Knott nearly led the conference in tackles as just a sophomore...so his upside is tremendous. He's going to be playing on Sundays...the kid is 6'3 245 pounds and he's simply incredibly athletic and quick. Say what you will about ISU's front four, and they have been weak, but Knott and Klein are nothing short of exceptional. Morris, as well, seems destined for the NFL but I wouldn't start writing Nielsen's ticket just yet. He may get there...but he's going to have get a lot better than he is yet.
James Morris - Class Act
- Thread starter WinOneThisCentury
- Start date
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Whoa slow down cowboy he is 6'2 and roughly 240 according to a couple different sites, including the Cyclones official site. He averages a 4.6 40. Not bad, specially for an ISU LB, but he isn't the freak you are making him out to be. Morris alone will be 6'2 232 this season and he runs a 4.5 40.
Size and speed isn't everything tho... Just ask Pat Angerer. He is neither big nor incredibly fast, but he is collecting a nice check right now. In fact, Knott kind of reminds me of Angerer. Both seem to have a knack for being in the right place at the right time. I believe Morris has more potential than both of those guys but he has to prove it on the field.
Knott's main obstacle is whether or not his team can have a good season. He has a good point about ISU's front four as well. If those guys arent making many plays it's natural for LB's to get more tackles. He could make 15 tackles a game this season and the D could still be awful. He won't get as much exposure if the L's start stacking up.
Size and speed isn't everything tho... Just ask Pat Angerer. He is neither big nor incredibly fast, but he is collecting a nice check right now. In fact, Knott kind of reminds me of Angerer. Both seem to have a knack for being in the right place at the right time. I believe Morris has more potential than both of those guys but he has to prove it on the field.
Knott's main obstacle is whether or not his team can have a good season. He has a good point about ISU's front four as well. If those guys arent making many plays it's natural for LB's to get more tackles. He could make 15 tackles a game this season and the D could still be awful. He won't get as much exposure if the L's start stacking up.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
Northwestern had a LB by the name of McGarigle who led the conference in tackles. The guy had a great nose for the ball but he wasn't even a top 5 LB in the Big 10, even in his best year.
Knott is definitely better than McGarigle was. I'm well aware of his play last year ... I tracked ISU very closely last year.
However, I have yet to see you provide a tangible piece of evidence establishing him as a "superior" LB.
Nielsen played a "role" LB position on the Iowa D. A particularly "critical" role position considering that the guy is largely responsible for stifling the ability of opposing teams to run the outside. Nielsen was so effective that Michigan, with all of their speed and playmaking ability was unable to effectively get to the edge against him and pull off big-gainers.
Furthermore, in limited action, playing a "role" position ... Nielsen had a such a knack for stuffing the outside run that he managed to get a shocking number of TFLs. I say "shocking" because the LEO LB usually sets the edge and consequently doesn't always get a chance to get in on plays too. However, all the same, Nielsen as able to do just that.
Also, as an Iowa LEO LB, it's also a central responsibility of Nielsen to be able to run with opposing WRs (a job that the LEO LB has to do more so than the other LB spots). And, to Nielsen's credit, he ran really well with opposing WRs. He's not yet at the level of Edds, but he was pretty good. However, surprisingly enough, I frankly believe that he was better than Edds against the run.
So you're saying Nielsen is likely to be a 1st team All Big Ten player? And a higher draft pick than Knott will be in 2013?
I think you're being more of a fan than an analyst if that's your assertion. Just an opinion, of course, and time will certainly settle this discussion...but Knott is simply an amazing player. Considering he doesn't have an awesome D-line disrupting the opposing OL...and thus faces a lot of Lineman chasing him at the second level...his tackle totals are pretty astounding. Of course, there's more to the game than just tackling but that's a great place to start if your a linebacker. Further, he picked off 4 passes and got progressively more effective at filling the passing lanes as the season went by. Like I said, if he's stays healthy this kid is a lock for the NFL....and Klein may find his way there as well. I don't think it matters much if he's 6'2 or 6'3 so I'll gladly concede the inch...but in terms of speed...he's a burner for an LB, whether that translates to a 4.6 or better, only an electronic NFL test will tell. But the kid is a freakish athlete...his standing high jump, and I don't recall the exact number, set a record for ISU players in the winter workouts.
Again...I think Morris likely has similar potential. Just not buying the Nielsen comparisons as much. Nielsen's a very good player and is an excellent coverage linebacker...but he certainly hasn't shown many hints of being "great"...and I've watched him play quite a bit.
