Iowa and Iowa State

L

longtimer

Well-Known Member
I think most on the board would agree that the Iowa program has been stuck in a long stretch of for lack of a better term mediocrity. Had some decent teams and some very good players (mostly sons of former players) without a lot of success in the tournament. Enthusiasm or lack thereof seems to be turning into apathy. Showing up with smaller crowds and even lack of posting on this board. So how does Iowa inject enthusiasm back into the program
Most posters don't see it as a coaching change. Some say we just don't support the NIL

On the other hand how does Iowa State do it? Great fan support even in a down year. Of course Hilton is way more conducive to watching basketball. Are their fans just better? Is our fan base getting to old? Of course there is no dispute that they have had a lot more success on the court. A number of championships and pretty good success in the tournament. 3 years ago they were way down. Bring in a new coach and he recruits a bunch of players that take them to the sweet 16 the next year. This year could be special

How do they do what we seem to not be able to do?? Can't believe its the NIL Is it just tradition? Iowa has money Iowa is in the Big Ten Iowa seems to have some advantages HOW do you explain it?
 
Shoving Coach Tom Davis out was the first mistake. His 1999 team was the last Sweet 16 team at Iowa. It led to Alfraud killing the program.... and then Lackluster burying it. Then came along Fran.....a rebuilder of programs....rebuilt Iowa to make it competitive again.....but has not achieved any serious, big time, success in the NCAAs at any program he has coached....including Iowa.....14 years and running....you also have the issue with his son's struggling on the court tied in with all the nepotism issues at Iowa.

I think fan apathy, an older/richer fan base that has been given priority seating at Carver for decades......Carver not having a student section close to the court like at Michigan St......games being played on a million different channels........sometimes in the middle of the week late at night in the dead of winter.....the women's program actually being a championship caliber program with a Jordan Esqu player in Clark.....and again Fran has not done anything great in 14 years aside from digging the program out of the ground. Some nice things like several NCAA appearences with a few first round wins and a BTT tournament title.

I think the Big Ten is also just a tough conference. You need to have guards and strong center play to do well in it.....as well as for the NCAAs. Iowa has not been good enough in these areas....especially guard play. Fran has not been able to seal the deal with impactful, difference making guard play.

I think ClownU and their coaches have not been afraid to go after more impactful players at numerous positions from the portal and transfers. Of course, I don't follow ISU nearly as closely as Iowa. They seem to consistently love their basketball there.....more than just jacking off to their Superbowl game with Iowa in terms of football.

This is why I was kinda of hoping Fran was maybe going to move on....thinking maybe he would retire and watch his last son (since he is not coming here) or go coach at another school....perhaps back East. Again, you can't fire him, his body of work does not call for that....and you don't want another CoachDrTom like situation on your hands. That said, he still has a lot of money left on his contract....and an adminstration he is in no danger with or having serious heat.....so he is probably pretty comfortable riding it out.

I thought maybe if Fran moved on....the progam is in decent enough shape....we could get renewed fan interest with new blood....and perhaps a coach that would put more effort into coaching defense and maybe could seal the deal on better guard play. But, that is not going to happen. So, all we can do is wish Fran well and hope for the best.

I think Iowa Men's Basketball is just boring and has been irrelevant in the NCAAs for far to long. Either that, or......fans have been burnt time and time again when they have tried to invest into it.....even with Fran's best teams (including players like Garza, the Murray Twins, White, Marble, Jared U, JaBo, Woodbury, etc). Pure Apathy.

Watching the Iowa Women has been an absolute joy. Watching the men can be a chore at times.
 
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HaydenHawk56 said:
Shoving CoachDr Tom Davis out was the first mistake. His 1999 team was the last Sweet 16 team at Iowa. It led to Alfraud killing the program.... and then Lackluster burying it. Then came along Fran.....a rebuilder of programs....rebuilt Iowa to make it competitive again.....but has not achieved any serious, big time, success in the NCAAs at any program he has coached....including Iowa.....14 years and running....you also have the issue with his son's struggling on the court tied in with all the nepotism issues at Iowa.

I think fan apathy, an older/richer fan base that has been given priority seating at Carver for decades......Carver not having a student section close to the court like at Michigan St......games being played on a million different channels........sometimes in the middle of the week late at night in the dead of winter.....the women's program actually being a championship caliber program with a Jordan Esqu player in Clark.....and again Fran has not done anything great in 14 years aside from digging the program out of the ground. Some nice things like several NCAA appearences with a few first round wins and a BTT tournament title.

