Initial thoughts on Michigan Beatdown of Iowa

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
How quickly the tides can turn in this conference. One consistent remains for our team....they still can't win the big one on the big stage and getting over that hump to the next level. I thought Michigan would win by 25 or so tonight....I was not to far off.

But, worse than the loss tonight was losing Nunge and Connor. Before this game, I would say Iowa was looking Elite 8/Sweet 16ish.

Without Nunge (I'm guessing Connor will be back) now I'm thinking Sweet 16 is looking like the ceiling again. Not because Nunge is the savior of this team....but he gives rest minutes for Garza. Depth takes a big blow there.

Ulis and Joe T looked challenged. Not sure if this is game time regression because they have not got enough game rep minutes throughout the year.

Joe W continues his disappearing act like David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty disappear on the big stage.

Iowa continues to look slow against the Elite teams they would need to beat to be Elite 8 or better team.

For the first time this year (maybe 2nd), I thought Garza looked quite mortal. A bigger fish made him look like a little one.

Ohio St probably won't be much better....so hope to win out on home games and see where the chips fall in the BTT and NCAAs.
 
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Ian Pike Hammer

Well-Known Member
Wagner is really, really good. Future pro, for sure.

I'm crushed for Nunge. That did not look good at all. What a turd sandwich that young man has been served over the last few months.

Connor I think can be back quickly. He is very tough and that didn't give the appearance of being a really bad twist.

Gonna have to find some guard play next season. Toussaint, Ulis, and Perkins have all shown flashes, but none of the 3 have grabbed the bull by the horns either, that's for sure. Still time, but my concern level is rising on that front.

Keegan is going to end up being a great Hawk. Played well again tonight.

CJ was Mr Reliable yet again tonight. He will be invaluable next year as a steadying influence.

Tough, tough loss. Big stage, quality opponent, depressingly large loss margin, AND multiple injuries. Ouch. I want a do-over, but I bet not as badly as the players do.

OSU be tough but I don't think they are quite at the UM level and, luckily, the scoreboard resets to 0-0 at the beginning of every new game. We've got a chance.
Nunge's career is looking like Pemsil's, one injury after another.
CJ, Nunge, and Keegan Murray would have been our go-to scorers next year but now Nunge? Kris Better develop drastically over the off-season, 'cause I don't Ogundele is gonna be ready, maybe the tall McCaffery. Sandfort will be here to hopefully be a scorer.
I think Uhlis and Perkins will be ok, given more experience.
No, not a tough, tough loss, this was an UGLY, UGLY loss. No shame in losing to the #3 ranked team, on the road, but by 187 points, national tv, March Madness just around the corner, ouch! The rest of the country prolly sayin', "Same old Iowa" can't win the big one! We got abused tonight. Line was Mich by 5.5 points.
 

Ian Pike Hammer

Well-Known Member
How quickly the tides can turn in this conference. One consistent remains for our team....they still can't win the big one on the big stage and getting over that hump to the next level. I thought Michigan would win by 25 or so tonight....I was not to far off.

But, worse than the loss tonight was losing Nunge and Connor. Before this game, I would say Iowa was looking Elite 8/Sweet 16ish.

Without Nunge (I'm guessing Connor will be back) now I'm thinking Sweet 16 is looking like the ceiling again. Not because Nunge is the savior of this team....but he gives rest minutes for Garza. Depth takes a big blow there.

Ulis and Joe T looked challenged. Not sure if this is game time regression because they have not got enough game rep minutes throughout the year.

Joe W continues his disappearing act like David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty disappear on the big stage.

Iowa continues to look slow against the Elite teams they would need to beat to be Elite 8 or better team.

For the first time this year (maybe 2nd), I thought Garza looked quite mortal. A bigger fish made him look like a little one.

Ohio St probably won't be much better....so hope to win out on home games and see where the chips fall in the BTT and NCAAs.
Looks like Joe T is pressing, feeling the pressure of Uhlis and Perkins climbing the ladder behind him.
 

HawkeyeDug

Well-Known Member
Will be hurting for bigs next year if Nunge tore an ACL again. Doubt Ogundele is going to be ready. He and Nunge are the only returning bigs. Keenan is the next closest but he is more of a 3 than even a 4. Maybe Luka will decide he wants to keep playing college ball.
 

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
How quickly the tides can turn in this conference. One consistent remains for our team....they still can't win the big one on the big stage and getting over that hump to the next level. I thought Michigan would win by 25 or so tonight....I was not to far off.

But, worse than the loss tonight was losing Nunge and Connor. Before this game, I would say Iowa was looking Elite 8/Sweet 16ish.

Without Nunge (I'm guessing Connor will be back) now I'm thinking Sweet 16 is looking like the ceiling again. Not because Nunge is the savior of this team....but he gives rest minutes for Garza. Depth takes a big blow there.