I think you're being more of a fan than an analyst if that's your assertion. Just an opinion, of course, and time will certainly settle this discussion...but Knott is simply an amazing player. Considering he doesn't have an awesome D-line disrupting the opposing OL...and thus faces a lot of Lineman chasing him at the second level...his tackle totals are pretty astounding. Of course, there's more to the game than just tackling but that's a great place to start if your a linebacker. Further, he picked off 4 passes and got progressively more effective at filling the passing lanes as the season went by. Like I said, if he's stays healthy this kid is a lock for the NFL....and Klein may find his way there as well. I don't think it matters much if he's 6'2 or 6'3 so I'll gladly concede the inch...but in terms of speed...he's a burner for an LB, whether that translates to a 4.6 or better, only an electronic NFL test will tell. But the kid is a freakish athlete...his standing high jump, and I don't recall the exact number, set a record for ISU players in the winter workouts.
Again...I think Morris likely has similar potential. Just not buying the Nielsen comparisons as much. Nielsen's a very good player and is an excellent coverage linebacker...but he certainly hasn't shown many hints of being "great"...and I've watched him play quite a bit.
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cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Oh for crap sakes does this stuff ever end? No you haven't.....Nielsen played behind a 3 year starter who is now in the NFL. Last year he played 6 games before injury. He would have been at worst 2nd team all league last year, if not for injury.
Last year every Cyclone fan in the western hemisphere blew and blew about their great O-line neutralizing our D-line.......and "who" is being a fan?!?!?!
Here is the thing with the ISU stuff……2 years ago they laughed and made fun of any Iowa fan who “dared” compare Stanzi to Arnuad. They always have better Rbers and year after year Iowa replaces injured Rbers with better Rbers! ISU fans are routinely putting together combined lists of starters to try and prop themselves up and quite frankly who would really know who is better when comparing two teams with completely different histories.
Honestly I had some bozo on cy-fanatic wax poetic last year about how great Sergio Kindle was and Angerer and Edds weren’t near the athlete, low and behold Angerer had a sensational year. I told him Iowa would send 6 plus kids to the NFL again next year and he said no way, yet here we are again….quite frankly when it comes to honest evaluations of talent and NFL potential there are very few Iowa or ISU fans either one who can arbitrarily evaluate them. I watched Nielsen run Noel Devine down from behind in the Army All-American game! A healthy Nielsen (not a given) has an upside through the roof. So please….. Honestly Mesa you are one of the ones who pooh-poohed Stanzi compared to Arnuad as well, so really we should take your evaluations for gospel?!?!?
I have posted all around the web and for the most part I find ISU and Iowa fans equally maddening, to the point I rarely post anywhere anymore. But it is these kinds of things that make me shake my head the most.
Yes Klein and Knott are BOTH studs and yes they’d have a shot to start at Iowa, but let’s stop for a moment and unpack this thought. Iowa has 30 plus NFLers and a routinely terrific D with a lot of Lbers currently on NFL rosters. ISU has about 6 total in the NFL with no real history of dynamic Defenders, so to compare the two seems like an exercise in futility.
Iowa has a history of replacing NFL talent with more NFL talent while ISU most assuredly does NOT. I will say this Morris and Nielsen will both prove to be substantially faster than Klein or Knott either one and Nielsen was having a sensational year last year before injury. So to pooh-pooh him reeks of ISU insecurity at the least. He’ll play in the NFL assuming he comes completely back from injury. Which isn’t guaranteed.
Chad
Last year every Cyclone fan in the western hemisphere blew and blew about their great O-line neutralizing our D-line.......and "who" is being a fan?!?!?!
Here is the thing with the ISU stuff……2 years ago they laughed and made fun of any Iowa fan who “dared” compare Stanzi to Arnuad. They always have better Rbers and year after year Iowa replaces injured Rbers with better Rbers! ISU fans are routinely putting together combined lists of starters to try and prop themselves up and quite frankly who would really know who is better when comparing two teams with completely different histories.
Honestly I had some bozo on cy-fanatic wax poetic last year about how great Sergio Kindle was and Angerer and Edds weren’t near the athlete, low and behold Angerer had a sensational year. I told him Iowa would send 6 plus kids to the NFL again next year and he said no way, yet here we are again….quite frankly when it comes to honest evaluations of talent and NFL potential there are very few Iowa or ISU fans either one who can arbitrarily evaluate them. I watched Nielsen run Noel Devine down from behind in the Army All-American game! A healthy Nielsen (not a given) has an upside through the roof. So please….. Honestly Mesa you are one of the ones who pooh-poohed Stanzi compared to Arnuad as well, so really we should take your evaluations for gospel?!?!?
I have posted all around the web and for the most part I find ISU and Iowa fans equally maddening, to the point I rarely post anywhere anymore. But it is these kinds of things that make me shake my head the most.
