Iowa BBall... Who's Deserves the Blame?

[IAHawkFan]

Just a few comments...

For the OP:

Tom Davis took his teams to post-season tournaments 11 of the 13 seasons he was here. One of the 2 times he did no go to a tourny was 1990, his last year that he had GR recruits. The 1991 season, his first year will nothing but his own recruits, he won 21 games.

Iowa has put 74 players into the NBA (52 drafted, 22 non-drafted) in the 62 years that the NBA has existed. Our last player drafted was in 1999 (JR Koch). That is an average of about 1.2 players/year. I would say that is a bit more than just GR's players and a "couple of others".

We have needed the facilities for years. Tom Davis was promised new practice facilities when he came in 1986. I'm not entirely certain (it's a bit before my time), but I believe that Lute had asked for them in the early 1980's.


For others:

The Fieldhouse was LOUD. You were so close, you could not only yell at the players, you could pretty much reach out and touch them. When we did "the Stomp", it would sound like the whole building was going to come down (which, uh, might be why they were in such a hurry to get into CHA).

CHA has never been quite that loud (on the plus side, though, there pretty much isn't a bad seat in the place). When CHA first opened, the students were right there behind the teams. I'm really not sure when that changed. I think it was SA that brought the students back down to the floor and behind the baskets.


Anyway, the current state of Iowa basketball cannot be attributed to just one person. A bunch of different people have had their parts in it. The question at this point isn't really "who to blame", it is "who can fix it"?

 

[loesshillshawk]

Let me be the thousandth person to say that the anti and pro Lickliter stuff is mind numbing at best... Apologies for the long post (speaking of mind numbing). But the state of my beloved Iowa BBall program is at or near an all time low. But why? Is it Lickliter? Alford? Mr. Davis? Barta? Bowlsby? Bump Elliot? Let's take a look...
Lute built something special when he took over from Dick Schultz in the late seventies... who knows what would have happened had Ronnie Lester not re-injured his knee.
Carver opened in 1983 replacing the raucous Fieldhouse with the more sterile environment of Carver. Nice facility with nice people that attend, but is it a selling point to today's recruits?
Raveling took over from Lute in 1984 and brought in some incredible recruits, but couldn't coach them. If he would have stayed, Iowa might have been put on probation or at least 3/4 of the team suspended from the stories I have heard (had the internet and today's media attention been around then). He finished with a 54-36 record at Iowa finishing no better than 5th in conference.
Mr. Davis took over in 1987 and had some great years with Ravelings recruits. Once Ravelings recruits left starting with the 1990 season, Iowa basketball returned to mediocrity. Yes Mr. Davis had some nice teams that finished in the top 5 in conference (and many others that didn't) and made it to the second round of the NCAAs, but Mr. Davis's teams only finished the Big Ten schedule with less than 7 losses only once after 1990. We ran Mr. Davis off because this was not good enough.
So we bring in Alford in 2000. Iowa basketball falls further after he came in with big expectations. My understanding was that he was promised upgrades in the facilities as our facilities 10 years ago are terrible. What happened to the upgrades he was promised? He doesn't get them, he drives the Iowa basketball program further into the ground, and is a *** about it on his way out. Yes, he had a decent season in 2006, but with a very veteran team made up of native Iowans as the leaders.
Alford burns every last bridge as he leaves and we bring in Lickliter. Is this mess Lick's fault? His "system" does not seem to be working and is boring. Others say the can't recruit... but what does he have to sell? We are in year 3, and new facilities have just begun construction. Iowa's success isn't so recent and not much of a bball history before that. We have not won a BT title since we shared one in 1979, went to a final four in 1980, and had success in 1950s. We don't have a history sending kids to the NBA save Ravelings recruits and a couple others here or there. This success is all before today's recruits were even born! Although I love the location, I can see why recruits not from Iowa are not psyched to come to IC.
IMHO, our troubles go deeper than the coach, and it starts with the facilities and this falls on the shoulders of Elliot, Bowlsby, and Barta for not getting the BBall facilities upgraded sooner and keeping the momentum of the 80's going. If we bring in a new coach now, does this drastically change anything? IMO, no. This is one reason Lickliter got a 7 yr. contract. Barta knew it would take a couple of years to get the facilities going... So let's see what Lickliter can do in the next couple of years. The last recruiting class seems to be an upgrade, next year's recruiting class will be crucial for him. If he can't get it done then, I think not only will Lick be gone but so will Barta.