Ulis and Joe T looked challenged. Not sure if this is game time regression because they have not got enough game rep minutes throughout the year.

Joe W continues his disappearing act like David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty disappear on the big stage.

Iowa continues to look slow against the Elite teams they would need to beat to be Elite 8 or better team.

For the first time this year (maybe 2nd), I thought Garza looked quite mortal. A bigger fish made him look like a little one.

Ohio St probably won't be much better....so hope to win out on home games and see where the chips fall in the BTT and NCAAs.
Could be worse. We could all be Minnesota fans. This can't be looking good for Pitino.
 

chucktownhawk

Well-Known Member
Here's my thought. Michigan is damn good, quick, determined. Iowa is also damn good, but not quick, and no killer mentality when on the road. We have the POY, but not even Superman could've beat Michigan last night. We regroup, assess, take the pacifier out and remove the bib, and fucking come out swinging against The Ohio State, and get a W
 

ihawk425

Active Member
Yes Michigan is the elite of the Big Ten Iowa does not even look like they are in the same zip code. I am sure Garza and Joe W will make some nice money in the NBA (probably Europe) but wow playing a team like Michigan in which they will encounter this caliber of player or better every night in the pros they got some work to do. Anybody up for a little game of "over/under"? The topic is Garza vertical jump. I see allot of gravity following him around on the court.
 

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
Dumbest post I’ve ever seen you make.
So first Huck and now you...come on guys. I get we are all frustrated from the loss last night but let's be real. Dickerson outplayed Garza last night, I seen him beating him physically and got Garza to take bad shots. If you think I'm wrong, ok, how about telling me why I'm wrong instead of making these dumb replies?
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
I made the comment in other posts regarding Michigan that what separates them from good teams is how well they defend. Even when the game was close they defended at a much higher level then we did. Sure we have a good offense, but were going to see teams with good defenses in the tourney and when the game is on the line those good defenses seem to take it to a higher level. Ours doesn't.

I keep hearing about how Iowa not being able to win the big one on a national stage. IMO it's because what are considered the "big ones" are against the teams that are considered to be truly elite and simply nowhere near that level. We're a good team, but definitely not elite.
 

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
I think Iowa matches up fine with Michigan with non-Big 10 refs. Tourney refs would not allow that sort of contact in the post. Iowa is a finesse team.

Its not the refs though. We lost. They were consistent in what they would allow, which was a lot of contact. Iowa could not adjust.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
I love Weezy as a Hawkeye. He’s a true lifetime Hawk since he was born and he will be one of the best players at his position when all is said and done.

But anyone who thinks this kid would play pro ball after his junior year do not understand basketball beyond the NCAA. At all. He wouldn’t even play Euro league right now and there are dorks on here who have suggested he’s NBA material.

Hell, Garza is even highly questionable in terms of the NBA. Wieskamp???
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
I love Weezy as a Hawkeye. He’s a true lifetime Hawk since he was born and he will be one of the best players at his position when all is said and done.

But anyone who thinks this kid would play pro ball after his junior year do not understand basketball beyond the NCAA. At all. He wouldn’t even play Euro league right now and there are dorks on here who have suggested he’s NBA material.

Hell, Garza is even highly questionable in terms of the NBA. Wieskamp???
He's not NBA level. He's not. He can shoot well when open and can get hot sure. But he isn't great at going to the hole. He doesn't have a good enough handle. Turns it over quite a bit. And look how he did against Wagner. He can't guard him. Not even a little bit. Wagner is a NBA talent but not superstar talent. How would JW do against some of the really good and great 2 and 3s in the NBA if he can't hold his own against Wagner? I can understand why Cook left to an extent but if JW leaves early that would probably be a mistake for him.
 

Luftgekuehlt67

Well-Known Member
He's not NBA level. He's not. He can shoot well when open and can get hot sure. But he isn't great at going to the hole. He doesn't have a good enough handle. Turns it over quite a bit. And look how he did against Wagner. He can't guard him. Not even a little bit. Wagner is a NBA talent but not superstar talent. How would JW do against some of the really good and great 2 and 3s in the NBA if he can't hold his own against Wagner? I can understand why Cook left to an extent but if JW leaves early that would probably be a mistake for him.
I think Garza and Wieskamp are both very long shots for the NBA. Both are great college players, but I don't see either of their games working out at the next level.

The problem is, the proverbial "clock" in the NBA ticks loud and fast in terms of how much time they give you to demonstrate your upside before they'd rather start over with a 19 yr old one and done kid. You can find exceptions to this (and I'd wager it's *slightly* more forgiving for big men than guards), but if you're coming into the league with 3+ yrs of college ball under your belt, there is a lot of pressure to be a turnkey performer. A 22-23 yr old "project" with a likely ceiling of being an off the bench role guy? NBA GMs have the luxury of just going out and grabbing the next 19 year old who might be making All Star games by age 22-23.

