JBO vs. JT

Hillcrest1981

Hillcrest1981

Well-Known Member
Not to be negative in such a great start to the season but we have two point guards that have weaknesses. Yes JBO can go off for 24 like he did against UNC but watching NIU guards blow past JBO into the lane is always concerning. JT can stay in front of his man but how many times against NIU do we have to watch him lose the ball and fall to the floor. I think JT can reel it in but there is nothing JBO can do to improve his defense. Is there?
 
Hillcrest1981 said:
Not to be negative in such a great start to the season but we have two point guards that have weaknesses. Yes JBO can go off for 24 like he did against UNC but watching NIU guards blow past JBO into the lane is always concerning. JT can stay in front of his man but how many times against NIU do we have to watch him lose the ball and fall to the floor. I think JT can reel it in but there is nothing JBO can do to improve his defense. Is there?
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He is not out there for his defense, his other attributes greatly out weigh his defensive issues. NIU guards can blow past him all day when we are winning by 50 points. What did North Carolina's 4 and 5 star guys do to him? Let me tell ya before ya look it up. It doesn't matter, because he's not out there for D. Our coach, who's a pretty good coach, knows about Jbo's defensive issues probably more so than any of us, yet coach still plays him. He still plays him a lot. Why? I bet I know the answer. Cause his defense literally doesn't matter. Like at all. So, who cares?
 
Jordan is essential

In close games the last 4/5 minutes

For his game savvy, ball control and free throw %

Along with Connor, who has the very same qualities, we have the ability to win the close ones

When scoring is desperately needed in a close game

He must be on the floor with Freddy and JoeW

And, of course, Garza

JoetT is getting better and better. He has serious Attitude and backs down
to Nobody. He is becoming a scoring threat and his D is the best on the team.

By the way: The 5 freshmen on the floor are really fun to watch. They are very intense on offense and defense. Murray, Perkins and Ulis play tight mobile D.

Really good to see PMac start scoring. He is going to be a factor as the season goes on

It's All Good

:cool:
 
Oh great. Another ridiculous JBO hate thread. AHHHHHHH!!!

Oh well, I am comforted that Fran does not make decisions on starters/minutes from odd takes on message boards. He tends to favor a 4 year starter who has proven his value on the court by being the best 3 point shooter in school history and has literally won games for Iowa, and not a really good looking young point guard who has great potential, but many holes in his game. Silly Fran.....
 
OK, yes agreed that BO is not out there for his defense. Is there anything he can do to step up his defensive game? JT can be told and will learn to play more under control. Less dribbling and more passing. Is there a defensive stat that measures how many times you whiff and a guy dribbles right by you? If not, there should be.
 
InGoodCo said:
He is not out there for his defense, his other attributes greatly out weigh his defensive issues. NIU guards can blow past him all day when we are winning by 50 points. What did North Carolina's 4 and 5 star guys do to him? Let me tell ya before ya look it up. It doesn't matter, because he's not out there for D. Our coach, who's a pretty good coach, knows about Jbo's defensive issues probably more so than any of us, yet coach still plays him. He still plays him a lot. Why? I bet I know the answer. Cause his defense literally doesn't matter. Like at all. So, who cares?
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If you look at their stats per 40 (which eliminates discrepancies in playing time), JT has by far been the better player this year. There's zero question that per minute they're on the floor Joe T has been more productive by a long ways. He's also disruptive on the defensive side of the ball as well which just adds to the disparity.

Capture.jpg


I know you're a huge JBo fan and if you're just gonna ride or die with your guy I get it 100%. But there's no way to dispute the stats. If you're going to use past performance as a gauge it doesn't work either. We don't win ball games on JBo's clutch shots that happened in previous seasons.

Will it stay this way all year? I have no idea. But when the rubber meets the road, making clutch shots and going bananas from three in games that happened two years ago doesn't earn you hall passes.