I think the Big Ten is also just a tough conference. You need to have guards and strong center play to do well in it.....as well as for the NCAAs. Iowa has not been good enough in these areas....especially guard play. Fran has not been able to seal the deal with impactful, difference making guard play.

I think ClownU and their coaches have not been afraid to go after more impactful players at numerous positions from the portal and transfers. Of course, I don't follow ISU nearly as closely as Iowa. They seem to consistently love their basketball there.....more than just jacking off to their Superbowl game with Iowa in terms of football.

This is why I was kinda of hoping Fran was maybe going to move on....thinking maybe he would retire and watch his last son (since he is not coming here) or go coach at another school....perhaps back East. Again, you can't fire him, his body of work does not call for that....and you don't want another CoachDrTom like situation on your hands. That said, he still has a lot of money left on his contract....and an adminstration he is in no danger with or having serious heat.....so he is probably pretty comfortable riding it out.

I thought maybe if Fran moved on....the progam is in decent enough shape....we could get renewed fan interest with new blood....and perhaps a coach that would put more effort into coaching defense and maybe could seal the deal on better guard play. But, that is not going to happen. So, all we can do is wish Fran well and hope for the best.

I think Iowa Men's Basketball is just boring and has been irrelevant in the NCAAs for far to long. Either that, or......fans have been burnt time and time again when they have tried to invest into it.....even with Fran's best teams (including players like Garza, the Murray Twins, White, Marble, Jared U, JaBo, Woodbury, etc). Pure Apathy.

Watching the Iowa Women has been an absolute joy. Watching the men can be a chore at times.
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We are two years removed from one of the best 3 year runs in Iowa history. People keep thinking Fran has hit his ceiling here but he keeps moving it up. It was absolutely horrible luck that during Garza's junior and senior year a tournament got cancelled once and the big 10 was stacked with two 1 seeds in the tournament once. Fran put together a team good enough to win the conference finally and it just happened to line up with a year like that. Very unfortunate.

Now I think he's got his best point guard ever on the roster and a center that can compete with Garza as the best all around center Fran has had. (Garza's defense is the only way I can say that)

If Dix and Sandfort are both still here next year and one of the freshmen are good enough to steal a starting spot, I really think the next 3 years can be better than the good run we had 3 years ago.
 
PCHawk said:
We are two years removed from one of the best 3 year runs in Iowa history. People keep thinking Fran has hit his ceiling here but he keeps moving it up. It was absolutely horrible luck that during Garza's junior and senior year a tournament got cancelled once and the big 10 was stacked with two 1 seeds in the tournament once. Fran put together a team good enough to win the conference finally and it just happened to line up with a year like that. Very unfortunate.

Now I think he's got his best point guard ever on the roster and a center that can compete with Garza as the best all around center Fran has had. (Garza's defense is the only way I can say that)

If Dix and Sandfort are both still here next year and one of the freshmen are good enough to steal a starting spot, I really think the next 3 years can be better than the good run we had 3 years ago.
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Ya....I also think Fran got really unlucky with the Covid situation....both where the tournament was cancelled.....and when their 2nd round opponent got to advance without playing in the first round because of Covid (wasn't that Oregon who spanked us?)

Perkins....for the most part....has had a fine year at point guard. But, I still don't think he is the difference maker we need. If he sticks around another year, maybe he can be. Freeman has potential, but he needs to learn how not to get into foul trouble. Someone who can drill defense would help him out here. Again, we see if he also sticks around.

We also see if Dix and Sandfort sticks around. Rumor about Dix leaving and Sandfort testing the NBA waters.

Technically they are still not completely finished yet from making the NCAAs so we will see if they get there and have a shot to get into the 2nd weekend.

He just has to find a way to get the monkey off his back. It would help with trust points from the fan base.
 
This Iowa State thing is a head scratcher. Cow town USA. Doesn’t work for them with football does it?
 
HaydenHawk56 said:
Ya....I also think Fran got really unlucky with the Covid situation....both where the tournament was cancelled.....and when their 2nd round opponent got to advance without playing in the first round because of Covid (wasn't that Oregon who spanked us?)

Perkins....for the most part....has had a fine year at point guard. But, I still don't think he is the difference maker we need. If he sticks around another year, maybe he can be. Freeman has potential, but he needs to learn how not to get into foul trouble. Someone who can drill defense would help him out here. Again, we see if he also sticks around.

We also see if Dix and Sandfort sticks around. Rumor about Dix leaving and Sandfort testing the NBA waters.

