Is there another Weisman sitting down right now?

[SpiderRico]

Nope. I am talking about Brad Banks, and everyone's thoughts that he should have played all of 2001. No one who actually was on that team, that I have spoken with, supports that notion.

No offense Jon, but what you're saying is no different than the people that disparage Tom Davis saying, "Well, anyone could have coached that 1987 team to that result." Really? Just like Mr. Davis, someone had to QB that team, lead it, make the plays, etc. And you could very well be right that Iowa may have only run 12-15 plays (or variants of those plays)in 2002, but you know what.....those 12-15 plays got it a B1G conference title, a BCS bowl and a Heisman runner-up. So if he only knew 10 plays the year before, shouldn't it stand to reason that he would have done pretty well? Same offensive line in 2001, possibly a better running back (Betts was a beast), same TE, etc.

 

[pmchawk]

As far as Jake everybody was excited about him nobody preseason was saying Stanzi should start. He played poorly and by game 4 I believe Stanzi was starting what did he do so wrong their?

your joking right? Nobody was excited for JC in 2008, His 1st year as a starter was horrible. Everyone was excited when he was the back-up to Tate in 2006 and was excited going into 2007. Stanzi wasn't given the reigns until game 5 in 2008. After a poor choice to let Jake try to win in the 2nd half against @Pitt. Pitt fans didn't understand why Stanzi didn't play in the 2nd half when they felt it was clear he was better then JC.

 

[BSpringsteen]

Nope. I am talking about Brad Banks, and everyone's thoughts that he should have played all of 2001. No one who actually was on that team, that I have spoken with, supports that notion.

So JD - you put yourself in a corner here...

The limitation with Brad Banks was that he only knew about 10 plays, despite the fact that it was apparent to everyone watching that he was able to do things that McCann wasn't. And then the next year, with 12-15 plays in his repotoirs he finishes a runner up to the Heisman Trophy.

Am I following your logic correctly here?

 

[pmchawk]

You are out over your ski tips here. He had the best offensive line in Iowa football history and the best in the nation that year. He had the best tight end in the nation that year and best in school history. Teams had to throw everything at stopping Iowa's running game, which made the play action game unstoppable, like what we saw from Wisconsin last year. Banks threw to more wide open receivers than any Iowa QB has since the forward pass became vogue.

Iowa probably ran the same core 12-15 plays each game in 2002, because no one could stop them. You think Iowa all of the sudden got crazy in 2002 and Banks had 80 plays in his repertoire? No.

I think the play book shrank after 2002. We haven't seen a draw or a QB draw very much, if at all, since then. however, we haven't had a QB that could potentially take it to the house running since then either.

 

[hawkfan33]

So JD - you put yourself in a corner here...

The limitation with Brad Banks was that he only knew about 10 plays, despite the fact that it was apparent to everyone watching that he was able to do things that McCann wasn't. And then the next year, with 12-15 plays in his repotoirs he finishes a runner up to the Heisman Trophy.

Am I following your logic correctly here?

Dude, you don't understand how magical the other 2-5 plays they added were. They were just too powerful for Banks to handle in year one. With the addition of those extra terrific plays, Iowa was unstoppable.

 

[WhitUp]

Yes, but nobody was saying beginning of the season stanzi should start. I remember in 2007 nobody even knew who the backup was. Not until after the season started 2008 and he played poorly were people saying pull him. And he did by game 5 or whatever it was, you guys act like he humped him the whole season.

 

[Sums]

My comeback to that usually is....."Then he made the greatest single season turnaround in college football history. Going from a backup only knowing 10 plays to leading the Hawks to an undefeated Big 10 season, a berth in the Orange Bowl and a runner-up finish in the Heisman."

I'm sorry, but you don't just get that in one off-season.

Like Ricky Stanzi who his junior year was rick 6 known for pick sixes and then turned it around in 1 year to be a great Iowa QB that was drafted. Thats a pretty big turn around in one years time.

 

[NickM]

You are out over your ski tips here. He had the best offensive line in Iowa football history and the best in the nation that year. He had the best tight end in the nation that year and best in school history. Teams had to throw everything at stopping Iowa's running game, which made the play action game unstoppable, like what we saw from Wisconsin last year. Banks threw to more wide open receivers than any Iowa QB has since the forward pass became vogue.

Iowa probably ran the same core 12-15 plays each game in 2002, because no one could stop them. You think Iowa all of the sudden got crazy in 2002 and Banks had 80 plays in his repertoire? No.

The 2001 team had the same potential on offense - all of the stud lineman were very, very good lineman in 2001. We had an NFL back in Betts and an NFL fullback in Allen. We even had a receiver in Hill that played in the NFL. Certainly Banks could have run 12-15 plays in 2001 and had similar success against a softer schedule. All I know is McCann stunk against Michigan, and Banks was the only reason we were in the game. The 2001 team should have won at least 2 more games, maybe 3 but for bad QB play: Michigan, MSU (McCann threw 4 picks against an MSU secondary that literally included two players that were playing receiver the week before - we only lost by 3 thanks to some good special teams), and ISU at the end of the year. The O-line that was so good in 2002 was pretty freaking good in 2001. I also recall Banks being the only reason Wisconsin didn't blow us out by 30. I also have zero recollection of Iowa all of a sudden going run and shoot, massive playbook when McCann was at the helm in 2001.

I have zero, ZERO doubt KF plays the players he thinks gives the team the best chance to win. But coaches are all different in terms of how they make that determination. It seems to me (and the Banks/McCann debate appears to be an example), if KF has 2 players, one really athletic, but only knows where to go 6-7 times out of 10, and a marginal/lessor athlete that knows were to be 10 times out of 10, he goes with the lessor athlete b/c KF believes (and many coaches do) that knowing where to be is as important as being able to make the play once you are there. BUT there are absolutely just as many coaches that feel you need to get your athletes on the field and coach them up from there - you can live with the mistakes b/c they will make up for it with big plays.

