Iowa Wins Combine, but...

Northside Hawk said:
You just keep chortling on. Your Ferentz disdain is cutting off the circulation to your brain. The west went 9-1 in bowl games the past two seasons and that's without Nebraska, who will probably be back in a bowl in 2019. No way does tOSU average one loss per season without Urb and Francis is going to have to prove he can coach without McSorley and Barkley, cultural inertia notwithstanding.

Fleck, for all his bluster, is no mirage. Minnesota in November was a completely different team from a physical standpoint than they were when we played them in early October. At the very least the West will be much deeper and seasons like Iowa 2015 and Wisconsin 2016 and 2017 will be more difficult to achieve. I could easily see two and three loss teams winning the division again, like Northwestern did last year.
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The West's bowl anomaly is poor evidence. Who was the the top team in the Big Ten last year? OSU. Then who? Michigan. The middling schools will have success here or there, but nothing will change long-term unless they find a way to recruit like the biggies. You can keep rowing the boat with Fleckster.
 
HawkleberryFinn said:
The West's bowl anomaly is poor evidence. Who was the the top team in the Big Ten last year? OSU. Then who? Michigan. The middling schools will have success here or there, but nothing will change long-term unless they find a way to recruit like the biggies. You can keep rowing the boat with Fleckster.
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Michigan fell behind tOSU, MSU and Penn State during the Brady Hoke/Rich Rod eras. It can happen if the wrong coach is in place. Regardless of how well the Michigan brand attracts recruits.

The point of my original post focuses on Michigan and Ohio State. And how OSU will probably slip a notch without Urb and Michigan with Harbaugh is probably about a notch below expectations (mostly because Harbaugh couldn't solve Meyer)
Francis, who I think is an overrated coach, now has to move on without McSorley and the intangibles he brought to the table.

Let's see how things play out in 2019 and 2020 as Frost, Fleck amd Brohm take their best swings. I'll bet the west beats the east in cumulative crossover games!
 
Northside Hawk said:
Michigan fell behind tOSU, MSU and Penn State during the Brady Hoke/Rich Rod eras. It can happen if the wrong coach is in place. Regardless of how well the Michigan brand attracts recruits.

The point of my original post focuses on Michigan and Ohio State. And how OSU will probably slip a notch without Urb and Michigan with Harbaugh is probably about a notch below expectations (mostly because Harbaugh couldn't solve Meyer)
Francis, who I think is an overrated coach, now has to move on without McSorley and the intangibles he brought to the table.

Let's see how things play out in 2019 and 2020 as Frost, Fleck amd Brohm take their best swings. I'll bet the west beats the east in cumulative crossover games!
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Minnesota and Purdue, at best, will reach Northwestern success levels (but probably not). If coaches leave (Brohm), this will change. There's just no evidence, historical or otherwise, to conclude that the blue chip schools will be knocked off their perches anytime soon. Brian freakin Ferentz could coach at OSU and they'd still average 10.5-11 wins a year. Other teams will flash for a season or three, but it's not going to change decades of culture, money flow, name brand attraction, etc.
 
HawkleberryFinn said:
Minnesota and Purdue, at best, will reach Northwestern success levels (but probably not). If coaches leave (Brohm), this will change. There's just no evidence, historical or otherwise, to conclude that the blue chip schools will be knocked off their perches anytime soon. Brian freakin Ferentz could coach at OSU and they'd still average 10.5-11 wins a year. Other teams will flash for a season or three, but it's not going to change decades of culture, money flow, name brand attraction, etc.
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You just blew up your whole premise. If Brian Ferentz could coach at O$U and win 10.5-11 games per year, you're saying Kirk could too (by extension). So you're anti-KF crap really DOES come down to location-location-location mixed with denial-denial-denial.
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
You just blew up your whole premise. If Brian Ferentz could coach at O$U and win 10.5-11 games per year, you're saying Kirk could too (by extension). So you're anti-KF crap really DOES come down to location-location-location mixed with denial-denial-denial.
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Wrong Kirk-lover. Just because Kirk isn't at OSU doesn't immediately mean he's unaccountable--he can still do little with what he has. Kirk is not lacking accomplishment--he develops players and has had a decent season here and there. This satiates most Iowa fans. However any discerning eye can notice when talent isn't being used--this year was a prime example. Even worse, in my opinion, talent wasn't suppressed due to ignorance--it was suppressed out of spite (i.e. Fant).
 