Technically they are still not completely finished yet from making the NCAAs so we will see if they get there and have a shot to get into the 2nd weekend.

He just has to find a way to get the monkey off his back. It would help with trust points from the fan base.
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I was talking about Harding at point guard. He was our best player in the first half and Fran barely played him in the second. Once it's his team and he feels comfortable shooting, our offense is going to be impossible to stop. Freeman has to be averaging damn near a bucket per minute when they're on the floor together. The way Sanfort and Dix both shoot 3s and cut to the basket it's going to be a nightmare for defenses.
 
PCHawk said:
I was talking about Harding at point guard. He was our best player in the first half and Fran barely played him in the second. Once it's his team and he feels comfortable shooting, our offense is going to be impossible to stop. Freeman has to be averaging damn near a bucket per minute when they're on the floor together. The way Sanfort and Dix both shoot 3s and cut to the basket it's going to be a nightmare for defenses.
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Gotta play more defense, rebound better, and protect the paint better. More offense isn't the answer. Then we lose 95-90 to Oregon or 95-91 to Illinois instead of 95-80 and 95-85. Maybe 87-68 to both Gonzaga and Villanova is closer but it is time to bring the defense and rebounding up not double down on shooting.

Think the fans want more Garza style players. Bigs that work hard down low. Some more offensive boards. More help for Owen than a Patrick floating around the outside or Krikke has been.

Imagine if this year we had a a couple of good strong guys who could bang and rebound and clean up inside and develop a few moves. Instead of Mulvey apparently a 6"10" and Patrick but more like Nunge.
HaydenHawk56 said:
I think the Big Ten is also just a tough conference. You need to have guards and strong center play to do well in it.....as well as for the NCAAs. Iowa has not been good enough in these areas....especially guard play. Fran has not been able to seal the deal with impactful, difference making guard play.

I thought maybe if Fran moved on....the progam is in decent enough shape....we could get renewed fan interest with new blood....and perhaps a coach that would put more effort into coaching defense and maybe could seal the deal on better guard play. But, that is not going to happen. So, all we can do is wish Fran well and hope for the best.

I think Iowa Men's Basketball is just boring and has been irrelevant in the NCAAs for far to long. Either that, or......fans have been burnt time and time again when they have tried to invest into it.....even with Fran's best teams (including players like Garza, the Murray Twins, White, Marble, Jared U, JaBo, Woodbury, etc). Pure Apathy.

Watching the Iowa Women has been an absolute joy. Watching the men can be a chore at times.
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The last six years is a decent sample size. The team is 50-46 to end the seasons again 16 games each season as a good sample size so not just a 5 or 6 game stretch. That one four game BTT run is all that separates from being .500. Great run. Where was this I thought. The center was playing more of a part. They punched Purdue and all of them in the mouth. Fran with the best subbing I had seen and quicker adjustments and no getting red and flustered. Wow! Then that mostly disappeared against Richmond. That hurt. I can see many fans throwing in the towel after that. That was their shot.

Think a few too many letdowns, an okay record that goes down to losing in close games and against the better competition, and teams being too offense heavy and light in the defense and rebounding are gonna lead to some apathy. If you have 3 key areas of play and you continue to do only one really well then you are certainly within you right to think the results will continue to stay where they are and you get apathy.

For Fran to get the monkey off his back or he is gonna have to do some different things. Both reaching the potential and getting the fans back. Instead of the doing the same things and the Eastern illinois games and giving Michigan it's only BT road win this year and those losses that shouldn't be will become wins and the 19-14 team wins 20+, this years team wins 20 or 21 games and gets in. They will get to a sweet sixteen. Get those "woulda shoulda" games. Fans have more faith and belief and more serious interest.



























































































































































































































































HaydenHawk56 said:
nough in these areas....especially guard play. Fran has not been able to seal the deal with impactful, difference making guard play.
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HaydenHawk56 said:
I thought maybe if Fran moved on....the progam is in decent enough shape....we could get renewed fan interest with new blood....and perhaps a coach that would put more effort into coaching defense and maybe could seal the deal on better guard play. But, that is not going to happen. So, all we can do is wish Fran well and hope for the best.

I think Iowa Men's Basketball is just boring and has been irrelevant in the NCAAs for far to long. Either that, or......fans have been burnt time and time again when they have tried to invest into it.....even with Fran's best teams (including players like Garza, the Murray Twins, White, Marble, Jared U, JaBo, Woodbury, etc). Pure Apathy.