I am not saying one view is better than the other. I don't know if we have any talent on the bench b/c as has been pointed out, we don't get to go to practice. But after watching McCann trot back out on the field in the Michigan game and watching Christensen play the entire second half against Pitt, it's more than fair game to discuss and even question the criterion KF follows for allocating playing time. That's not the same as saying we don't think KF is playing the players he believes gives the team the best chance to win.There are more examples. Bradley Fletcher - an NFL defensive back, sat behind Adam Shada. Chris Oliver played ahead of CJ Jones. Someone with a pulse sat behind Herb Grigsby.

 

[SpiderRico]

Yes, but nobody was saying beginning of the season stanzi should start. I remember in 2007 nobody even knew who the backup was. Not until after the season started 2008 and he played poorly were people saying pull him. And he did by game 5 or whatever it was, you guys act like he humped him the whole season.

I think you have selective memory here. The cry of "anyone but Jake" was so loud it drowned out everything else that offseason. I was at the second game against FIU that year and EVERYONE in the stands cheered when Stanzi went in and did well and you could hear a single groan from all 70,000 when Jake was in.

EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE wanted Jake replaced after 2007. Hell, pretty much everyone wanted him replaced halfway through 2007.

 

[NickM]

You do realize he transferred in and showed up on campus a month before the season and you expect him to learn the whole offence top to bottom in like 14 practices. Very do able in 10 months but not in limited practice time. Didn't look like superman in the Wisconsin game.

Banks played in the spring game. He was also the only reason Wisconsin didn't blow us out of the water in 2001.

 

[Sums]

The thing I don't get is that the coaching staff saw something in Weisman in PRACTICE to give him the starting nod over an incumbent and upper classman. Then before the UNI game he gave Weisman reps at RB. but everyone thinks KF doesn't know talent and is just letting it sit. I seem to remember DJK was a pain in KF's *** but still played a ton and as a freshman.

 

[urohawk]

Jon if your contention is that there really are no other better options on the bench (which I agree with) than I think it is hard to argue that the program hasn't spun out of control. Because next year is going to be much worse than this year.

We are not a young team in years. We will lose clearly the best Qb on our roster, the best WR, the best pass rusher, center and our best cover corner. In short, if the program was the Titanic it has only just started to take on water now. Next year at this time thousands of people will be jumping into freezing cold water.

 

[DaBears]

Remember when JVB WAS the backup? And everyone wanted him to start....?!

 

[NickM]

Because I find the Banks/McCann debate to be so ridiculous:

Iowa vs. Wisconsin recap from 2001: Banks led 4 scoring drives, and didn't really play a meaningful snap the rest of the season: Defeated, depleted: Uncertainty at QB again, defensive unit hurting | TheGazette

Iowa v. MSU: McCann throws 4 pics against depleted MSU secondary: Still looking for clues: Flubs force Hawks into a long day of catch-up | TheGazette

Iowa vs. ISU: Iowa scores a whopping 14 points and had one of the worst looking 2 minute drives in the history of football such that Podalak could not contain his anger and had to leave the booth. Banks doesn't get a snap:
4 straight for State: Emotions flow after Runk seals the deal | TheGazette

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I think the play book shrank after 2002. We haven't seen a draw or a QB draw very much, if at all, since then. however, we haven't had a QB that could potentially take it to the house running since then either.

Yep, your second sentence was exactly what I was thinking as i was reading your first sentence about the QB draw. It would be really nice if Iowa had a dual-threat QB, that could run AND throw. And I don't mean simply mobile, like Tate, Stanzi and JVB - because our OC's never really have called plays for those players where it's a designed QB run. Our play selection is either hand off, or 3-5 step drop, and throw. About the only time our QB's ever seem to run is maybe on a busted play, or if nobody is open down field, and our QB has alot of space to run and get what he can as a last resort.

I realize we've recruited a couple of QB's that are supposed to be great runners and they've never played, but this is where I feel our QB recruiting and/or QB development is seriously falling short, because those guys apparently either aren't talented enough, or aren't being coached up enough, to see the field.

And if our backup QB's are nowhere near ready to take the field, then that doesn't bode well for next year. Of course they can improve in a year, but they'd better, otherwise it's going to be a long season, both for the new QB and for the fans.

 

[NickM]

For good measure - here is the recap of Iowa vs. Mich from 2001. Can someone explain why Chris Oliver was in on the last play ahead of both Hill and CJ Jones? If I recall correctly Iowa was in a one receiver set.

Big chance slips by: Michigan claws from hole, Iowa QBs struggle | TheGazette

 

[ForrestEvy]

I agree with Jon. The coaches know who the top players are and will play the guys who give the Hawks the best chance to win. A win on Sat. vs. the Gophers will get us going in the right direction again. Now is not the time to panic and make changes for the sake of change.

 

[whammer33024]

i seem to recall people begging for vandenberg to come in for stanzi. JVB played so well against tOSU, right?

 

[hawkfan33]

I agree with Jon. The coaches know who the top players are and will play the guys who give the Hawks the best chance to win. A win on Sat. vs. the Gophers will get us going in the right direction again. Now is not the time to panic and make changes for the sake of change.

This is also a problem. If we don't have the talent to beat Central Michigan, Kurt has some real problems on his hands.

 

[smbhawk1]

If it were up to Ferentz, Jake C would have started the entire 2008 season.