Yes Klein and Knott are BOTH studs and yes they’d have a shot to start at Iowa, but let’s stop for a moment and unpack this thought. Iowa has 30 plus NFLers and a routinely terrific D with a lot of Lbers currently on NFL rosters. ISU has about 6 total in the NFL with no real history of dynamic Defenders, so to compare the two seems like an exercise in futility.
Iowa has a history of replacing NFL talent with more NFL talent while ISU most assuredly does NOT. I will say this Morris and Nielsen will both prove to be substantially faster than Klein or Knott either one and Nielsen was having a sensational year last year before injury. So to pooh-pooh him reeks of ISU insecurity at the least. He’ll play in the NFL assuming he comes completely back from injury. Which isn’t guaranteed.
Chad
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tm3308
Well-Known Member
Knott and Klein are both very good players, and Knott in particular would challenge for a starting spot for the Hawks. But his tackling numbers don't make him a great player. When your d-line can't stop anyone at the LOS, your linebackers are going to rack up a lot more tackles.
I'd take Nielsen over Knott, but with that said, I'd love to have Knott start at Will for us.
You're on the right track with much of what you say...though you overstate the talent "reload" aspect. Iowa is not OSU...it sometimes doesn't reload and suffers drop-offs in talent when great players graduate. Ferentz does bring in some decent NFL talent and is great at developing talent...but Iowa is far from the NFL-player-out vs NFL player in capabilities of the BIG schools. They are well ahead of ISU in talent depth...no doubt...but Rhoads is doing a great job of slowly building depth. ISU will not be great this season...but its LB corps WILL be outstanding. Will they be better than Iowa's...only time will tell because the 3rd starter will make all the difference for both teams. But I stand by the assertion that Jake Knott is the best LB in the state of Iowa and will be the highest draftee of the current LB's in this state. If I'm wrong on that...it will be Morris that proves me such, not Nielsen.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Something else of note I forgot to address......Many an ISU fan is STILL convinced somehow they have a conference of superior athletes, yet I know for fact (having followed it and researched it for 5 years) the Big 10 has waaayyy more NFL alumni (with one less team) way more Linebackers and faster, bigger Lbers who can cover in space (which is why they have so many in the NFL).....
Which is why I brought up the Sergio Kindle stuff in the last post. ISU fans grab any conference player they can to try and make a point vs Iowa.
Incidentally Tarp ran a 4.48, 4.55 at his Pro day (yes it was electronic) and the best Lber ISU has had in recent years is Ace Bowen who ran a best Pro day of I believe 4.74 if memory serves. Which is important because even way back then they just knew they were more athletic than Iowa's guys, one of which (Humpal) out performed him in all categories, like shuttle, Pro-agility etc....which are more important than 40's for Lbers!
Chad
Which is why I brought up the Sergio Kindle stuff in the last post. ISU fans grab any conference player they can to try and make a point vs Iowa.
Incidentally Tarp ran a 4.48, 4.55 at his Pro day (yes it was electronic) and the best Lber ISU has had in recent years is Ace Bowen who ran a best Pro day of I believe 4.74 if memory serves. Which is important because even way back then they just knew they were more athletic than Iowa's guys, one of which (Humpal) out performed him in all categories, like shuttle, Pro-agility etc....which are more important than 40's for Lbers!
Chad
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure it was Matt Millen, but I can't remember which game it was.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Mesa, just stop. I know you've seen me post elsewhere and I know you are aware I'm not just throwing dead cats....almost to a man, 90% of ISU fans (even the fair ones) lauded Arnuad over Stanzi. Yes in the last 2 years things changed, but hearken back and you'll remember strong words similar two what you are now saying about Knott over Nielsen. They also waxed poetic about the 2009 O-line controlling our D-line and they would have one of the best in the nation, in 2010! I've seen you on fanatics and I know you read those threads.
The truth is you don't know nor do I. But I do know this....I'm relatively perceptive and critical of myself to the point I take being fair pretty seriously. I have also watched and read and watched and read...if I had 5 cents (that's all) for every time some ISU, or rival fan (even Iowa fans) pooh-poohed our players and their athleticism I'd be rich. All they have done is go to combine after combine and Pro day after Pro day and blew the doors off.
Your comments about Iowa and their reload capabilities sealed it for me...most ISU fans (even many Iowa fans) really don't get how much talent we have rolled through here. We have had some QB probs and WR's but for the most part we are one of the very best at producing NFL talent (31 plus and counting) that would place us about 5 below tOSU (36) and about even with Florida (31 or 32) and ahead of Michigan Oklahoma and PSU.
In fact the last I counted we would have been 6th or 7th in a 35 team Big 10/SEC/Big12 super conference....ISU has....6.