Watching the Iowa Women has been an absolute joy. Watching the men can be a chore at times.
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Iowa State has 3 Sweet 16's in the last 10 years with 3 different coaches, the commitment to winning is in it's infrastructure. Meaning, it's less about the coach if you have fans, the tradition and compitent leadership that is focused on winning.

If you want Iowa to care about basketball, you need people to care about Iowa basketball. Iowa currently has it's all time winningest basketball coach and no one gives a shit about it. If Iowa hires a "defensive" guy I can't wait for the complaints about not having shooters who can score. Cause when you take focus from one place, you lose something somewhere else. If Iowa put all it's efforts and focus on Basketball, you'll be cheering for your 5-6 win Iowa Hawkeye football team most years, but hey, we're making 3 Sweet 16s in the 10 years so all good.
 
PCHawk said:
I was talking about Harding at point guard. He was our best player in the first half and Fran barely played him in the second. Once it's his team and he feels comfortable shooting, our offense is going to be impossible to stop. Freeman has to be averaging damn near a bucket per minute when they're on the floor together. The way Sanfort and Dix both shoot 3s and cut to the basket it's going to be a nightmare for defenses.
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IC....even Harding....I'm not convinced. Needs to shoot way better....but he is only a freshman.
 
Here's my take. My biggest issue is the defensive side of the ball. This team cannot convince me that they can consistently make stops or that under Fran's system there is an emphasis on the defensive side of the ball. So when we get to March and the NCAA tourney I find it hard to really get excited and really buy in to us making a run, because I simply don't believe we play a defense capable of doing so.

It's March Madness so every year I'm always excited we've made it, but the problem is deep down I'm not 100% on board because I've been let down so many times in the past. I'm not saying it's time for Fran to go, because it's not my call to make and I see both sides of the argument, but until something changes internally and see a change in the composition of the roster and the style of play I simply don't see the writing on the wall that anything will really change in terms of making a run. I'm simply not one of those people that get overly excited by making the tournament anymore because I'm far from optimistic that we have the type of team that can make a run.

That said I can't wait for the women's tourney!!!
 
There are multiple explanations for the declining interest. If you have been following men's college basketball you know that there is a lot of criticism of it.

Some of the blame for declined interest is the turnover in the rosters. The transfers impact development programs and mid majors negatively. I'll lump Iowa in as development program. The past team members moving to the NBA is evidence. Another related issue that will come to a conclusion are the players that red shirted, and were given a covid year. There is a total physical mismatch when freshmen and sophomores go against men four years older than them. I've commented more than once that Iowa's player lack strength and experience. It really stood out early when they played ISU and Creighton. Those two early losses dampened expectations followed by a terrible start to the conference season really caused a drop in interest.

I've noticed a major difference between the men's game and the women's game that impacts play. The ability to dunk the ball in men's basketball isn't realistic in women's basketball. Once upon a time the men's game didn't allow dunking. While it is popular it also changed the strategy. A lot of games between teams relying only on points in the paint are unwatchable. ISU is winning, but as far as offense goes it isn't exciting for me. The Big XII has a lot of brute ball teams. There are some women's teams that are physical, but at least they have to have earn point not in the paint to be successful.

I've never been a huge critic of Fran and when I have it usually about line-ups on the floor that make no sense. However, there are critics because of his personality and outburst. They just don't like him and it has nothing to do with basketball. Looking back at coaches as far back as Ralph Miller I can't recall Iowa fans and occasionally fans being turned off by the coach's personality. Even with Lickliter it was his inability to coach in the Big Ten. I believe Conner and Patrick were worthy players, but some fans felt he played them to much, so there is that as well.

The question to ask is "Would a coaching change make a difference?". I really don't think so. In the new Big Ten Iowa at least has a current coach with a degree of success to navigate it. Fran is retirement age and I think he will know when it is time to retire. It will be helpful for him to guide Iowa over the next two years.
 
PCHawk said:
I was talking about Harding at point guard. He was our best player in the first half and Fran barely played him in the second. Once it's his team and he feels comfortable shooting, our offense is going to be impossible to stop. Freeman has to be averaging damn near a bucket per minute when they're on the floor together. The way Sanfort and Dix both shoot 3s and cut to the basket it's going to be a nightmare for defenses.
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I agree with you on the future. All along, my biggest "Wins" for this season:
#1) Make damn sure Freeman and Harding stick around.
-- Harding should've been handed the keys long ago and let him and Tony carve up defenses. Deal with the growing pains in what was basically a low-expectation / rebuild year from the get-go.
-- Sorta torn on if I want Perk to stick around. Might be too little ball to share if he does and would rather look forward than cling to the status quo. Then again, he stays (Bowen leaves) and do what should've been done this year (Harding + Perk)

#2) Addition x Subtraction regarding Dix over McCaffrey. I'll even add Dembele, as far as athleticism.
-- Hate hearing chatter that Josh might leave. He's the purest shooter, cutter, and all-around guy Hawks have. Absolutely need him to stay + Peyton.

