Is Ferentz hurting his player's draft prospects?

SpiderRico said:
I can name a lot of players that grew into better players than when they came out of Iowa:

1. Marshal Yanda
2. Bob Sanders
3. Aaron Kampman
4. Eric Stienbach
5. Jonathan Babineaux
6. Chad Greenway

Those are just off the top of my head.

I think it's a real disservice to the players when comments like this are made. Everyone in any walk of life has room for improvement and to suggest that these players don't improve says to me that this guy doesn't think that they put in the effort to get better. That's BS and is just another in a long line of BS that sports guys put out there that have no clue what they are talking about.
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It's not BS. Believe it or not, guys do have ceilings, in every walk of life.

I ran the distance races in track my senior year of high school, and because of that, I got much faster in my sprints. That brought my 40 down to around 4.8/4.9 and gave me the ability to steal bases for the first time. But no matter how hard I worked at it, I'd never be able to run a 4.4 without juicing. Because it's simply not in my genetics to do so. I'd likely top out at 4.6 if I dedicated myself to it like it was a full-time job.

But college football is pretty damn close to a full-time job. And in the draft, you have three basic types of prospects:

1. The guy whose physical potential is tapped out, but whose physical skills are just off-the-charts good.

2. The guy whose physical potential is tapped out, but have issues in their technique that can improve their on-the-field potential.

3. The guy whose physical potential is maxed out, it's not elite, and their technique is excellent (this fits the description for a lot of Iowa players).

All three of these guys can have a lot of success in the NFL. But Guy #3 is likely to be drafted later than guys 1 and 2, because they have what appears to be less potential. But they can still have success.

David Eckstein is a perfect MLB example of this. He didn't possess a strong arm, and there wasn't a way to suddenly give him Tulo's arm. So he worked around it by making sure his footwork and hands were perfect. He got rid of the ball faster than just about any shortstop, so the difference in arm strength was less noticeable. He didn't have great athleticism, but he hustled more than the guys who did, which narrowed the gap in his defensive range.

Iowa produces more David Ecksteins than A-Rods. That's not exactly something to turn up your nose at.
 
I think it's pointing to the fact that they are technically and fundamentally sound where as some other guys, like the Memphis DT are very raw but have huge upside. Mostly he is pointing out that though they aren't 5* guys they are sound and though they have upside it's not untapped raw athletic ability that they can mold as much in the NFL.
 
DwayneTwill said:
I guaran-damn-tee that every NFL coach and GM would rather draft a player who's ready to go than one that needs to be 'coached up'. It's a stupid notion that Iowa players won't improve, too.
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If players are of similar physical talent, obviously they would prefer the guy who's more NFL-ready. But if a guy has Blackmon's physical gifts and needs coached up on his technique, he's more likely to get drafted than a guy who's already coached up and doesn't have that elite athleticism.

That doesn't mean the more gifted guy will have more success, or that the NFL team isn't making a mistake. But that's how the draft usually works.
 
tm3308 said:
If players are of similar physical talent, obviously they would prefer the guy who's more NFL-ready. But if a guy has Blackmon's physical gifts and needs coached up on his technique, he's more likely to get drafted than a guy who's already coached up and doesn't have that elite athleticism.

That doesn't mean the more gifted guy will have more success, or that the NFL team isn't making a mistake. But that's how the draft usually works.
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Great comparison here with McNutt and Blackmon. If you watch both, Blackmon is an athletic freak, but his routes are not good, just run up the field, and he couldn't block a wet paper bag, where McNutt is sound in all aspects and a good athlete, but not as athletic as Blackmon or Wright from Baylor.
 
tm3308 said:
It's not BS. Believe it or not, guys do have ceilings, in every walk of life.

I ran the distance races in track my senior year of high school, and because of that, I got much faster in my sprints. That brought my 40 down to around 4.8/4.9 and gave me the ability to steal bases for the first time. But no matter how hard I worked at it, I'd never be able to run a 4.4 without juicing. Because it's simply not in my genetics to do so. I'd likely top out at 4.6 if I dedicated myself to it like it was a full-time job.

But college football is pretty damn close to a full-time job. And in the draft, you have three basic types of prospects:

1. The guy whose physical potential is tapped out, but whose physical skills are just off-the-charts good.

2. The guy whose physical potential is tapped out, but have issues in their technique that can improve their on-the-field potential.

3. The guy whose physical potential is maxed out, it's not elite, and their technique is excellent (this fits the description for a lot of Iowa players).

All three of these guys can have a lot of success in the NFL. But Guy #3 is likely to be drafted later than guys 1 and 2, because they have what appears to be less potential. But they can still have success.

David Eckstein is a perfect MLB example of this. He didn't possess a strong arm, and there wasn't a way to suddenly give him Tulo's arm. So he worked around it by making sure his footwork and hands were perfect. He got rid of the ball faster than just about any shortstop, so the difference in arm strength was less noticeable. He didn't have great athleticism, but he hustled more than the guys who did, which narrowed the gap in his defensive range.

