Iowa Running game issues

[hwk23]

This is sort of expanding on the Miller and Deace podcast. Looking at yards per attempt, probably the best measure of how effectively a team runs, Iowa hasn't been in the top 50 since 2008. Iowa was in the top 50 five times from 2001 to 2008. What changed? Maybe the RBs were better in those years but also maybe other teams have "figured out" our idiosyncrasies; things like our audibles, blocking schemes, etc, idk? Was Philibin the difference? We had Wadley in 2017 and were 100th.

Yards Per Rush Attempt
2019 73rd
2018 88th
2017 100th
2016 52nd
2015 59th
2014 76th
2013 77th
2012 99th
2011 72nd
2010 54th
2009 102nd
2008 24th
2007 92nd
2006 51st
2005 22nd
2004 117th
2003 41st
2002 11th
2001 31st

 

[uihawk82]

Interesting stats and funny how 2004 just jumps right out of that list yet the hawks won a Big 10 championship.

Perhaps this is the result of like you said just opponents having years and years of watching the same main 2 blocking schemes of inside and outside zone.

Some years like 2001 with Betts, 2008 with Green, 2002 with Russell, some better Off line personnel and the newness of the scheme the hawks ran the ball really well.

There is one thing that is a little different the last 6-8 years or so and that is how deep the running back lines up in the back field. Russell, Lewis, Albert Young, and Green would line up about 2 yards deeper in the backfield than what Canzeri, Wadley and other have been for some years now. With the running back deeper the QB would take one or two more strides back from the LOS to meet the running back. If you remember this is what Alvarez was doing with his backs in the 1990's as Darrell Bevell would be well back before handing off or faking.

That type of technique would give the line more time to work on their blocks, push the defense and as you remember there would be big cutback lanes that the running back had more time to see and make cuts to.

Watch any of Russell's runs from 2002 and 2003 and you will see this..

 

[NikeHawk21]

I started a thread on whether or not we should scrap the zone blocking schemes before the start of the season. I wish I had these stats in that thread.

I’m definitely in favor of scraping our zone blocking schemes. They produce way too many negative rushing plays.

 

[NikeHawk21]

We are known for offensive line play and being a running team yet we’ve been sub 100 in rush yards per attempt more times than we’ve been top 20. Yikes

 

[uihawk82]

I started a thread on whether or not we should scrap the zone blocking schemes before the start of the season. I wish I had these stats in that thread.

I’m definitely in favor of scraping our zone blocking schemes. They produce way too many negative rushing plays.

I have wondered this some myself the last couple of years. When the outside zone is working really well and you have the really good cutback running back it can lead to big yards. There is built in counter play action with the cutbacks and if there is a seam or a seal off to the side where the blocking is going then good yards can be made.

I have seen BF run some pulling linemen back against the direction of zone blocking to trap a linemen and it works.

I guess to me the best thing is use zone, trapping, and straight power isolation blocking to like the old McKay USC Power I blast play and then the defense is not so sure what is coming.

Mix it up.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I have wondered this some myself the last couple of years. When the outside zone is working really well and you have the really good cutback running back it can lead to big yards. There is built in counter play action with the cutbacks and if there is a seam or a seal off to the side where the blocking is going then good yards can be made.

I have seen BF run some pulling linemen back against the direction of zone blocking to trap a linemen and it works.

I guess to me the best thing is use zone, trapping, and straight power isolation blocking to like the old McKay USC Power I blast play and then the defense is not so sure what is coming.

Mix it up.

I would love the old McKay USC power I and straight power isolation blocking.

All we need are Mike Garrett, OJ Simpson, Anthony Davis and Ricky Bell.

 

[hawkeyes87]

I’m definitely in favor of scraping our zone blocking schemes. They produce way too many negative rushing plays.

Agree.

As defenses have evolved to defend against passing / spread teams, they've gotten smaller but faster.

That means, when we run outside zone, the backside pursuit is faster, and on the frontside we frequently see the defense shoot thru any gaps before the backs can get there. Which leads to the negative plays you mention.

Smaller but faster defense is also why Wisconsin's straight-ahead, mauler style has worked so well.

 

[homes]

I would love the old McKay USC power I and straight power isolation blocking.

All we need are Mike Garrett, OJ Simpson, Anthony Davis and Ricky Bell.

They're getting a little long in the tooth, and Ricky has gone to the great Student Body Right in the sky (RIP).

 

[revkev73]

The frustration for many is this...there are lots of stats that identify problems in the running game, schemes, etc. and yet the decision that is made game after game and year after year is to decide to change nothing. Just keep doing it... I am sure the D Coordinators we face love it, but the fans, not so much. It is quite puzzling.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Pretty hard to look at those numbers and not see fail in the Polasek/BFz combo

 

[hawkeyes87]

All we need are Mike Garrett, OJ Simpson, Anthony Davis and Ricky Bell.

Can't end the list there! Charles White was the man! Then Marcus Allen.

Talk about reloading at a position. All won the Heisman except Davis (was 2nd) and Bell (3rd).

 

[Northside Hawk]

Interesting stats and funny how 2004 just jumps right out of that list yet the hawks won a Big 10 championship.

Perhaps this is the result of like you said just opponents having years and years of watching the same main 2 blocking schemes of inside and outside zone.

Some years like 2001 with Betts, 2008 with Green, 2002 with Russell, some better Off line personnel and the newness of the scheme the hawks ran the ball really well.

There is one thing that is a little different the last 6-8 years or so and that is how deep the running back lines up in the back field. Russell, Lewis, Albert Young, and Green would line up about 2 yards deeper in the backfield than what Canzeri, Wadley and other have been for some years now. With the running back deeper the QB would take one or two more strides back from the LOS to meet the running back. If you remember this is what Alvarez was doing with his backs in the 1990's as Darrell Bevell would be well back before handing off or faking.

