Iowa v UNI Two Deep

Oh please stop with this crap. There was a frickin' thread over the weekend that said the same thing. It simply isn't the case. If it was Kroul, King, Klug, Greenway, Hodge, Clark, Gallery, Reiff, Sanders, Sash, Greenwood, etc. wouldn't have been 3 and 4 years starters at their positions.

It is a lame argument that people bring up as another reason why they hate KF and it just isn't true. For whatever reason the back up at any position is better than the guy in front of them.

It really is laughable the stuff people make up as to why they hate our head coach.

the backups are always better when you lose....suprised you didn't know that, see about 1000 posts on here. I am sure it doesn't have anything to do with schemes or assignments...pure athleticism advantage is all it takes...
 
I have concluded from the remarks in this thread that Kirk is trying to lose games by playing Donatell rather than Nico Law. That way, he can get fired. And, I am also sure that Donatell's/Law's position coach is being over ruled by Kirk. And, they should certainly bench Donatell since they have watched him everyday in practice, along with Law, and have made a really poor decision. Maybe these guys have never evaluated players before. Oh, yeah. That is it. Good grief, you guys.

you mean the coaches see about 10,000 times more of these guys than we do, surely your wrong and the fans can tell from watching the backups on special teams that they are better in every way.
 
Nico Law should be starting already. Considering we heard all offseason how even Nico and he were, there's zero upside to starting Tom Donatell. Nico is the guy who has a chance to be a very strong player. If you don't give him proper reps this season, you're in the exact same situation next year. The only way for him to get that experience and begin to take the next step is to play and experience in-game situations.

Remember, Jordan Bernstine couldn't start at Iowa, yet he made an NFL roster! Some things NEVER change.
 
Exactly. Simply no upside to starting Donatell.

But, like others have said, the fact that Donatell is a senior (loyalty) is the reason he's starting rather than Nico Law. I have no doubt they were going to give Donatell his chance to fail before they gave Nico a real shot. Donatell simply isn't a better player.

How do you know this? Maybe Nico makes these mistakes and more. I have a hard time believing Ferentz would intentionally start an inferior player. There's way too much money at stake. I am a huge Nico fan, but maybe they aren't seeing what they need to in practice and that's why he isn't starting.
 
Ferentz has ALWAYS played experience/loyalty over talent. Remember kyle mccann playing over Brad Banks??? mccann was absolutly horrible but he played because he was the one with experience even though the talent of Brad Banks may have won a game or two more that year (see 2002) Othere schools do it with great success but for some reason Kirk doesn't believe in it. Oh course then you have the issue of Kirk recruiting "city" kids with talent, but when they act like "city" kids he doesn't like it and they don't tend to play much. ie Shonn Greene tearing it up as a true freshman but then he fumbled and flexed to the crowd after a TD and then he was sent to the bench. That was until KF needed him and he was too good to hide.

Not even sure where to start. But here goes:

--SG didn't start because Young and Sims were, at the time, better players. SG whiffed on numerous blocks, as one example. He didn't "tear it up", he gained 100+ yards against an FCS team.
--SG also got hurt. He was unavailable.
--SG flunked out of school for the 2007 season. He was even MORE unavailable at that point.
 
Not even sure where to start. But here goes:

--SG didn't start because Young and Sims were, at the time, better players. SG whiffed on numerous blocks, as one example. He didn't "tear it up", he gained 100+ yards against an FCS team.
--SG also got hurt. He was unavailable.
--SG flunked out of school for the 2007 season. He was even MORE unavailable at that point.

Except Schnoor actually started over Sims to start the 2005 season. During the 23-3 debacle at ISU, Young played great, but every time he needed to come out Schnoor (not Sims) came in and proceeded to average about 1.5 yards per carry - with the same blocking and same schemes that Young was tearing it up on. Very similar to Paki starting over Robinson and Wegher to start the 2010 season - almost cost us the UNI game. Go re-watch that game. There were huge holes early on and Paki couldn't get to them, missed them, or decided he wanted to try to run a linebacker over instead of trying to make him miss. Nothing against Paki, but in one week he went from starting to not seeing the field again offense. How does that happen?
 
Remember, Jordan Bernstine couldn't start at Iowa, yet he made an NFL roster! Some things NEVER change.


He was hurt a good portion of his time here and was never able to stay healthy and show the type of player he could be.

I guess you forgot the horrible personal foul he was flagged for his true freshmen year when he leveled the punt returner either when the guy had signaled for a fair catch or before he even had a chance to field the punt I can't remember.

He started to finally "get it" at the end of his junior year when even KF mentioned that they were waiting for the light to go on with him.

He played very well his senior year and stayed healthy, had a good camp with the Redskins and is why he made an NFL roster nothing more nothing less.

