smitharooney
Well-Known Member
Have you seen our roster?
Iowa Basketball Announces 5-Man, '20 Recruiting Class
- Thread starter RobHowe
- Start date
Yea he could have done all those things. But all those things also means the same thing. That he couldn't get it done on the recruiting trail up to that point. Not to mention he can still take another one if he wants too.
Like I said, I would feel different if he saved spots for them because he was watching them this whole time and had a good feeling they would end up offer worthy. But that's not the case. We both know the only reason these kids got offers is because he had trouble getting enough kids on board. That doesn't mean he's not really happy right now because he "knows" he got a couple steals. It just means he failed this year to sign the class he wanted, which means he did a bad job this year. He might get bailed out due to a couple legacies that came on late. But that's not sustainable, winning recruiting. He needs to start landing the guys he wants.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
You’re speculating but you don’t know any better than anyone else.
When they committed Sibley, Foster, and Ogundele were still all uncommitted. Would there have been an issue with a Ulis, Perkins, and Ogundele class? That’s three guys, that’s plenty. That’s also the amount of players most thought we would have taken in this class. Maybe hit the transfer market or look at some late cycle options.
So maybe he saw the Murray’s and said holy crap I need to get these guys before their prep season starts and they start getting other looks. I’m not saying that’s true but it’s certainly possible. Again there is no reason why we NEEDED to take the murrays. We have what 3 seniors (if Jbo doesn’t redshirt)? We aren’t in need of warm bodies.
I’m just not buying this narrative.
I was looking at it from the perspective that if you take the gimme games and then look at the won lost record it probably would be around or maybe under fifty percent won loss. It would work out basically the same for the football team. I do admit its harder recruiting at Iowa, but after five years it is a large enough sample to know what the expected results will probably be. Its hard to imagine Iowa couldn't find a coach with better results. There are a lot of coaches that would love to coach and receive the money the University is paying them.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
My point is that making the dance a few times and getting beaten by round two is the ceiling with these type of classes.
I have no say in taking a certain type of player, that’s on this staff and we have over a decade of results to see it’s not good enough to have any shot in the Big10 or advance to a sweet 16 +
BILLYBOBSTEXAS
Well-Known Member
Frans recruiting is sub par. I think most of us would agree. After reading these comments, due to recruiting, carver, the state itself, the Hawks are doomed to a bottom half of the conference every year.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
But then of course there is this stat:Frans recruiting is sub par. I think most of us would agree. After reading these comments, due to recruiting, carver, the state itself, the Hawks are doomed to a bottom half of the conference every year.
“Fran McCaffery has guided Iowa to 20 wins or more in five of the last seven seasons and upper division finishes in the Big Ten six of the last seven seasons. Only Michigan State (7) has more first division finishes than Iowa (6) and Wisconsin (6) since the 2013 season.”
That comes from the game notes for Thursday's game. Again I want better recruiting and better on court performance, but we need to mix in the occasional dose of reality.
Frans recruiting is sub par. I think most of us would agree. After reading these comments, due to recruiting, carver, the state itself, the Hawks are doomed to a bottom half of the conference every year.
Doomed to the bottom half? They've finished there once I'm the last seven years.
The 3 kids you mention have nothing to do with it. I'm not sure what you think I'm saying but your responses don't make sense in regards to what I'm trying to say (and possibly failing miserably at).
I'll try again. This class is a fail in regards to Fran going out and landing the kids he wanted. It was miss after miss after miss to the point where new names popped up late in the process who no one else wanted, and that's who we got. Now Fran might have gotten lucky and found late bloomers and diamonds in the rough, but how he got there isn't sustainable for successful recruiting. You have to land the kids you originally want sometimes.
This year he landed 0 kids he was in on early. Last year he landed 0 kids (he signed his son and a late find). The year before he landed 1 (an in state fan). The year before he landed 2 (and his son). The year before he landed 2 (Cook and Pemsl). That means in 5 years, he's won 5 recruiting battles for guys he identified early and wanted. In the last 3 years he has had one who was a huge fan. In the last 2 years he hasn't landed any.
Finding kids that can play late is also a skill (one I think he's decent at). But there's no sugar coating how bad he's been (especially lately) at signing the kids he really wants.
BILLYBOBSTEXAS
Well-Known Member
I did say, "after reading these comments". You may have missed that.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
You’re now moving the goalposts. I was specifically talking about the Murray’s and your comment about them and how Fran gets zero credit if they turn out. We did not NEED to take 5 players in this class, heck I think a lot of people were shocked about that wondering how the scholarships would work out.
