leaves as it was when he took over, he's nothing more than Lick 2.0.

 

[PCHawk]

Raveling did well with bringing players that Lute likely wouldn't have recruited. He had advantages to talk with and recruit certain kids. Gamble and Horton are going to Illinois without Raveling. Raveling wasn't a terrific bench coach.

Bruce Weber is one of the best coaches at coaching and developing players who have talent. He can't maintain recruiting anywhere. Davis's offensive set reminds me a lot of FM's in many respects except for exploiting the baseline and bounce passes. They could work inside and had players who could go to the hoop. Defense had the press.

It's not about hunger. It's about ability. Fran struggles with recruiting, game coaching, fundamentals and emotional management. Some coaches can overcome enough of those to do OK. FM does not.

Take away Uthoff or Jok and Woody (whose presence helped on D though he had terrible fundamentals) and FM has a miserable record. Davis lost Street, Kingsbury, and Davis and still did much better. He also had key injuries that FM hasn't had to deal with as much.

I don't think "taking away good players" is a very good arguement.