Is Iowa's Defense Broken?
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
I think the defense works exactly the way it is designed by our coaches to work. Two years ago people complained more because we lost close games (people complained about offense and defense). Lat year people didn't complain as much and our defense worked the same way but we won those games. This year the defense is working the same and we have lost some close games (not all on the defense). It works the way it is designed to give up yardage. You just can't expect that you can automatically give up 40 yards on a drive then turn it on and stop everyone. It will eventually catch up to you and you won't be able to stop someone when you need to.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
It's not designed to 'give up yardage'
Every defense has an area that you have a higher chance to exploit than other routes. For Iowa's defense, there are soft spots in the zone. One of the reasons why Iowa has done so well is they play their scheme very well, with stellar execution...and most teams do not have poised, patient and accurate QB's
In Iowa's two losses this year, they have faced poised and accurage QB's. That being said, Iowa did not execute well on special teams in either of those games, and it killed them. IMO< Wisky beat Iowa more than AZ beat Iowa. Still, had Iowa not had so many self inflicted wounds, I think the outcome would be different.
The bad news here is that Kirk Cousins comes to town this weekend, and he is a veteran QB, with a great running game, which makes an average QB above average and can make an above average QB really dangerous. I think the latter is the case for Cousins, as I think he is above average.
Every defense has an area that you have a higher chance to exploit than other routes. For Iowa's defense, there are soft spots in the zone. One of the reasons why Iowa has done so well is they play their scheme very well, with stellar execution...and most teams do not have poised, patient and accurate QB's
In Iowa's two losses this year, they have faced poised and accurage QB's. That being said, Iowa did not execute well on special teams in either of those games, and it killed them. IMO< Wisky beat Iowa more than AZ beat Iowa. Still, had Iowa not had so many self inflicted wounds, I think the outcome would be different.
The bad news here is that Kirk Cousins comes to town this weekend, and he is a veteran QB, with a great running game, which makes an average QB above average and can make an above average QB really dangerous. I think the latter is the case for Cousins, as I think he is above average.
Poor choice of words on my part. I know it is not "designed" to give up yardage but our scheme does give up yardage because of those spots in the zone, so I guess we didn't design it that way but the design allows for it.
PeoriaHWKI
Well-Known Member
I agree with your post Jon. Special Teams needs a quick fix and is the main culprit behind the 2 losses. 5 plays were huge in the WI game.
hawkfan340
Well-Known Member
I don't agree with the part about the lack of pass rush. The pass rush has been the same, if not better than last year. The difference is the QBs are getting the ball out much quicker than last year. Part of this is that we're playing QB's that are more experienced than last year, but a lot of it is that our coverage isn't as good. I think that comes down the a talent thing more than a scheme thing. We don't have Spievey, Angerer, or Edds who were all outstanding in coverage. And we haven't had Tarp for much of the season (the last two games in particular).
I'd be interested to know if anyone keeps an average dropback time stat. My guess is that it would be quite a bit lower than last year.
I'd be interested to know if anyone keeps an average dropback time stat. My guess is that it would be quite a bit lower than last year.
I think a good way to get a defense out of a funk is to turn it loose a little - try to force a mistake instead of hoping the opponent makes one. A timely sack here or forced fumble there might help get the swagger back. It's like Hayden says about offense. If it's in a funk, go deep a couple of times to light a spark. I was disappointed at the lack of adjustments and lack of aggression on defense on Saturday, particularly on the key
3rd and 4th downs against a team with no vertical passing game. We continued to let Wisconsin isolate our backup linebackers on Ball and Gilreath instead of bringing a safety up and leaving a linebacker in the middle. Two deep safeties against 5 wide leave some huge gaps in the short passing game.
3rd and 4th downs against a team with no vertical passing game. We continued to let Wisconsin isolate our backup linebackers on Ball and Gilreath instead of bringing a safety up and leaving a linebacker in the middle. Two deep safeties against 5 wide leave some huge gaps in the short passing game.
My take:
1) We really miss Amari Spivey's ability to play on an island. Last season freed up Tyler Sash and Brett Greenwood to play cover two over 2/3 of the field, rather than having to play a true cover two with a man over both Prater and Hyde like we are seeing this season.
2) Jim Tressel provided the model to beat the Hawks in 2006 when they moved Ted Ginn and Anthony Gonzalez into the slot in 3, 4, and 5 wide sets. This creates a mismatch against our linebackers, and even Chad Greenway has a hard time covering NFL talent in the slot. The Hawks have yet to adapt to this approach, its what WI went to after the fake punt. No one can expect Tyler Neilsen to keep up with Montee Ball in pass coverage. I think we see lots of this this weekend.
Most coaches either don't have the talent to spread us out, or the discipline to take 4 yards per completion in the pass game. This has been to our benefit for the past decade, but given tOSU's model, NW, AZ, and now WI using it when they need plays most, it is something we will need to address in the off season.