Another couple of names that I forgot to mention on the list of guys that played early Clinton Solomon was the 3rd WR his true freshmen year before flunking out of school and Dom Douglas set a freshmen WR record here before, well I am pretty sure everybody remembers what happened to him..............
 
Originally posted by doclee I have concluded from the remarks in this thread that Kirk is trying to lose games by playing Donatell rather than Nico Law. That way, he can get fired.

If I had the time and the patience, I would make a one of those gifs that are so popular on this board that says "Jump to Conclusions Much?"


Originally posted by hoffahawk
It simply isn't the case. If it was Kroul, King, Klug, Greenway, Hodge, Clark, Gallery, Reiff, Sanders, Sash, Greenwood, etc. wouldn't have been 3 and 4 years starters at their positions.

You just gave 11 ringing endorsements for Nico Law to start … or at least play. I wonder if those guys made mistakes as young players? I wonder if those guys benefitted and became great players because they had all the experience from game repetitions as young players?


It's not ALWAYS the case at Iowa where the older player gets the nod over a younger guy, but I do believe that if a race is close, they go with the senior/older player until he fails. See: Christensen, Jake.


Originally posted by ajkhawkeyeHow do you know this?

I have eyes. I can see Nico Law has a leg up on Donatell in terms of intangibles, which is why I say he has more upside.


Look, I'm not saying Law is already better than Donatell either, and I of all people am definitely not a Kirk Ferentz hater. All I read all offseason was how even the battle was between Donatell and Law. They were even listed as co-SS going into the NIU game. Now we've seen nothing of Nico Law and it's a bit head scratching.


Making an honest assessment of the Hawkeyes, knowing full well it's not a national title nor a Big Ten title contender, I have to wonder why Law isn't getting more reps considering he's the future at the position.


That's why I say no upside in starting Donatell.


Originally posted by ajkhawkeyeMaybe Nico makes these mistakes and more.

I'm sure he does. He's young. And, the only way to correct those mistakes is for the kid to experience them in the game and learn from them.
 
I have eyes. I can see Nico Law has a leg up on Donatell in terms of intangibles, which is why I say he has more upside.

The coaches have eyes too. I know everyone is counting out this team already. I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but we will not play this season just to prepare for next season. We are going to try to get as many wins as we can this year. If the coaches think starting Donatell over Law will put us in a better position to win right now, I'm all for it. The coaches know these players better than anyone watching a game do. They know who should be starting and who shouldn't. They see these players practice all week. Obviously they are seeing something they like in Donatell and something they don't in Law. I jumped on the Law bandwagon this summer too, but let's face facts: if Donatell stays healthy and plays adequate, he is going to keep starting.
 
I know everyone is counting out this team already.

No. No, I'm not. I'm one of the few people who said 8-9 wins. I'll stand by that until it doesn't happen. I still don't believe it's quite as doom and gloom as the attitudes suggest. I expected our defense to struggle and our offense to flourish. I expected Iowa to be in 30-28 type games with the offense needing to "out-shoot" people. Considering the defense has performed as well as it has, I think there's reason for optimism. The offense will come along, but considering there are a lot of new faces on that side of the ball, and a brand new system with different signals, verbiage, etc., it's going to take time.

The point is, we heard all offseason how even the battle for the SS spot was. If it was so even, why aren't we seeing Nico Law and allowing him to get his feet wet? Believe me, I'm not one of these people who thinks he's the next Bob Sanders here. But, he's a promising young player who is potentially a future leader of our defense. If he's that close, I have a hard time not seeing him get any reps whatsoever. Throw him back there every third series and see what he can do. Let him read real, live offenses. If he performs well, throw him in every second series and let it progress from there.

I'll ask you this question ajkhawkeye: In your honest opinion, from what you see in practice and in games, do you believe Tom Donatell is better than Nico Law to the point where Law sees no time on defense?
 
I'll ask you this question ajkhawkeye: In your honest opinion, from what you see in practice and in games, do you believe Tom Donatell is better than Nico Law to the point where Law sees no time on defense?
I have only seen one practice this year (the second open one) and two games. I honestly don't know how good Law is compared to Donatell. All I am trying to say is that I trust our coaches who do see every practice to make the correct decision on which player they believe is better and puts us in a better position to win football games. I think we all at least owe Ferentz that. And if they see something down the road that makes them decide Law is better, then start him. Right now they think Donatell is better.
 
Originally posted by ajkhawkeye
All I am trying to say is that I trust our coaches who do see every practice to make the correct decision on which player they believe is better and puts us in a better position to win football games. I think we all at least owe Ferentz that.

Let me preface this comment by saying I am a Kirk Ferentz fan. I love that he's not a rah, rah guy, I believe he's strong in recruiting players to Iowa, I think he owns many many attributes that make him a great coach, and I don't believe there are many coaches out there who could run Iowa better than he could.