At a certain point if Joe T keeps playing better, what is the rationale for him not getting more of Bohannon's minutes? Is it..."because he made a lot of clutch threes a couple years ago?" That'd be pretty ridiculous.

Gonzaga and conference play will tell a lot.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
Oh great. Another ridiculous JBO hate thread. AHHHHHHH!!!

Oh well, I am comforted that Fran does not make decisions on starters/minutes from odd takes on message boards. He tends to favor a 4 year starter who has proven his value on the court by being the best 3 point shooter in school history and has literally won games for Iowa, and not a really good looking young point guard who has great potential, but many holes in his game. Silly Fran.....
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It's not a JBo hate thread. But there are a lot of posters here with a flair for the dramatic who would like you to think it is. Some people are such huge fans of the guy that when you suggest he might be the sixth best player on the team, all of a sudden they make it out to be that you're trying to say he sucks, or that he should get run out of town, or that he should be banned from the game of basketball, or trying to kick his dog.

I like Bohannon. But I think Joe T is a better point guard right now. That's not me hating the guy (unless you're an overdramatic person, of course).
 
Fryowa said:
It's not a JBo hate thread. But there are a lot of posters here with a flair for the dramatic who would like you to think it is. Some people are such huge fans of the guy that when you suggest he might be the sixth best player on the team, all of a sudden they make it out to be that you're trying to say he sucks, or that he should get run out of town, or that he should be banned from the game of basketball, or trying to kick his dog.

I like Bohannon. But I think Joe T is a better point guard right now. That's not me hating the guy (unless you're an overdramatic person, of course).
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I definitely agree with you. However, at the same time when we generally play 2 platoons I think it's more important for JT to provide that spark off the bench. I agree that Joe T is a better PG at this moment, but we need that better PG as the floor general for the 2nd unit. We need JBo to continue to stretch defenses out and be an option (not the first or second option) on the floor with our starters. Both are effective starters, but I don't think JBo impacts a game like JT does with the 2nd teamers coming off the bench.
 
One on One JT wins.

Team game of what Iowa has for players I love both, but give it to JBo. Free throw shooting, 3 point shooting, less turnovers vs. more explosiveness, better defense. Spreading the floor out for this team with 3 sharp shooters with Luka down low is a lot of pressure on a defense. With JT and Connor on the floor last year teams sucked it in.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Use both for all of their strengths. Zone defense can help with JBo defense. I think we will see more of that, but our rebounding scares me in the zone.
 
If the argument is does JT have skills that JBO does not, and does he have a bright future as our future PG, I am all for that discussion. He does and he does.

But, some on this board have been lobbying against JBO since he started as our PG his freshmen year. All the kid has done is put in more 3 pointers than any player in Iowa history, make clutch shots to win multiple huge games, and make free throws at the end of games as easy as most of us tie our shoes.

The notion that he should be demoted as a starter after 4 seasons in that role is pretty rich. JT should get good minutes and I like when they play together too. But, this is Jordan's team. The hate needs to end!!!!!
 
NorthKCHawk said:
If the argument is does JT have skills that JBO does not, and does he have a bright future as our future PG, I am all for that discussion. He does and he does.

But, some on this board have been lobbying against JBO since he started as our PG his freshmen year. All the kid has done is put in more 3 pointers than any player in Iowa history, make clutch shots to win multiple huge games, and make free throws at the end of games as easy as most of us tie our shoes.

The notion that he should be demoted as a starter after 4 seasons in that role is pretty rich. JT should get good minutes and I like when they play together too. But, this is Jordan's team. The hate needs to end!!!!!
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I'd venture to say this is Luka's team, but understand where you're coming from.
 
We also have a ball handler that can't shoot 3s very well in CM but guess what? That doesn't matter either. Most teams and players have a weakness there's hardly a perfect player out there (if there is that'd be scary)

Almost any negative Nancy take on this team bagging on the defense I would just say this. If we are winning games I just don't care. Play to our strengths which is scoring. If we lose 108 to 102 then doggone it we deserved to lose.