Obviously, I'm generalizing - you can find special circumstances that run counter to what I'm saying, but there's no doubt the prevailing winds blow as I've just described. This is why even fringe/long shot guys like Wieskamp feel that pressure to go ASAP.

One of my favorite Nuggets is Monte Morris (don't shoot me, pls), he's a great example. 4 year college player, stepped into the league and played from day 1 like a seasoned vet. It's stopped now because he's a known performer but in that first season it was an endless stream of "wow, he was a 4 year college guy but he's this good?!?" commentary. At his age, it was do-or-die for Monte. Monte, in addition to having a savant-level hoops IQ (ast/tov ratio is always off the charts), can shoot it, drive it situationally, and defend...and that gets him 15-20 min/night off the bench.

I think Wieskamp would need something like a summer league performance where he shows himself to be absolutely unconscious from 3 AND get lucky to be matched up with someone favorable on the defensive end to give teams at least a glimmer of "maybe" that he can at least be passable on the defensive end.

Garza's a trickier eval I think just because he's such a throwback. As an NBA GM, I think I'm more likely to take a flyer on Luka just because, relative to Joe, I'm really not sure what's going to happen when I put him out there in summer league but I'd kinda like to find out (for future reference, if nothing else). I see a lot of comps between Garza and Jokic. On a level, I can see why people go there - you're trying to make a case for a big guy who lacks the athleticism to be a rim protector. Conventional wisdom says, in the modern NBA, if they're going to play a traditional big guy, teams demand that big guy be a rim protector. Garza can't do that, but what about Jokic, right? Well, I've seen every game of Jokic's career. Like many NBA players, he's a freak of nature. He can bang in the post with super soft hands to keep the ball alive in those sloppy close-in situations. Hey, that's Garza! Both guys can also step out and shoot it. I have a very strong suspicion that, if Jokic had played college ball, he could have done damage at the 40%+ level from 3, but I can't prove that so let's just leave that alone. Things are looking good so far. Garza is a good enough (and willing enough) passer to extricate himself from low percentage looks. That's great and an unheralded part of our success as an offense this year. Yeah, well, Jokic thinks he's the second coming of Magic Friggin' Johnson. I'm 100% certain, if the Nuggets didn't count on Jokic to do ~25 pts/night, he could do something in the neighborhood of 12-15 apg. Oh, and Jokic is like a 80%+ FT guy, so you don't need to even think about situationally subbing. Oh, and due to his super high basketball IQ and ability to see what guys are going to do before they even know what they're going to do, he makes all kinds of plays (especially steals) on the defensive end that, given his general lack of athleticism, would surprise you.

To make a case for Luka, I would need to see, at summer league, a lot of NBA caliber talent looking like they don't know what to do against a guy with traditional big man skills (which is what we've seen over and over again in the college game). My fear would be, at the NBA level, the overall athleticism is such that Garza's finesse + brute strength combo are not enough...but I'd be willing to find out for sure. If he proves he can score in the post at this level, then I'm willing to take a slightly closer look to see what kind of 3P% shooter he is and what his ceiling is a defender with the right coaching.
 

Seth53

Well-Known Member
Wagner stole Weezy’s lunch money in this game . If anyone has questions if Weezy can make it to the next level those same questions were answered tonight .
And...what type of role-player Garza will be in the NBA.

If a freshman can push him around, imagine the NBA where everyone is built.

Just sayn.
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
But he did.....this was one of Garza's worse games (maybe his worse) all season. Efficiency wise, the 7 footer for Michigan outplayed him.
You may want to look at the stats for the MI post player before you talk about him “schooling” Garza. Did Garza have a bad game? Yeah, probably. I just find it interesting that his inside shooting game declines when he gets mugged on nearly every possession. Watch the game.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
You may want to look at the stats for the MI post player before you talk about him “schooling” Garza. Did Garza have a bad game? Yeah, probably. I just find it interesting that his inside shooting game declines when he gets mugged on nearly every possession. Watch the game.
I think he had a lot of trouble with his size.....but Garza has shown he can do it against big teams (see North Carolina). It also seemed like Garza was playing with cement shoes.
 

cohawkeye

Well-Known Member
I did rewatch the game and Garzas inside skills and or athletic ability or should I say lack of them are glowing.
I counted at least 8 missed shots mostly layups from inside 2 feet. Missing most shots with his lack of foot speed and mobility allowed him to be dominated by bigger players same as what would happen at the pro level. This is just reality, we love the guy, but he has a long road ahead if he wants to play after this year. Regarding Joe his lack of dee is glaring but if he could reinvent himself like a Kyle Korver there may be an outside shot, also 70% at the line doesn't cut it at the next level...........at all...
 
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