ShadasRevenge
Well-Known Member
The situation where Stanzi threw that pick, it was 2nd and 11 on the NW 43 yard line. Not quite a punting situation
The end result was the same as a punt. NW got the ball inside their own 20.
Iowa and Conditioning Last Year
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
The end result was the same as a punt. NW got the ball inside their own 20.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Are we going to discuss the play calling?
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
Are we going to discuss the play calling?
the play calling that was rolling through two thirds of the season? Or was that just execution?
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
Not disputing the last part, but I'll continue playing devil's advocate...
Iowa's 3rd down conversion rate was horrible in the first half...that's not in dispute. Then again, NW wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire either. However, as you pointed out, we were 2-7 in the 2nd half. What's interesting is that prior to either of the long NW drives, Iowa had converted 1-2 3rd downs. After the first score Iowa was 0-1 on their next drive on 3rd down, but it wasn't a 3 and out. We did manage to pick up a first down...what hurt more was the fact that 2nd & 3rd down prior to the punt were incomplete passes. Ultimately, the second half stats were skewed by that 15 play, 35 yard debacle of a final drive.
Both teams ran about the same number of plays and had almost the same TOP in the first half, so I'm not sure how much the first half conversion % matters.
Again, just from a devil's advocate perspective...
I will forever look at the NW games as one that the football gods just refused to give Iowa a break,mainly with the weather. It was a weather dominated game. Early on,high winds against the Hawks in the 1st quarter,then 2nd quarter,Hawks get the wind,and a monsoon hits,with a tremendous downpour grounding both teams,but the hawks should have been making hay with the wind at their back. Then 3rd quarter,Hawks have wind without rain...they dominate. Finally,4th quarter,NW has wind,no rain,and they pull out a close game with a huge comeback.
NW got a huge weather break in that game....what nu?
Losing Adam in the MSU game hurt the offense,clearly. Losing Tyler Neilsen was equally large for the defense. Those two positions were our vulnerable spots,and we lose our best at both...same with the guard position. We kept losing guys at the same positions...it caught up with us. I agree that the offense just did not pull their weight late in the year,and that hurt the defense.
NW got a huge weather break in that game....what nu?
Losing Adam in the MSU game hurt the offense,clearly. Losing Tyler Neilsen was equally large for the defense. Those two positions were our vulnerable spots,and we lose our best at both...same with the guard position. We kept losing guys at the same positions...it caught up with us. I agree that the offense just did not pull their weight late in the year,and that hurt the defense.
NorthFloridaHawkeye
Well-Known Member
Besides 2002, the Iowa team is built around defense and special teams. A good defense would never let Indiana, NW, and Minnesota average 20.25 pts/gm.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I find it almost laughable that we are blaming a unit that, with the exception of 2002, has never been relied upon during the Ferentz era to win ballgames.
Now all of a sudden, it's the offense's fault? Please.
The offense was good enough to have the lead either going into the 4th quarter or to take the lead within the 4th quarter in virtually every ballgame we lost. Under Ferentz, that's almost always been an automatic W. Last year, I think we lost as many games while leading going into the 4th or taking the lead in the 4th than we lost in all of his other 11 years COMBINED.
Did our offense have trouble after MSU? Absolutely. But when you depend on a unit to close out teams once we've got the lead, as we had the previous 11 years, and they don't do it.....that's not on the offense, that's on the defense.
Now all of a sudden, it's the offense's fault? Please.
The offense was good enough to have the lead either going into the 4th quarter or to take the lead within the 4th quarter in virtually every ballgame we lost. Under Ferentz, that's almost always been an automatic W. Last year, I think we lost as many games while leading going into the 4th or taking the lead in the 4th than we lost in all of his other 11 years COMBINED.
Did our offense have trouble after MSU? Absolutely. But when you depend on a unit to close out teams once we've got the lead, as we had the previous 11 years, and they don't do it.....that's not on the offense, that's on the defense.
AZHAWKFAN1
Well-Known Member
Look at the Ravens in the NFL. Dominating defense all season but do they win in the playoffs? No, their offense is not good enough. Even the best conditioned atheletes need a rest to get their "wind" back. Hopefully last year was a lesson learned.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I love the fact that we're trying to justify and defend the play of one side of the ball and blame the other for Iowa's end of season skid. My opinion, the offense stunk those games and failed to put the game away and couldn't keep the defense off the field in the second half, and the defense couldn't make the stops when they needed to most. Bottom line was neither offense or defense could compensate for the failures of the other and as a result the "team" lost.
I've never seen stats that show a difference in win/loss columns between the offense, defense, and special teams so regardless who's responsible the other parts didn't step up to get the job done and preserve a win.