That type of technique would give the line more time to work on their blocks, push the defense and as you remember there would be big cutback lanes that the running back had more time to see and make cuts to.

Watch any of Russell's runs from 2002 and 2003 and you will see this..

2004 is understandable. We lost five backs that year.

We relied heavily on Tate, the kicking game, and the defense. We did manage to get Marques Simmons back for the bowl game and he scored a crucial TD, but our inability to close that game on the ground contributed mightily to LSU's furious fourth quarter comeback-and our even more spectacular finish!

 

[Northside Hawk]

Can't end the list there! Charles White was the man! Then Marcus Allen.

Talk about reloading at a position. All won the Heisman except Davis (was 2nd) and Bell (3rd).

Your correct. But that was the John Robinson era, though he more or less ran the same offense John McKay did.

Anyone know who McKay learned that "student body left/right I formation from? It was Don Coryell, who was offensive coordinator at USC in the early sixties. Coryell then went on to college stardom at San Diego State, then the St Louis Cardinals and San Diego Chargers of the NFL. He never won a super bowl ring, but two of his San Diego State assistants did-Joe Gibbs (three) and John Madden (one, plus a famous post coaching broadcast career)

 

[uihawk82]

I started a thread on whether or not we should scrap the zone blocking schemes before the start of the season. I wish I had these stats in that thread.

I’m definitely in favor of scraping our zone blocking schemes. They produce way too many negative rushing plays.

Negative or no gain into 8 tacklers

 

[uihawk82]

Your correct. But that was the John Robinson era, though he more or less ran the same offense John McKay did.

Anyone know who McKay learned that "student body left/right I formation from? It was Don Coryell, who was offensive coordinator at USC in the early sixties. Coryell then went on to college stardom at San Diego State, then the St Louis Cardinals and San Diego Chargers of the NFL. He never won a super bowl ring, but two of his San Diego State assistants did-Joe Gibbs (three) and John Madden (one, plus a famous post coaching broadcast career)

Yes and Coryell was a great passing game coach and had some high octane offenses.

 

[revkev73]

Negative or no gain into 8 tacklers

Well, you know how it will end. We don't want to complain too much, though, or we will be without KF and become helpless and hopeless.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Yes and Coryell was a great passing game coach and had some high octane offenses.

His NFL Cardinal teams had the best offensive line in the NFL, breathtaking skill position talent, but would always seem to lose big games to the Redskins or Cowboys, or get knocked out by the Vikings or Rams if they did manage to make postseason.

He also had high flyers at San Diego, and a great defense, but Houston's Bum Phillips had his number in the postseason. He also lost AFC championship games to Oakland and Cincinnati in back to back years.

The defense started to unravel when they weren't willing to pay pass rushing specialist Fred Dean and they fumbled him away eventually to the 49'ers who said "Thank you very much, we could use a pass rusher. Thanks for the ring."

 

[trj]

I started a thread on whether or not we should scrap the zone blocking schemes before the start of the season. I wish I had these stats in that thread.

I’m definitely in favor of scraping our zone blocking schemes. They produce way too many negative rushing plays.

Scraping the zone blocking scheme would mean a complete overhaul. I said it once, I will say it a million times, it is far easier to execute Wisconsin's power run scheme, than Iowa's zone blocking scheme. The flip side of it, is that it is easier to find and develop o-lineman for Iowa's zone blocking scheme. Those monsters that Wisconsin find and develop are hard to come by and they do not grow on trees.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Scraping the zone blocking scheme would mean a complete overhaul. I said it once, I will say it a million times, it is far easier to execute Wisconsin's power run scheme, than Iowa's zone blocking scheme. The flip side of it, is that it is easier to find and develop o-lineman for Iowa's zone blocking scheme. Those monsters that Wisconsin find and develop are hard to come by and they do not grow on trees.

I agree with the first part.

I’m not sure if I agree with the second part about Iowa not being able to get those guys. Look at some of the size on the recent linemen Iowa has landed.

Ezra Miller 6’6 / 310
Tyler Endres 6’6 / 305
Tyler Elsbury 6’6 / 298
Josh Volk 6’4 / 304

Iowa can recruit the offensive line and with the help of Doyle should be able to develop these guys. Heck look at A Jackson and Wirfs, they have plenty of size. You have to wonder if at Wisconsin one or both of those guys might play guard.

Anyway point being I don’t think there is any reason we can’t recruit and develop the big maulers on the Oline similar time UW. Heck even a poor poor mans UW would be much better than where we are right now based on the numbers laid out in the OP.

 

[trj]

I agree with the first part.

I’m not sure if I agree with the second part about Iowa not being able to get those guys. Look at some of the size on the recent linemen Iowa has landed.

Ezra Miller 6’6 / 310
Tyler Endres 6’6 / 305
Tyler Elsbury 6’6 / 298
Josh Volk 6’4 / 304

Iowa can recruit the offensive line and with the help of Doyle should be able to develop these guys. Heck look at A Jackson and Wirfs, they have plenty of size. You have to wonder if at Wisconsin one or both of those guys might play guard.

Anyway point being I don’t think there is any reason we can’t recruit and develop the big maulers on the Oline similar time UW. Heck even a poor poor mans UW would be much better than where we are right now based on the numbers laid out in the OP.

Can those guys get to 330+ lbs. and straight up maul people? They weren’t recruited to be those type of guys. They were recruited to be agile, reach that second level where they can get to linebackers and safeties.