HawkleberryFinn said:
Wrong Kirk-lover. Just because Kirk isn't at OSU doesn't immediately mean he's unaccountable--he can still do little with what he has. Kirk is not lacking accomplishment--he develops players and has had a decent season here and there. This satiates most Iowa fans. However any discerning eye can notice when talent isn't being used--this year was a prime example. Even worse, in my opinion, talent wasn't suppressed due to ignorance--it was suppressed out of spite (i.e. Fant).
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I don't blame Kirk or staff for how they used Fant. There are a few other under utilized players that are much more confusing.

First the coaching staff likely entered this season knowing that Fant was a short timer. They also correctly assessed that Hockenson was the better overall TE. They decided to invest the time in Hock because he at least had a chance of being here next year.

That said I agree with the coaches on this one. Hock is not as good of a sprinter as Fant but is the better total TE. I will bet money that Hockenson ends up with the longer and better pro career, but I imagine that will be Kirk's fault as well.

Also all the "Fant is God" shit around here is silly. 10 of his touchdowns came from being so beautifully schemed open that Rob Howe could have scored them. For all of Fant's speed and size we rarely saw him make a contested catch. I don't recall Fant ever once posterizing a undersized CB or Saftey. The guy is good, but not even close to other TE's we have had.
 
Adam said:
I don't blame Kirk or staff for how they used Fant. There are a few other under utilized players that are much more confusing.

First the coaching staff likely entered this season knowing that Fant was a short timer. They also correctly assessed that Hockenson was the better overall TE. They decided to invest the time in Hock because he at least had a chance of being here next year.

That said I agree with the coaches on this one. Hock is not as good of a sprinter as Fant but is the better total TE. I will bet money that Hockenson ends up with the longer and better pro career, but I imagine that will be Kirk's fault as well.

Also all the "Fant is God" shit around here is silly. 10 of his touchdowns came from being so beautifully schemed open that Rob Howe could have scored them. For all of Fant's speed and size we rarely saw him make a contested catch. I don't recall Fant ever once posterizing a undersized CB or Saftey. The guy is good, but not even close to other TE's we have had.
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Fant's brother won't like this.
 
Adam said:
I don't blame Kirk or staff for how they used Fant. There are a few other under utilized players that are much more confusing.

First the coaching staff likely entered this season knowing that Fant was a short timer. They also correctly assessed that Hockenson was the better overall TE. They decided to invest the time in Hock because he at least had a chance of being here next year.

That said I agree with the coaches on this one. Hock is not as good of a sprinter as Fant but is the better total TE. I will bet money that Hockenson ends up with the longer and better pro career, but I imagine that will be Kirk's fault as well.

Also all the "Fant is God" shit around here is silly. 10 of his touchdowns came from being so beautifully schemed open that Rob Howe could have scored them. For all of Fant's speed and size we rarely saw him make a contested catch. I don't recall Fant ever once posterizing a undersized CB or Saftey. The guy is good, but not even close to other TE's we have had.
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Dead on.
 
HawkleberryFinn said:
Wrong Kirk-lover. Just because Kirk isn't at OSU doesn't immediately mean he's unaccountable--he can still do little with what he has. Kirk is not lacking accomplishment--he develops players and has had a decent season here and there. This satiates most Iowa fans. However any discerning eye can notice when talent isn't being used--this year was a prime example. Even worse, in my opinion, talent wasn't suppressed due to ignorance--it was suppressed out of spite (i.e. Fant).
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Boy, you sure think yourself "god". You have ZERO clue what went on. Face it, you got exposed, plain and simple. YOU said BF could win 10.5-11 games a year at O$U. It doesn't take much to extrapolate from there.
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
Boy, you sure think yourself "god". You have ZERO clue what went on. Face it, you got exposed, plain and simple. YOU said BF could win 10.5-11 games a year at O$U. It doesn't take much to extrapolate from there.
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God? You're kinda catty. With regard to Fant, Kirk said it wasn't his attitude. Wasn't grades. Sure as hell wasn't his ability. "Coincidentally" happened after the brother incident. Kirk has been known to doghouse people. Seems to me there are plenty of clues. I'm not the only one who sees this.