He only has one ride available...he might as well pack it up. Barring defections which will cook his goose anyway.

 

[azhawkphan]

Just a few comments...

For the OP:

Tom Davis took his teams to post-season tournaments 11 of the 13 seasons he was here. One of the 2 times he did no go to a tourny was 1990, his last year that he had GR recruits. The 1991 season, his first year will nothing but his own recruits, he won 21 games.

Iowa has put 74 players into the NBA (52 drafted, 22 non-drafted) in the 62 years that the NBA has existed. Our last player drafted was in 1999 (JR Koch). That is an average of about 1.2 players/year. I would say that is a bit more than just GR's players and a "couple of others".

We have needed the facilities for years. Tom Davis was promised new practice facilities when he came in 1986. I'm not entirely certain (it's a bit before my time), but I believe that Lute had asked for them in the early 1980's.


For others:

The Fieldhouse was LOUD. You were so close, you could not only yell at the players, you could pretty much reach out and touch them. When we did "the Stomp", it would sound like the whole building was going to come down (which, uh, might be why they were in such a hurry to get into CHA).

CHA has never been quite that loud (on the plus side, though, there pretty much isn't a bad seat in the place). When CHA first opened, the students were right there behind the teams. I'm really not sure when that changed. I think it was SA that brought the students back down to the floor and behind the baskets.


Anyway, the current state of Iowa basketball cannot be attributed to just one person. A bunch of different people have had their parts in it. The question at this point isn't really "who to blame", it is "who can fix it"?

Good questions... I guess it goes back to the question of success. It is unquestionable that Iowa fell back in the 90s after some success in the 80s, and Alford was brought in to take us to the next level (wish we new which direction, but hindsight is 20/20). So lets take a look (source: statsheet.com)

80s: 1 Final Four, 1 Elite 8, 2 Sweet Sixteens, 2 2nd Round Exits, 3 First Round Exits, 0 NIT, 8 years Top 5 in BT (straight up, no T5s)

90s:
1 Sweet Sixteen, 5 Second Round Exits, 2 NIT Berths, 5 years Top 5 in BT (straight up, no T5s), only 1 year with less that 7 losses in BT
Yes we had multiple 20 win seasons, but our 1990s BT record (85-73) is fairly mediocre (see non conf schedule for 20 win seasons). Which goes back to the definition of success. Most would take this success today, but this is why Mr. Davis was shown the door in 1999.

Onto the NBA players (Draft limited to 2 rounds in 1987):
Starting with 1980s: 3 1st Round draft picks which were Ronnie Lester (hurt, could have been special), Roy Marble (lifestyle, did not make it), and B.J (made it). Outside of the 1st Round players that stuck... Bobby Hansen, Kevin Gamble, Matt Bullard (FA), and Brad Lohaus. Raveling had 8 players drafted. 19 players total drafted, but only 7 of those would have been drafted in today's 2 round system, and 9 of those 19 were Rounds 5 or later.
Onto the 1990s: 2 1st round draft picks: Acie Earl (marginal success) and Ricky Davis (made a good career). 6 players total drafted. Ricky Davis, and Ryan Bowen made good careers for themselves. I will throw Reggie Evans (FA in early 2000s) in here for the purpose of noting he has had some success in the NBA. I would say that most of today's non-Iowa native recruits have no idea who these people are save Ricky Davis and Reggie Evans (yes, I would bet most do not know who Ryan Bowen is). In the era of the 2 round draft we have 11 players drafted in about 23 years and 1 player drafted in the last 10 years. I don't think this sets us apart from anyone on a national level or is something I would want to sell to recruits.

Facilities: Carver opened in 1983. I would like to know why Mr. Davis or Alford didn't get upgraded facilities as well. Which goes with my point... We enjoyed success in basketball in the 80s, but the 90s showed a decline (same with football program for that matter: success in 80s, decline in 90s. The football program has gone one direction while the basketball program the other in the 2000s).
Was Bump asleep at the wheel before he retired in 1990, was Bowlsby in over his head, was it the coaches, economy, whatever? Don't know, don't care at this point. But what I do know is that our basketball problems go much deeper and further back than our current head coach/AD. Hopefully Lick can get the players he needs soon to run his "system" in a more exciting/winning fashion (I believe he has at least 2 more years barring mass player exodus again), otherwise next coach in to see if he can turn this mess around.

 

[HawKCP]

This guy does.