I've never seen stats that show a difference in win/loss columns between the offense, defense, and special teams so regardless who's responsible the other parts didn't step up to get the job done and preserve a win.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
nice.
What we should all be opptimistic about is that was an attempt to close the door, go for the throat, nail in the coffin, whatever you want to call it. "putting teams away" with aggressive play is something hawk fans have been calling for, for years. It didn't work out but I like the mindset !
That said, I would honestly say 6-8 more first downs at 2 or 3rd and 6 yards or less, and we are looking at a significantly difference record last year.....AND likely a fresher defense, meaning more stops and likely fewer points given up.
AHHGGGH, I don't want to relive last year(which i unfortunately just did) - let's kick some butt this year !
What we should all be opptimistic about is that was an attempt to close the door, go for the throat, nail in the coffin, whatever you want to call it. "putting teams away" with aggressive play is something hawk fans have been calling for, for years. It didn't work out but I like the mindset !
That said, I would honestly say 6-8 more first downs at 2 or 3rd and 6 yards or less, and we are looking at a significantly difference record last year.....AND likely a fresher defense, meaning more stops and likely fewer points given up.
AHHGGGH, I don't want to relive last year(which i unfortunately just did) - let's kick some butt this year !
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
they were team losses. If you go back and look at the IN, NW, OSU, and MN games (AZ and WI were slightly differennt scenarios), it's easy to say the D blew it cause they were last on the field, didn't stop the 3rd and 4th and longs, got tired, etc.etc. The point folks are trying to make is that regardless of the past success you can NOT go 3 and out, 5 and out, 6 and out over and over again and then say "OK D, save us again.
Goalline stops such as Syracuse and the other defensive plays to save the day over the last few years aren't something you want to rely on. If you look at the stats from 2-3 of our losses last year, it's pretty glaring that the O might be on the hook more than the D for these losses.
In reverse, the same way were oh so close to a much better record last year....we were oh so close to a much worse record in previous years.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
Indiana was capable of scoring points - they, much like us, weren't that far off from having a much better record.
NW - Your defense can be fantastic, and if you keep giving a very, very good QB the ball, math says your gonna struggle
MN - can't argue with this one, just an bomb of a game, call it what you want, just ugly on both sides of the ball.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
Defense was 7th in the country in scoring, that kinda sums it up doesn't it. With just 3-4 more sustained drives of even 1 or 2 more first downs, we likely are a top 5 scoring defense last year.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Honestly...this does sum it up completely and I couldn't agree more. Name one close game where our offense went out and won it outright with great plays down the stretch. Zero...at Arizona, Prater got a fumbled punt, and Binns a pick six. Wisconsin...clock management and failure to score a touchdown after the late interception...NW...well so many things, Stanzi's interception and he couldn't throw it in the ocean on third down...OSU...no huge scoring drives in the fourth...and Minnesota...this was on both sides, but Stanzi's fumble really hurt in this one...Coker's too.
It's a team game, but if you were to point to the difference between the first 7 games and the last six...I say the offense struggles were far more costly.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
I think that there were legit reasons why the O bogged down in the latter portion of the season.
- In addition to Jon's remark about 2 RGs being injured ... Boffeli was also injured and, from what I have heard, Ferentz was playing dinged. That means that we weren't only playing 2 undersized guys on the interior ... but even one of them was dinged! Furthermore, with our top blocking RB injured and/or not himself ... that made things that much harder on Stanzi.
- The latter portion of the season is when it becomes that much more important for an O to be able to lean on its running game. The injuries to the O-linemen and ARob not only hurt the passing game ... but they dealt our running game and play-calling ability a pretty significant blow.
- Jon's golden boy, DJK, returned to being a distraction in the latter portion of the season ... quite apart from his more mature play earlier in the season. I guess once he became Iowa's all-time leader in a few areas, he figured he had a license to goof off more.
- Iowa's O still relies upon being able to get into a groove. It's hard to get into such a groove if the D continues to give up long drives. Folks can say what they will about the problems of having a D on the field all the time in the 1st half .... however, I'd urge those same people to recall the '08 PSU game. If the D has the FIRE and the ABILITY ... then they CAN do it.
- In addition to Jon's remark about 2 RGs being injured ... Boffeli was also injured and, from what I have heard, Ferentz was playing dinged. That means that we weren't only playing 2 undersized guys on the interior ... but even one of them was dinged! Furthermore, with our top blocking RB injured and/or not himself ... that made things that much harder on Stanzi.
- The latter portion of the season is when it becomes that much more important for an O to be able to lean on its running game. The injuries to the O-linemen and ARob not only hurt the passing game ... but they dealt our running game and play-calling ability a pretty significant blow.