How many teams are capable of putting up 90-95 plus up in a game? You have to play at a certain pace and efficiency to even do it. We obviously can regardless of if Garza is having his best game or not. That's what makes us a tough team. It's not just that Garza is ridiculous. It's that he can go for 16 and we still put up 93 AND LEAVE PTS ON THE TABLE. We still missed FTs and open shots.

So my point is just this run up the score and see who can keep up with us. Yeah we aren't great at D but we don't have to be. Just a little bit of D and rebounding is all it takes.
 
I think our defense gets lazy when up big or playing a terrible team. But I do think they have the ability to clamp down pretty good when they need to. It's kinda a scary way to play because its tough to turn it off and on, but hopefully this team is a veteran enough group to pull it off.
 
Fryowa said:
If you look at their stats per 40 (which eliminates discrepancies in playing time), JT has by far been the better player this year. There's zero question that per minute they're on the floor Joe T has been more productive by a long ways. He's also disruptive on the defensive side of the ball as well which just adds to the disparity.

Capture.jpg


I know you're a huge JBo fan and if you're just gonna ride or die with your guy I get it 100%. But there's no way to dispute the stats. If you're going to use past performance as a gauge it doesn't work either. We don't win ball games on JBo's clutch shots that happened in previous seasons.

Will it stay this way all year? I have no idea. But when the rubber meets the road, making clutch shots and going bananas from three in games that happened two years ago doesn't earn you hall passes.

At a certain point if Joe T keeps playing better, what is the rationale for him not getting more of Bohannon's minutes? Is it..."because he made a lot of clutch threes a couple years ago?" That'd be pretty ridiculous.

Gonzaga and conference play will tell a lot.
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Lol, previous seasons & a couple years ago? He went off against NC last week. We don’t win that game without Jordan, we sure as hell do without JT
 
Fryowa said:
It's not a JBo hate thread. But there are a lot of posters here with a flair for the dramatic who would like you to think it is. Some people are such huge fans of the guy that when you suggest he might be the sixth best player on the team, all of a sudden they make it out to be that you're trying to say he sucks, or that he should get run out of town, or that he should be banned from the game of basketball, or trying to kick his dog.

I like Bohannon. But I think Joe T is a better point guard right now. That's not me hating the guy (unless you're an overdramatic person, of course).
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And I am a huge Jbo fan, I’m an Iowa Hawkeye fan. It makes so much sense right? You on the other hand have stated more times then I can count that Jordan needs to shoot less. The schools all time 3 point shooter should shoot less. The guys who’s going to be considered the best 3 pt shooter of all time in the B1G, like he’s gonna hold that record..... You want him to shoot less. He’s top 5 in all time assists for the school too, and you want to replace him with a dude who really hasn’t done shit yet. But you’re a big stats guy and they don’t lie and all that stuff so....
 
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I love Joe T too. I want his role to increase, but there’s room and a place for both guys on this team. They provide different things and that’s a good thing. I don’t think Iowa is half as dangerous of a team if you take Jordan out of the equation. Can you say that about Joe at this point? Not yet imo, he’s flashed but hasn’t quite put it all together. I’m glad he’s had the luxury to develop this way. Jordan’s offensive value to me is just more important than his play on D. He’s an assassin. Thankfully, Fran agrees and we can’t argue that he knows more than all of us. I get this is not a shared sentiment by all the really smart basketballers on Hawkeyenation. Just Fran and I. This is my opinion. Just making it known, I’ll remind ya guys don’t worry
 
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Until someone, Fry, can supply me with the number of points that JBO’s defense costs our team, I will just sit back and yawn. And don’t give me the eye test excuse. I have watched a lot of bb and have a really good season ticket seat and a dvr. Evaluate objectively the next few games and report the results. Thanks!
 
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