Chad
The truth is you don't know nor do I. But I do know this....I'm relatively perceptive and critical of myself to the point I take being fair pretty seriously. I have also watched and read and watched and read...if I had 5 cents (that's all) for every time some ISU, or rival fan (even Iowa fans) pooh-poohed our players and their athleticism I'd be rich. All they have done is go to combine after combine and Pro day after Pro day and blew the doors off.
Your comments about Iowa and their reload capabilities sealed it for me...most ISU fans (even many Iowa fans) really don't get how much talent we have rolled through here. We have had some QB probs and WR's but for the most part we are one of the very best at producing NFL talent (31 plus and counting) that would place us about 5 below tOSU (36) and about even with Florida (31 or 32) and ahead of Michigan Oklahoma and PSU.
In fact the last I counted we would have been 6th or 7th in a 35 team Big 10/SEC/Big12 super conference....ISU has....6.
Chad
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
Mesa -
I assume that Knott is on the Lott watch list too then, right? Nielsen is ....
As for whether Nielsen will be a 1st team All-Big10 ... I don't know. He'll be able to be competitive for the honors.
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homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
Just thinking about the top LBs in the B10, I'd say that the following have to be near the top:
Demens (Mich)
David (Neb)
Taylor (Wisc)
Nielsen (Iowa)
Demens (Mich)
David (Neb)
Taylor (Wisc)
Nielsen (Iowa)
DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
Well, this thread certainly went full-mentally-handicapped.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I think you're forgetting Borland from Wisky. That is a special player, shame he had to miss last season (or most of it, anyway).
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
Borland has potential ... but the fact that he's coming off of two consecutive injuries and the fact that he's a bit on the "short side," I'm inclined to believe that he won't be as dominant at LB as some of the other LBs across the B10. Michigan State's Norman and Bullough could potential enter the conversation too ... however, it's probably a bit premature to be putting Bullough in the conversation quite yet (just like it's a little early to be mentioning Morris too).
One last point. In no way does my advocacy of Knott imply any demeaning of any Iowa players. I think Nielsen is a VERY good player...and Morris may be an AA one day...but I happen to believe that Knott is an NFL quality player...likely to go in the 1st three rounds in 2013 if he stays healthy and keeps getting better at a normal progression. I've also been pretty quick to acknowledge the very clear talent supremacy of Iowa over the past 30 years in football...hands down, Iowa's had more NFL caliber talent and solid depth. But none of that says anything about Knott...or about Nielsen and Morris for that matter.
We'll just have to watch the season play out and be glad we get to watch such great players from both teams.
We'll just have to watch the season play out and be glad we get to watch such great players from both teams.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
You are correct on waiting to see how the season pans out. It's got to be hard to defend your defense and point out their strengths, but I'm sure there were some, Knott being one. He certainly made some plays against Iowa, usually about 7-8 yards downfield. Honestly, it's really hard to evaluate talent when you are being abused the way Iowa State was last year...and I mean that with all due respect. You weren't in the ball game at all.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Yeah Mesa I didn't mean to imply you were being a jerk. For that matter I honestly don’t ever remember taking issue with you anywhere else where I have posted. I also don’t think you are all wet. Knott and Klein are both studs and honestly if anything I don’t think you are giving enuff credit to Klein.
I follow ISU a little like you follow Iowa and up until about Mid-season last year I’d have said Klein was the overall better Lber. He played more his Frosh year and looked stronger and was having a better season last year up until Knott just blew up. I will say Knott is probably the better athlete, but the thing about both of those guys that KF would love is….they are just flat football players, period. And honestly Klein’s emergence is even more unbelievable than Knotts. The fact that an “Iowa†kid got snubbed and played huge has been done ad nauseam, but Klein got missed by both Wisco and Iowa, teams who are famous for taking underappreciated kids and grooming them?!?!
Now where I have taken exception is you’re seemed assurance that there is no way Nielsen could ever be better than Knott and that is very bold and short sighted in my opinion. Maybe you don’t realize it but Nielsen is a sensational athlete and if I’m not mistaken is purportedly faster than Edds not better per se, but faster which is astounding considering Edds ran a 4.63 @ 6’ 4†245…that’s flying for a big cat like him.
At this stage I’m not even ready to say Morris is better than a healthy Nielsen and I think Morris’ upside is through the roof and we have a lot of NFL Lbers to compare to.
As for Knott I do believe he is an NFL, Lber but I’d be shocked if he ran better than a low 4.7 forty right now and I would stop just short of guaranteeing Morris and Nielsen are both faster than that. Doesn’t make them better, but they are faster. But as you said time will tell.
Chad
I think it was the Michigan State game when we were stuffing their run game like a mf.
