Iowa sends 20% of Iowa recruits to the NFL - Iowa State? 0%

[20eyes]

What about walkons and 2 stars? Thats what hes getting at with the segments comment.

Yes Iowa gets the highly rated guys from the state most of the time, but
Iowa has also put guys in the NFL from the state that Isu did not even offer, like Dallas Clark, Steinbach, Brandon Myers. Did ISU offer Julian Vandervelde? I don't know on that one.

ISU is not putting many walkon and 2 stars in the draft.

Iowas staff is just better at identifying and developing players that almost anyone else in the country but it doesn't seem to help them all that much in recruiting or W\L anyway.

Which of these players did PR & Co. whiff on?

Iowa's staff is the gold standard for player identification and development. No doubt about it. And regarding Campos - the proof is in the pudding, he'd have an excellent shot at the NFL by going to Iowa. But the premise of the article is flawed in that it's a 400m race in which the starters pistol went off for PR when KF was at the 300m mark.

As has been stated previously I think Jake Knott gets drafted next year and the trend begins to change. However, I don't see ISU EVER catching Iowa in placing Iowa kids in the pros. Iowa will always start with a talent advantage regarding those kids.

 

[hogeye]

Which of these players did PR & Co. whiff on?
...But the premise of the article is flawed in that it's a 400m race in which the starters pistol went off for PR when KF was at the 300m mark...

I think the article and the discussion on the thread have been fairly geared toward Iowa vs. ISU, not KF vs. PR specifically.

 

[hawkfan340]

All segments of what? Iowa brought in 42 Iowa guys. Iowa State brought in 50. Iowa guys got drafted and zero ISU guys did.

Why? Because Iowa started with the most talented players to begin with. This is not an apples to apples comparison. Use any date you like and tell me from that point which program got the majority of the top five (top 3, top 10 etc.) in-state players. That's the one putting players into the NFL.

Are you intimating that KF would be putting our Iowa guys into the NFL? Prove it.

Segments of star rankings. If you compare Iowa 2-stars to ISU 2-stars, Iowa does more. Same with 3-stars. Same with 4 stars. That's apples to apples.

It's not simply about getting the best talent, and we can go further to show this. In the 2002-2009 time period, ISU got 20 3-star recruits and during the same time Iowa got 14 2-star recruits. Segmenting the data in this way gives ISU an advantageous starting position in talent. Yet, Iowa put 3 of their recruits in the NFL draft to 0 for ISU.

It's not simply about talent.

 

[20eyes]

I think the article and the discussion on the thread have been fairly geared toward Iowa vs. ISU, not KF vs. PR specifically.

One doesn't exist w/o the other. These years (2002-09) include the Gene Chizik era who recruited the state of Iowa abysmally. A valid comparison is KF recruiting to PR recruiting if you're truly only using statistics to sway Jake Campos.

 

[hogeye]

One doesn't exist w/o the other. These years (2002-09) include the Gene Chizik era who recruited the state of Iowa abysmally. A valid comparison is KF recruiting to PR recruiting if you're truly only using statistics to sway Jake Campos.

Yes, it does exist without the other. If am comparing ISU to Iowa prior to PR being coach there is absolutely a discussion there.

 

[brett108]

I think the article and the discussion on the thread have been fairly geared toward Iowa vs. ISU, not KF vs. PR specifically.

Yes, but it is not a fair one then. At large, historic programs the program might be better than the coach, but the evidence has always suggested that the coach is the program. Michigan and ND are as blue blood as they come but their recent coaching changes have not produced very good results. So the question is can PR show he is a good evaluator and developer of talent? Time will tell. Ferentz has done a great job with some lower ranked recruits, but sure things have not always panned out. Just ask Alex Kanelis, Blake Larson, and out of state guys like Dan Doering.

 

[20eyes]

Yes, it does exist without the other. If am comparing ISU to Iowa prior to PR being coach there is absolutely a discussion there.

A discussion about what? The past? Sure there is.

But the statistics presented are easily refuted by PR as cherry-picking. On the ISU side between 2002-09 you're talking about three coaching staffs one of which (Chizik's) had little to no interest in recruiting the state of Iowa.

 

[hogeye]

Yes, but it is not a fair one then. At large, historic programs the program might be better than the coach, but the evidence has always suggested that the coach is the program. Michigan and ND are as blue blood as they come but their recent coaching changes have not produced very good results. So the question is can PR show he is a good evaluator and developer of talent? Time will tell. Ferentz has done a great job with some lower ranked recruits, but sure things have not always panned out. Just ask Alex Kanelis, Blake Larson, and out of state guys like Dan Doering.

First, and I would say irrelevant to your point, I wouldn't have called any of those guys sure things. I didn't call Jake Christensen a sure thing, but then again I don't go labeling players as elite on a whim as most do these days.

Secondly, it is fair. You're always going to have discussions that revolve around the programs in general. Always. You will never eliminate them. I understand your recent found hope in PR as a coach probably has you chomping at the bit to draw an imaginary line in the sand going forward.