That said, it's also my opinion that a fan of a team owes its coach nothing. It's a coach's responsibility to put a competitive team on the field - he owes the fans that.

Ferentz has rightly gained a lot of leeway, given his track record, but this instance seems so glaringly obvious it's not even funny. What frustrates me the most is that we've got a potentially great player like this who is burning through two years of eligibility with very little playing time.

All I'm saying is with the competition between Donatell and Law so close - and the coaches are on record saying it was - that Nico Law deserves playing time and it's in the best interest of the program to get him that playing time.

Originally posted by ajkhawkeye
And if they see something down the road that makes them decide Law is better, then start him. Right now they think Donatell is better.

And right now, they are wrong. Neck and neck with the edge going to the senior, I'll give you. Better? No.

All I keep hearing is "well maybe Nico struggles in pass coverage." Yet another quote from a coach says that isn't the case. And, I doubt he could do any worse than what Donatell did Saturday. Word is, the burn unit across the street was prepping for surgery after how bad Donatell got torched. Fortunately, Steele Jantz couldn't put it anywhere near his receivers on the deep balls.
 
Neck and neck with the edge going to the senior, I'll give you. Better? No.
And honestly if they are neck and neck, I would choose the senior every single time over a sophomore. Unless that sophomore shows irrefutably that he can trusted to make most of the right plays and is better than the senior, you go with the person who has been in the system for two plus more years and has represented the school well (i.e. not getting into trouble). I'm sure the coaches have noted those blown coverages and hopefully are making adjustments because we cannot be making those same mistakes against teams with QBs not named Jortz.
Also, who knows if Ferentz is making the call with this one? Maybe Darrell Wilson is. Just a thought.
 
No. No, I'm not. I'm one of the few people who said 8-9 wins. I'll stand by that until it doesn't happen. I still don't believe it's quite as doom and gloom as the attitudes suggest. I expected our defense to struggle and our offense to flourish. I expected Iowa to be in 30-28 type games with the offense needing to "out-shoot" people. Considering the defense has performed as well as it has, I think there's reason for optimism. The offense will come along, but considering there are a lot of new faces on that side of the ball, and a brand new system with different signals, verbiage, etc., it's going to take time.

The point is, we heard all offseason how even the battle for the SS spot was. If it was so even, why aren't we seeing Nico Law and allowing him to get his feet wet? Believe me, I'm not one of these people who thinks he's the next Bob Sanders here. But, he's a promising young player who is potentially a future leader of our defense. If he's that close, I have a hard time not seeing him get any reps whatsoever. Throw him back there every third series and see what he can do. Let him read real, live offenses. If he performs well, throw him in every second series and let it progress from there.

I'll ask you this question ajkhawkeye: In your honest opinion, from what you see in practice and in games, do you believe Tom Donatell is better than Nico Law to the point where Law sees no time on defense?

This. Nico played when TD was hurt, and he looked prettu good, and he defintely has more upside. Those that want to burry their head in the sand and follow KF blindly on all decisions are fools. We are all thinkning humans who have eyes and can see what happens on game days to us that is what matters. I will always stand by the fact KF is an extremely moralized grounded person so perhaps the reasons we don't see Nico more has nothing to do with game play. I totally agree with the fact the other posters brought up about past players such as Greene, Robinson, Wegher etc. KF has never been a talent wins games guy and he never will be. This defines my fine line between love and hate with KF. Although, I will never truly hate him.
 
How do you know this? Maybe Nico makes these mistakes and more. I have a hard time believing Ferentz would intentionally start an inferior player. There's way too much money at stake. I am a huge Nico fan, but maybe they aren't seeing what they need to in practice and that's why he isn't starting.


Maybe you are right. But the Nico we saw Saturday played well, and did NOT get burned repeatedly by receivers. The Donatell we saw Saturday did get burned.

Those are the facts.
 
Except Schnoor actually started over Sims to start the 2005 season. During the 23-3 debacle at ISU, Young played great, but every time he needed to come out Schnoor (not Sims) came in and proceeded to average about 1.5 yards per carry - with the same blocking and same schemes that Young was tearing it up on. Very similar to Paki starting over Robinson and Wegher to start the 2010 season - almost cost us the UNI game. Go re-watch that game. There were huge holes early on and Paki couldn't get to them, missed them, or decided he wanted to try to run a linebacker over instead of trying to make him miss. Nothing against Paki, but in one week he went from starting to not seeing the field again offense. How does that happen?

Sims was both hurt at beginning of 2005 AND had been working at DB. AY was the starter. Paki started against UNI in 2009.

And in 2005, once Tate got hurt against ISU, the rest of the game was a forgone conclusion...
 

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