#2.5) Krikke was serviceable and held his own. Feel he faded quite a bit down the stretch as he just isn't big or athletic enough for Big10. Add him (+ Patrick) to the "Thanks for your services, guys." Make room for more Owen + Koch + Dembele. (That said - GLARING weakness next year is lack of bigs, which means, more perimeter / shooting reliance.)
 
STILLBUSTER said:
I agree with you on the future. All along, my biggest "Wins" for this season:
#1) Make damn sure Freeman and Harding stick around.
-- Harding should've been handed the keys long ago and let him and Tony carve up defenses. Deal with the growing pains in what was basically a low-expectation / rebuild year from the get-go.
-- Sorta torn on if I want Perk to stick around. Might be too little ball to share if he does and would rather look forward than cling to the status quo. Then again, he stays (Bowen leaves) and do what should've been done this year (Harding + Perk)

#2) Addition x Subtraction regarding Dix over McCaffrey. I'll even add Dembele, as far as athleticism.
-- Hate hearing chatter that Josh might leave. He's the purest shooter, cutter, and all-around guy Hawks have. Absolutely need him to stay + Peyton.

#2.5) Krikke was serviceable and held his own. Feel he faded quite a bit down the stretch as he just isn't big or athletic enough for Big10. Add him (+ Patrick) to the "Thanks for your services, guys." Make room for more Owen + Koch + Dembele. (That said - GLARING weakness next year is lack of bigs, which means, more perimeter / shooting reliance.)
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Next year they'll have Mulvey back along with an incoming frosh (Tadjo) who's been lauded for his rebounding, I think they'll be alright.
 
Gander Hawk said:
Next year they'll have Mulvey back along with an incoming frosh (Tadjo) who's been lauded for his rebounding, I think they'll be alright.
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Sorry but not sure what you've seen out of Mulvey to give you that indication that he'll even be in the rotation. I realize he hasn't needed to be called upon and is still developing but I'm not sure what he brings to the team after a few years in the system that a freshman, new to the program, couldn't do.
 
Gander Hawk said:
Next year they'll have Mulvey back along with an incoming frosh (Tadjo) who's been lauded for his rebounding, I think they'll be alright.
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kicker22 said:
Sorry but not sure what you've seen out of Mulvey to give you that indication that he'll even be in the rotation. I realize he hasn't needed to be called upon and is still developing but I'm not sure what he brings to the team after a few years in the system that a freshman, new to the program, couldn't do.
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It will be ABSOLUTELY shocking if Mulvey doesn't immediately announce a transfer at seasons end. I could be reading that wrong, but they didn't red shirt him to keep him and develop him another year as a Jr. That ship has sailed. They RS him so he could retain another year of eligibility, drop down a level and still have 3 years (covid year) to play somewhere else. Iowa desperately needed more post players this year, if Riley was ever going to contribute to this team, THIS was the year. He still couldn't get minutes and the writing was on the wall once the season got rolling. He wasn't in the top 10. Fran and co probably talked him into staying this year because they knew how weak we were at post and at worse, they need him for practice purposes coming into this year. Riley has been a great team mate, but I don't think there's any plan for him as an Iowa Hawkeye contributor.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think I am.
 
InGoodCo said:
It will be ABSOLUTELY shocking if Mulvey doesn't immediately announce a transfer at seasons end. I could be reading that wrong, but they didn't red shirt him to keep him and develop him another year as a Jr. That ship has sailed. They RS him so he could retain another year of eligibility, drop down a level and still have 3 years (covid year) to play somewhere else. Iowa desperately needed more post players this year, if Riley was ever going to contribute to this team, THIS was the year. He still couldn't get minutes and the writing was on the wall once the season got rolling. He wasn't in the top 10. Fran and co probably talked him into staying this year because they knew how weak we were at post and at worse, they need him for practice purposes coming into this year. Riley has been a great team mate, but I don't think there's any plan for him as an Iowa Hawkeye contributor.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think I am.
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I dont think you are wrong
 
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