The reality is that conversation exists, like it or not, and you have to take the good with bad.

 

[hogeye]

But the statistics presented are easily refuted by PR as cherry-picking.

Then PR can put out his own stats on his timeline and write his own article. No one is contesting that.

 

[vosov]

Yes, but it is not a fair one then. At large, historic programs the program might be better than the coach, but the evidence has always suggested that the coach is the program. Michigan and ND are as blue blood as they come but their recent coaching changes have not produced very good results. So the question is can PR show he is a good evaluator and developer of talent? Time will tell. Ferentz has done a great job with some lower ranked recruits, but sure things have not always panned out. Just ask Alex Kanelis, Blake Larson, and out of state guys like Dan Doering.

To be fair to the guys you mentioned.

Kanelis-career cut short by injury

Larson-injuried most of career

Doering-injuried most of career

Also, how can you possibly say that Michigan's recent coaching change has not produced very good results? Did they have to win the national title in year one?

 

[HomerChampless]

...
Iowas staff is just better at identifying and developing players that almost anyone else in the country but it doesn't seem to help them all that much in recruiting or W\L anyway.

Iowa's staff, under Ferentz, is good at developing OL,TE, DL, and occasionally safety for the NFL.
Iowa's staff, under Ferentz, has not had much success in developing RB, WR, QB, LB, and DB for the NFL.

A few punters and kickers have gone to the NFL from Iowa.

 

[cmhawks99]

Iowa's staff, under Ferentz, is good at developing OL,TE, DL, and occasionally safety for the NFL.
Iowa's staff, under Ferentz, has not had much success in developing RB, WR, QB, LB, and DB for the NFL.

A few punters and kickers have gone to the NFL from Iowa.

You’ve got to be kidding me right……I don’t know what’s worse. That people say this stuff to begin with or that they say it and don’t even bother looking to see if their smoking crack…..

Here are the DB’s currently in the NFL…..

Bernstein…Considine…Fletcher….Godfrey….Prater….Sash….Spievey….

This of course doesn’t count Bowen, Sanders, Pagel, etc who all had decent although injury shortened careers…..I’ve probably missed more.

Here are the Lbers…..Angerer, Edds, Greenway, Hunter, Tarpinian…..this doesn’t count Hodge and Miles and Barr and Humpal and maybe a few others who got drafted or played.

The implication by Homer being its “only linemen” (not to mention 30 plus “NFL” O and D linemen would nearly win games by themselves by hey who uses logic anymore) and therefore KF isn’t really any good at getting the special or “important” players. Cleary wrong as you can see.

Heck for that matter Albert Young spent several years in the league and the ill-informed may think only having 1 Rber in the league is a big thing, but do some checking around. Iowa compares very favorably at most all positions….especially ALL defensive positions….

This stuff can easily be researched on ESPN……

 

[Lyddea]

Iowa's staff, under Ferentz, is good at developing OL,TE, DL, and occasionally safety for the NFL.
Iowa's staff, under Ferentz, has not had much success in developing RB, WR, QB, LB, and DB for the NFL.

A few punters and kickers have gone to the NFL from Iowa.

Pat Angerer and Chad Greenway say hello.

And to help you guys out, scroll down to the Iowa section on this page (and beyond to the Iowa State section if you dare):

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/i

 

[brett108]

To be fair to the guys you mentioned.

Kanelis-career cut short by injury

Larson-injuried most of career

Doering-injuried most of career

Also, how can you possibly say that Michigan's recent coaching change has not produced very good results? Did they have to win the national title in year one?

I was talking more about RichRod. Hoke has only been there a year. he is recruiting well, but Michigan was not a world beater last year. They could be in the future though.

 

[cmhawks99]

Pat Angerer and Chad Greenway say hello.

And to help you guys out, scroll down to the Iowa section on this page (and beyond to the Iowa State section if you dare):

NFL Players by College - I - National Football League - ESPN

Now that I think of it Homer may already know that just wanting to be how he is.....

Clearly this Iowa team has produced plenty of talent team wide. If he'd said QB and WR and to a lessor degree Rber Id have agreed, but what he said was waaaaaayyyyy off. And honestly if you look about, people would likely be surprised who is or isn’t producing QB’s, WR’s and Rbers…

 

[RocknRollface]

Which of these players did PR & Co. whiff on?

Iowa's staff is the gold standard for player identification and development. No doubt about it. And regarding Campos - the proof is in the pudding, he'd have an excellent shot at the NFL by going to Iowa. But the premise of the article is flawed in that it's a 400m race in which the starters pistol went off for PR when KF was at the 300m mark.

As has been stated previously I think Jake Knott gets drafted next year and the trend begins to change. However, I don't see ISU EVER catching Iowa in placing Iowa kids in the pros. Iowa will always start with a talent advantage regarding those kids.

Im not disagreeing on any of your points, just clarifying what I assume the other poster meant on the segments comment.

Meaning even if you only look at walkons and 2 stars and remove the highly rated talent, Iowa is still sending more.

Granted those were pre Paul Roads so not an indictment on him for not identifying them as talented.