With regard to Brian, I don't get your point. My point was that the OSU program is such a leviathan at this point, many average coaches would be successful by virtue of being there. It doesn't follow, as you seem to suggest, that the same coaches are going to be successful at a university without those program luxuries because...they have to maximize the tools available. Kirk/Brian don't maximize. They develop individuals, but the team cohesion/in-game use needs improvement.
 
HawkleberryFinn said:
God? You're kinda catty. With regard to Fant, Kirk said it wasn't his attitude. Wasn't grades. Sure as hell wasn't his ability. "Coincidentally" happened after the brother incident. Kirk has been known to doghouse people. Seems to me there are plenty of clues. I'm not the only one who sees this.

With regard to Brian, I don't get your point. My point was that the OSU program is such a leviathan at this point, many average coaches would be successful by virtue of being there. It doesn't follow, as you seem to suggest, that the same coaches are going to be successful at a university without those program luxuries because...they have to maximize the tools available. Kirk/Brian don't maximize. They develop individuals, but the team cohesion/in-game use needs improvement.
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<<Kirk has been known to doghouse people>>

Be specific. With evidence.

<<With regard to Brian, I don't get your point>>

Of course you don't. You talked yourself into a corner. Iowa doesn't have those program "luxuries", never has been or even approached (save for the Evy years where he later admitted Iowa took some "fliers" in terms of academic qualifications) "leviathan" status in any of our lifetimes.
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
<<Kirk has been known to doghouse people>>

Be specific. With evidence.

<<With regard to Brian, I don't get your point>>

Of course you don't. You talked yourself into a corner. Iowa doesn't have those program "luxuries", never has been or even approached (save for the Evy years where he later admitted Iowa took some "fliers" in terms of academic qualifications) "leviathan" status in any of our lifetimes.
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Now you're scatchin for evidence BOB. DJK, Adam Robinson, and now Fant--post-brother. In fact, who in their right mind argues that Fant was utilized to his fullest extenent? Bob apparently.

You're not addressing my question on Brian and Krik BOB. What years did they perform to their potential and what year didn't they? Onus is on you home boy.
 
HawkleberryFinn said:
Now you're scatchin for evidence BOB. DJK, Adam Robinson, and now Fant--post-brother. In fact, who in their right mind argues that Fant was utilized to his fullest extenent? Bob apparently.

You're not addressing my question on Brian and Krik BOB. What years did they perform to their potential and what year didn't they? Onus is on you home boy.
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You're an absolute denier. DJK? Drugs. Robinson? Drugs.

What years did they perform to their potential? Better question is, how do you know they aren't? You assume potential is limitless. My point is, as you pointed out, Iowa plays to its level. We don't get a roster of 5* guys, thus, we will not be a consistent 5* team year-in, year-out.

You already answered it when you hung yourself with the O$U observation .
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
You're an absolute denier. DJK? Drugs. Robinson? Drugs.

What years did they perform to their potential? Better question is, how do you know they aren't? You assume potential is limitless. My point is, as you pointed out, Iowa plays to its level. We don't get a roster of 5* guys, thus, we will not be a consistent 5* team year-in, year-out.

You already answered it when you hung yourself with the O$U observation .
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DJK was in the doghouse before drugs, if you remember.

Your error all along has been in your assumption. I never said we should be or could be a 5* team year in and year out--you assumed this. I simply think we could be better than we are if we utilized the talent we have. Again, I'm not alone in this assessment and it's obvious. Fant is the most recent glaring example, but there have been others in the past--instances where Ferentz plays seniority over talent--Marc Morehouse even has a term for it: "union carded."
 
HawkleberryFinn said:
DJK was in the doghouse before drugs, if you remember.

Your error all along has been in your assumption. I never said we should be or could be a 5* team year in and year out--you assumed this. I simply think we could be better than we are if we utilized the talent we have. Again, I'm not alone in this assessment and it's obvious. Fant is the most recent glaring example, but there have been others in the past--instances where Ferentz plays seniority over talent--Marc Morehouse even has a term for it: "union carded."
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Are you done digging yet?? Phone is from China will ya?!?
 
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