- Jon's golden boy, DJK, returned to being a distraction in the latter portion of the season ... quite apart from his more mature play earlier in the season. I guess once he became Iowa's all-time leader in a few areas, he figured he had a license to goof off more.
- Iowa's O still relies upon being able to get into a groove. It's hard to get into such a groove if the D continues to give up long drives. Folks can say what they will about the problems of having a D on the field all the time in the 1st half .... however, I'd urge those same people to recall the '08 PSU game. If the D has the FIRE and the ABILITY ... then they CAN do it.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
I'm confused by the comment, "it's hard to get into such a groove if the D continues to give up long drives." Against Indiana, NW, and OSU the D got plenty of stops in the first three quarters...and our offense did little or nothing with them. Against NW, the D got a turnover around mid-field and Stanzi immediately through a pick...then came the two long drives. Oh, and what happened after the first NW long drive? Our O promptly gave them the ball back as they couldn't do anything with it putting the D right back on the field. Second, Persa played out of his mind on those two drives...contrary to popular belief...the D didn't play that bad...they just ran into a QB who was in the zone. In those situations, the offense needed to help them out and keep the ball and get a few first downs. As usual they couldn't.
Our offense, other than running game, was terrible in the second half of the Insight Bowl. How can you blame the offensive line and injuries there? We were playing with the 3rd string RG, yet we ran the ball very effectively. Why weren't we scoring at will? Why, because our passing game was terrible...and Stanzi at one time in the second half was 4-11 with two interceptions, and those were just horrible throws. This was the same story over the course of the last 4 games.
The defense had to win the Insight Bowl with a pick six. Our offense wasn't going to win that game.
I'm not saying this was the same defense as the 2009 Orange Bowl Champs...but they were solid and no one (ugggh, except Minnesota) ran the ball on them. We didn't win those last four because we didn't score points when we had the opportunity. Putting NW down three scores, OSU down two, and Minnesota down two, changes those games and I think we win them.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
WinOneThisCentury -
The statement about getting into a groove wasn't a stand-alone statement. It was only a contributing factor ... not a determining one.
Also, the Hawks won as a TEAM against Missouri ... not just the D, not just the O ... but as a TEAM. The O was playing with a pretty depleted group ... and yet they still moved the ball almost every time they touched it (even though they didn't score every time). Similarly, the D forced Mizzou to EARN every point that they scored.
Of course, Stanzi threw some picks that he shouldn't have ... however, in his defense, he was trying to make plays. Similarly, while the D was tackling pretty well and forcing Mizzou to earn their points .... they still gave up an awful lot of yards.
In the end, the victory was a team effort ... and I'm proud of them ALL.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
I understand where you are coming from exactly with the "getting the groove comment"...I just think it's hard for fans to sometimes look at their team, and in particular, individual players, and say, "he just didn't play well". I think it's hard for people to say that about Stanzi and I get that. The guy was so clutch in 2009 and made plays at critical times and he build a deserved reputation as a gamer. He also cut way down on turnovers. I just don't think he was very good down the stretch of games last year and in particular in the second half of those games. He had that "play not to lose" look and it showed.
I get the offense was depleted, but you could also say the defense was depleted just as easily. Neilsen, Davis, Tarp, etc. You have to play and perform with what you got. I know Stanzi was under pressure alot in those last four games, but in watching the film again, there were several situations where he just didn't throw the ball well when he had time. The Insight Bowl being one them. He short armed a few throws in a big way and they had nothing on them. For some reason he wasn't letting it go.
A QB can make a mediocre team good (Northwestern--look what happened to them when Persa went down) and the QB can make a great team simply good if he can't make plays when they are needed. I know it's not exactly that simple, but I think you get the concept.
Was Stanzi great down the stretch? in the second half of those losses? Watch the games again and let me know if I'm off base.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
WinOneThisCentury -
I'd advise you to rewatch the tOSU and Minny games. I'll agree that Stanzi wasn't "lights out" ... however, his WRs dropped some balls too.
Also, at the time during the season I was much more critical about Stanzi's play at the end of the season. However, that was also before I thought more about the status of his blockers. I had attributed it more to him just not playing well in cold weather ... however, I now believe that that is only part of the story.
I'd advise you to rewatch the tOSU and Minny games. I'll agree that Stanzi wasn't "lights out" ... however, his WRs dropped some balls too.
Also, at the time during the season I was much more critical about Stanzi's play at the end of the season. However, that was also before I thought more about the status of his blockers. I had attributed it more to him just not playing well in cold weather ... however, I now believe that that is only part of the story.