The point being in regards to the Murray’s Fran is sticking his neck out on the line. It’s the very reason people are bitching about this class because they unranked and have no high major offers. So in my book he absolutely gets credit if those kids turn out.
In regards to the rest of what you said, yes for the most part I agree, he’s whiffed on his top priority’s. He tried to go after big time talent and he can’t really close the deal. Heck I was the one saying this class was heading for failure a couple months ago. It doesn’t look pretty, but I think with what we return next year we don’t need much for instant impact guys. If 2021 goes as poorly as 2020, then Iowa basketball is in big big trouble.
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Oops.
BILLYBOBSTEXAS
Well-Known Member
No problem! Maybe I should have used an "eye roll" instead of a "frown".
BILLYBOBSTEXAS
Well-Known Member
Or both!
I'm not moving goalposts, I'm trying to better articulate what I meant the whole time. The twins turning out to be good doesn't matter "as it pertains to the can Fran recruit argument". Reconizing legacy kids (who you've been watching for years) grew and improved a lot, isn't exactly an awesome feat. What is an awesome feat is signing guys like Cook who has a lot of options, or signing guys like White who are clearly really good but for whatever reason no one else wants. They clearly can't all be like those 2. All I'm saying is he is getting those recruiting wins less and less lately.
And you keep saying he didnt have to sign them, he could have banked the scholarships. The only time you bank scholarships is when you can't find anyone worth filling them or you need them for really good players the next year. If he would have banked those, it would have also been an indictment on his ability to find players and land them.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Okay I understand your thought process I just hate the double edge sword. We knock Fran taking the risk to bring in “warm bodies” that are unranked and don’t have other offers, but yet if they turn out well they were legacies he got lucky on. I don’t think that’s reality in terms of how recruiting works.
Again we wouldn’t really be banking scholarships, so I guess I disagree with that as well. We have 3 graduating seniors (if Jbo plays all year), and we would have brought in three new players (without the murrays). That seems about right. So three freshman and maybe a transfer of some nature after the year. Heck I’ve often argued that 5 person classes were too much.
I guess I’ve said my piece, I understand your view I just don’t agree with it in regards to the murrays. I do think this recruiting class is a failure until proven otherwise.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Yep, and they actually made the NIT 8 years ago when they finished in the bottom half.... but to be honest, I think most of Fran's classes leading up to this have been better... at least on paper. .... either way none of them were considered top half of the conference and he routinely places there. Fran's an above average coach who performs above his skis nearly every season. I can't really be convinced otherwise then that considering his pay, his recruiting ranks, national and local expectations etc....he typically does better then all that stuff. Doesn't mean I am satisfied or that I don't want more. I do....and I straight up won't be part of bottom half finishes on the reg.
Making the dance isn't that hard anymore. Advancing still is. I would like to see more of that....but bottom line, just make it more years then not and Iowa is already playing with house money. If Iowa was paying their coach like a program that cared about winning and Fran was getting these results, I would probably be more peeved. Fran is woefully underpaid for the results he's accomplished. Most people forget or don't realize that.
I just think there are two things that make a good recruiter. One is finding talent. The other is convincing them to pick you. Fran didn't do either of those with the twins. Does he deserve credit for letting them come here if they turn out good? Absolutely. I just don't think it's the kind of credit that earns good will in the "good recruiter" category. (As far as fan discussion goes).
Making the dance is hard. You have to finish in the top half of the conference to have a chance basically. Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue, Maryland, Wisconsin, and Indiana make 7 damn good programs. We have to finish above at least one to make it. That's far from easy, and 7th place probably misses at least half the time.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
You hung on that in all of what I said so I'll oblige. It definitely doesn't seem that hard lately for a P5 school to make it. The past several years the committee has leaned towards P5 schools more times then not for the last few at larges. Every year as of late we hear about how soft the bubble is. Be above .500 in league play and odds are good you're in the dance. So that means win half your games. That shouldn't be hard. That doesn't seem hard. That seems like a low bar to make the NCAA to me.
Now, if you wanna say "it's hard for Iowa to make the NCAA because of several reasons" ....I'd entertain that. But to me, it seems like if a school wants to dedicate themselves to making it by investing in coaching and facility .... it shouldn't be that hard. That bar is not that high.