Iowa produces more David Ecksteins than A-Rods. That's not exactly something to turn up your nose at.
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That's some solid speed right there. Not elite, mind you, but solid.
 
Think the argument is flawed, but could just be the Gallery effect - who only ended up being a 10 year starter.
 
1hawkeye1 said:
Heard an interesting point on EPSN radio this AM. The point being, Ferentz does such a good job coaching up his players, that they have hit their ceiling in college already. So what you see with Hawkeye players is what you get. They will not continue to improve in the NFL.

Are you buying this? Can you name a former Hawkeye who played for Ferentz then went on to the NFL and played at an even higher level than they did in college?
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No, this is a ******* stupid arguement and makes no sense what-so-ever.

They're coached too well..........really?
 
tm3308 said:
If players are of similar physical talent, obviously they would prefer the guy who's more NFL-ready. But if a guy has Blackmon's physical gifts and needs coached up on his technique, he's more likely to get drafted than a guy who's already coached up and doesn't have that elite athleticism.

That doesn't mean the more gifted guy will have more success, or that the NFL team isn't making a mistake. But that's how the draft usually works.
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But this doesn't relate to the original premise of Ferentz "hurting" player's draft stock by getting them closer to their ceiling than most college coaches. Your argument is related to physical talent.
 
ICHawk24 said:
But this doesn't relate to the original premise of Ferentz "hurting" player's draft stock by getting them closer to their ceiling than most college coaches. Your argument is related to physical talent.
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I don't believe Ferentz is hurting their stock. As Mike said, it's the physical talent of the individuals that holds them back, not the coaching. Ferentz maximizes their stock. Otherwise, they'd be less-than-elite athletes with poor technique. In other words, undraftable.
 
latrans said:
No, this is a ******* stupid arguement and makes no sense what-so-ever.

They're coached too well..........really?
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I kinda agree on this, it would be interesting to get a NFL coaches honest assesment of this situation. I've always wondered how much actual time NFL positional coaches "coach up" their players, there just never seems to be a lot of it happening, maybe I'm just blind? To me it would be more beneficial to have someone already technically sound versus just athletic and throwing them in a position and hoping for the best.
 
1hawkeye1 said:
Heard an interesting point on EPSN radio this AM. The point being, Ferentz does such a good job coaching up his players, that they have hit their ceiling in college already. So what you see with Hawkeye players is what you get. They will not continue to improve in the NFL.

Are you buying this? Can you name a former Hawkeye who played for Ferentz then went on to the NFL and played at an even higher level than they did in college?
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but that's an incredibly stupid statement, not you, the people that mentioned it on the radio.
 
tm3308 said:
I don't believe Ferentz is hurting their stock. As Mike said, it's the physical talent of the individuals that holds them back, not the coaching. Ferentz maximizes their stock. Otherwise, they'd be less-than-elite athletes with poor technique. In other words, undraftable.
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Ok, I'm with ya.
 
i would think this to be a good thing as the players coming from iowa might not have as high of a ceiling as others but they dont have as low of a floor either.

i would say the one that has really out performed himself is mattison (cant remember if he was drafted or not) but i want to know how playing de in college tapped him out as a guard in the pros. these people that dont understand the basics are sad. iowa players get drafted because they wpnt have to be taught the basics and can jump in and work on the intricacies that make pro football so difficult.
 
I think this is a ridiculous premise. Players bodies continue to develop and don't peak until their late 20's and early 30's regardless of where they are at draft time. The mental aspect of the game can improve greatly when you no longer have the requirements of school...and experience is huge as you move into professional football. How you say Iowa players have less upside.
 
It's asinine to say he's hurting their chances when some of those players wouldn't have sniffed the NFL draft if they played for most other schools.
 
whar success for Iowa if Kurt is soooo good at coaching up? why no Rose Bowl or NC?
why only 7 win avg?
 
Or Ferentz could not coach them up and his players may not even get drafted? That KF is "hurting" his players draft prospects is a stupid argument, IMO. Especially when Iowa has had as many players drafted as it has.

Besides, I really don't care that much how KF's players do in the pros. Sure, it's great to see Iowa players do well in the NFL, but Ferentz is a COLLEGE coach.. Getting his players to play well at IOWA is his job. If they have the ability and they are well coached in college, their NFL career will take care of itself IMO.
 
hawkfarmer said:
I think it's pointing to the fact that they are technically and fundamentally sound where as some other guys, like the Memphis DT are very raw but have huge upside. Mostly he is pointing out that though they aren't 5* guys they are sound and though they have upside it's not untapped raw athletic ability that they can mold as much in the NFL.
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That's pretty well said, there.
 
My guess is, the guy on the radio was a cyclone fan, since every thread about Hawkeyes being drafted has been hijaked by lil brother. As others have posted, Yanda was the first player that came to mind to disprove this guys point. Yanda, was not a highly drafted player and earned a spot in the pro bowl last year. He is also considered one of the nastiest gaurds in the NFL by opposing players. His improvement has been vast plain and simple. Another point, the OL is Kirk's specialty and Yanda improved in the NFL after having the captain as his coach. This proves players who had one to one coaching from Ferentz still have an upside.
 
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