Getting more pressure from the front 4 would help, but in reality, if opposing OC's are disciplined, they don't have to pass protect long to run 4 yard routes (especially against 8 yard cushions).
1) We really miss Amari Spivey's ability to play on an island. Last season freed up Tyler Sash and Brett Greenwood to play cover two over 2/3 of the field, rather than having to play a true cover two with a man over both Prater and Hyde like we are seeing this season.
2) Jim Tressel provided the model to beat the Hawks in 2006 when they moved Ted Ginn and Anthony Gonzalez into the slot in 3, 4, and 5 wide sets. This creates a mismatch against our linebackers, and even Chad Greenway has a hard time covering NFL talent in the slot. The Hawks have yet to adapt to this approach, its what WI went to after the fake punt. No one can expect Tyler Neilsen to keep up with Montee Ball in pass coverage. I think we see lots of this this weekend.
Most coaches either don't have the talent to spread us out, or the discipline to take 4 yards per completion in the pass game. This has been to our benefit for the past decade, but given tOSU's model, NW, AZ, and now WI using it when they need plays most, it is something we will need to address in the off season.
Getting more pressure from the front 4 would help, but in reality, if opposing OC's are disciplined, they don't have to pass protect long to run 4 yard routes (especially against 8 yard cushions).
spudhawk
Well-Known Member
3 of the teams that we have played this season are offenses that are designed to get rid of the ball quickly- Arizona, ISU, and Michigan. When they wanted to go deep they kept at least 6 and sometimes 7 in to protect against 4 rushers. Sometimes we still struggled to cover against 3 receivers. That is not on the pass rush. However Penn State and Wisconsin were able to make adjustments in game to block Clayborn. It is my opinion that Klug, Daniels, Ballard and Binns are not taking advantage on 1 on 1 match ups consistently enough. In the first half they were against Penn State but PSU had time to throw in the second half they just didn't execute throws. Wisconsin had a clever gameplan and time to throw. Tolzien and Cousins are similar in accuracy and decision making except I would give Cousins the nod in physical ability and pure passing ability. MSU does not have the pass blocking line that Wisconsin has. Iowa's d-line must provide more pressure this week. Cousins will throw riskier passes.
HaydensDad
Well-Known Member
Seems like linebacker injuries are the biggest problem, at least the last 3 games.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
Defense is not "broken".
First and foremost, it has been put in positions by the special teams, particularly kickoff coverage, that prevent it from having a chance to "bend" and snap back. This occurred in both losses, unfortunately, at the most inopportune times.
The overall exception to this has been Wisky, which put together 4 drives of 10+ plays. Their OL is equally great to the Hawk's DL and was able to bully the front 4. There is not another team on the schedule that will be able to push Iowa's DL around like Wisky.
Even then, Wisky was still held to only 3.7 yards / rush, well below the 5.68 yards / rush that Clay, White and Ball have averaged on the season, combined. That's pretty significant because I completely expect much more QB pressure from the DL going forward.
Iowa's defense is definitely weak at LB, which compounds the fact that this is the inherently vulnerable area of the defensive scheme. It didn't help that Tolzein was superb in exploiting it. Then again, see his OL giving him all the time he needed to disect, check down and attack.
Cousins has more talent than Tolzein. His experience, along with knowing that MSU is not afraid to use everything it has to win -- not just a flash-in-the-pan fake punt in what is most likely it's last drive but at any time during the game -- is why I'm concerned Iowa will once again lose a close game (most likely, some sort of trick special teams play).
The only thread of hope I have is that the DL should get more of a rush, hopefully throwing Cousins off his game, and that the defense "breaks" out of the plain vanilla autopilot it has been on during Norm's absence. Nothing crazy but simply some well-timed aggression.
First and foremost, it has been put in positions by the special teams, particularly kickoff coverage, that prevent it from having a chance to "bend" and snap back. This occurred in both losses, unfortunately, at the most inopportune times.
The overall exception to this has been Wisky, which put together 4 drives of 10+ plays. Their OL is equally great to the Hawk's DL and was able to bully the front 4. There is not another team on the schedule that will be able to push Iowa's DL around like Wisky.
Even then, Wisky was still held to only 3.7 yards / rush, well below the 5.68 yards / rush that Clay, White and Ball have averaged on the season, combined. That's pretty significant because I completely expect much more QB pressure from the DL going forward.
Iowa's defense is definitely weak at LB, which compounds the fact that this is the inherently vulnerable area of the defensive scheme. It didn't help that Tolzein was superb in exploiting it. Then again, see his OL giving him all the time he needed to disect, check down and attack.
Cousins has more talent than Tolzein. His experience, along with knowing that MSU is not afraid to use everything it has to win -- not just a flash-in-the-pan fake punt in what is most likely it's last drive but at any time during the game -- is why I'm concerned Iowa will once again lose a close game (most likely, some sort of trick special teams play).
The only thread of hope I have is that the DL should get more of a rush, hopefully throwing Cousins off his game, and that the defense "breaks" out of the plain vanilla autopilot it has been on during Norm's absence. Nothing crazy but simply some well-timed aggression.
trj
Well-Known Member
My two cents:
Hyde being inconsistent.......Teams going after him, I knew that was going to happen. I didn't expect breakdown in other areas I thought they would be able to "protect" Hyde. Little disappointed in Prater I assumed he would play at a all 1st team Big Ten level and right now he isn't playing at even a honorable mention level.
Troy Johnson is probably better suited for the WIL linebacker spot than the Mike. Not having Davis and Tarp really hurts, Tarp's athleticism and Davis is really good against the run are more viable options instead of Johnson. I need to go back and see how Edds played in 2007......can't remember if he struggled or not, I want to say he did. The reason why I bring that up is I think Neilsen will be an all big ten performer next year. From what I read he is a half a step faster than Edds and the overall athleticism is about the same he is just missing experience, very similiar to Hyde.
D-line hasn't been as dominant as I thought they were going to be. With that said I not going call out anyone particuliar, I think everyone is working hard I can't put my finger on why this d-line isn't more dominant.
Excluding the Michigan game I've got no issues with Sash. He has been good in run support all year. Been late getting over on pass coverage on a couple of occasions, but nothing I'd could bash him for. Is he playing like a 2nd team all-american? No. However, the drop off isn't significant enough to point fingers.
Greenwood is simply being Greenwood.....Doing what he always does.
Hyde being inconsistent.......Teams going after him, I knew that was going to happen. I didn't expect breakdown in other areas I thought they would be able to "protect" Hyde. Little disappointed in Prater I assumed he would play at a all 1st team Big Ten level and right now he isn't playing at even a honorable mention level.
Troy Johnson is probably better suited for the WIL linebacker spot than the Mike. Not having Davis and Tarp really hurts, Tarp's athleticism and Davis is really good against the run are more viable options instead of Johnson. I need to go back and see how Edds played in 2007......can't remember if he struggled or not, I want to say he did. The reason why I bring that up is I think Neilsen will be an all big ten performer next year. From what I read he is a half a step faster than Edds and the overall athleticism is about the same he is just missing experience, very similiar to Hyde.
D-line hasn't been as dominant as I thought they were going to be. With that said I not going call out anyone particuliar, I think everyone is working hard I can't put my finger on why this d-line isn't more dominant.
Excluding the Michigan game I've got no issues with Sash. He has been good in run support all year. Been late getting over on pass coverage on a couple of occasions, but nothing I'd could bash him for. Is he playing like a 2nd team all-american? No. However, the drop off isn't significant enough to point fingers.
Greenwood is simply being Greenwood.....Doing what he always does.
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
ESox is 100% correct.
The blueprint has always been there for how to beat Iowa, its just that too few teams have had the experience or the discipline to do so.
If you have a team that is willing to play 4 WR sets and take 5 yard completions everytime, you are going to break Iowa's defense.
It's just that very few teams have taken that opportunity.
The blueprint has always been there for how to beat Iowa, its just that too few teams have had the experience or the discipline to do so.
If you have a team that is willing to play 4 WR sets and take 5 yard completions everytime, you are going to break Iowa's defense.
It's just that very few teams have taken that opportunity.
ColumbusHawk
Well-Known Member
Jon, what concerns me is the apparent lack of adjustments on defense. I don't remember an Iowa defense looking as bad as it did on Wisconsin's first two possessions last year. They just mauled Iowa. However, after that Iowa completely shut down Wisconsin.
Likewise, Iowa's defense looked horrendous on Penn State's first two possesions last year. In 2008, except for Penn State's first possession, Iowa got the snout kicked out of them in the first half. However, the defense stepped up in those games to dominate the opposition.
Iowa starting slowly on defense is not unusual. What is unusual is that Iowa's defense has not stepped up its play after the first few series.
Likewise, Iowa's defense looked horrendous on Penn State's first two possesions last year. In 2008, except for Penn State's first possession, Iowa got the snout kicked out of them in the first half. However, the defense stepped up in those games to dominate the opposition.
Iowa starting slowly on defense is not unusual. What is unusual is that Iowa's defense has not stepped up its play after the first few series.
Saginawbay
Well-Known Member
Defense has just not made the big plays when we need it. We have needed them on two drives this season and both times defense has allowed a long sustained drive that cost us a win, and that is what is making everyone feel like the defense is has failed.
busabus114
Well-Known Member
With the current LB situation the defense is broken against a quality QB. Personally I took for granted how well Edds and Angerer could cover the pass last year going into this season. It can still be a good unit if the d-line gets it together but if we face a decent QB it wont be a dominant defense imo
busabus114
Well-Known Member
It doesnt just feel like they failed...they actually have failed
Scoring 30 at home and losing when the D gives up all 31 is nearly epic fail
trj
Well-Known Member
yeah, maybe...seems like their other issues going on. Winning has a tendency to mask other things. Even if the hawks beat zona/wisky at some point those other issues would have been exploited.
