Indiana's initial 2 scores: An amateur breakdown

H

homerHAWKeye777

Well-Known Member
I was curious about Iowa's D ... particularly breaking down what they were doing wrong against Indiana during those first 2 long scoring drives that they gave up.

Here's a short-hand of what I saw. Notationally if you see something like D2P5 ... that refers to the 5th play of the 2nd drive (D=drive, P=play). Anyhow, this is what I saw:

D1P1: Alvis off=sides
D1P3: missed tackling opportunity by Prater (rather minor ... he at least forces the play to his help)
D1P4: Donatell fails to set the edge (play doesn't get driven to his help)
D1P8: [3rd down conversion] Kirksey overcommits leaving the cutback wide open. He doesn't keep the blocker square ... thereby leading him to get shielded from the play.
D1P11: [3rd down conversion] Kirksey appears to be a bit too shallow with his pass drop ... leaving the zone in the center of the field too big
D1P13: Alvis fails to set edge and he whiffs on the tackle to boot
D1P14: Donatell doesn't flow quickly enough to the guy entering his zone [TD reception]

D2P1: Alvis and Morris fail to tackle ball-carrier ... and, even worse, they don't drive the guy to their help either
D2P5: Binns and Prater fail to force play to their help. Additionally, Prater is guilty of a facemask penalty
D2P7: An issue away from the ball ... Gaglione gets blown away from the gap where the dive was going
D2P8: [3rd down conversion] Morris gets beat off the line ... and gets caught a step behind the pass-catcher as a result. Also, Alvis gets blown off of LOS ... thereby preventing him from maintaining contain as the pocket is rolled right at him.
D2P10: Gaglione doesn't finish play
D2P11: Forgy gets sucked inside and, to make matters worse, Morris whiffs on a blitz [leads to a good gain on 2nd and 18 on a play that should have resulted in a LOSS]
D2P12: [3rd down conversion] Morris gets off block too slowly, and consequently fails to adequately fill
 
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Thanks Homer. So in summary, we are young and still making a lot of mistakes. Getting out of position is something that can and will be fixed, it's the missed tackles that bother me the most. One of the things I've loved about Iowa football in recent history is their ability to tackle. I'm sure this will also come with more experience and work with Doyle.
 
The bottom line is unless there is massive improvement or some unforeseen position change/recruiting help resulting in better d-line and linebacker play we are going to be hurting really bad. This year dline is like watching somebody die from a Civil War gunshot wound, slow and painful. Next years D will be so bad it will be like watching somebody get shot in the face with a cannon. We won't have to worry about 3rd down defense next year because we won't ever force third down.
 
Yep.

Pretty much what I saw and commented on during the game. Realize now that it could have been construed as bashing our players. But it really was just identifying what was going wrong and how it really did appear to be the back end of the front 7 that was having the most consistent difficulty.

It was really more of this the whole game. However, I didn't see the same thing from Alston, which is what got me excited about his play.
 
urohawk said:
The bottom line is unless there is massive improvement or some unforeseen position change/recruiting help resulting in better d-line and linebacker play we are going to be hurting really bad. This year dline is like watching somebody die from a Civil War gunshot wound, slow and painful. Next years D will be so bad it will be like watching somebody get shot in the face with a cannon. We won't have to worry about 3rd down defense next year because we won't ever force third down.
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Huh? Nah ... that's not the conclusion I would draw at all!

Frankly, most of the issues, as I see them are mostly due to "injuries" and/or inexperience. Almost all of the issues are quite correctable.

Having seen Morris healthy last year and with more consistent blocking in front of him ... he's capable of flowing to the ball really quickly ... and running with fast guys. I'd attribute him getting beat in coverage largely due to his ankle.

Donatell is the only guys who I really see getting a bit more "overwhelmed" ... however, to his credit, he's still playing tough and with a good attitude. You gotta still play with the deck you're dealt ... and right now we're so dinged at LB that we had to play with the personnel we had.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
Huh? Nah ... that's not the conclusion I would draw at all!

Frankly, most of the issues, as I see them are mostly due to "injuries" and/or inexperience. Almost all of the issues are quite correctable.

Having seen Morris healthy last year and with more consistent blocking in front of him ... he's capable of flowing to the ball really quickly ... and running with fast guys. I'd attribute him getting beat in coverage largely due to his ankle.

Donatell is the only guys who I really see getting a bit more "overwhelmed" ... however, to his credit, he's still playing tough and with a good attitude. You gotta still play with the deck you're dealt ... and right now we're so dinged at LB that we had to play with the personnel we had.
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Frankly, I stopped worrying about Donatell on his almost-pick in the end zone. The kid has skills, he just doesn't have experience. I think a couple more games will really show improvement from him.
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
Frankly, I stopped worrying about Donatell on his almost-pick in the end zone. The kid has skills, he just doesn't have experience. I think a couple more games will really show improvement from him.
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I agree that Donatell has some skills. The issue is that we also like to have our OLB be able to set the edge and play fairly close to the LOS. To that end, the dude has to regularly face pretty big blockers ... and hold his ground. Thus, usually we like our LEO to be one of our bigger LBs. However, if you look at Donatell ... he's basically the size of a safety.

Thus, I primarily see him overwhelmed when it comes to his responsibility of holding the edge and funneling everything to the ILBs. However, when healthy, I'm willing to bet that Nielsen is faster than him ... and thus I'm also more comfortable with a healthy Nielsen in coverage too.

But you're right ... the more experience Donatell sees ... the better he'll likely get.
 
Alston made the play on the almost INT. Donatell almost made the play. Basically, Alston locked on in coverage, didn't interfere, made a play on the ball and gift wrapped the ball for Donatell. Donatell's almost pick overshadowed that play because of the replay and such, but Alston's play is the one on which people should focus. Seriously one of the best plays I have seen from an Iowa backer in a while.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
I agree that Donatell has some skills. The issue is that we also like to have our OLB be able to set the edge and play fairly close to the LOS. To that end, the dude has to regularly face pretty big blockers ... and hold his ground. Thus, usually we like our LEO to be one of our bigger LBs. However, if you look at Donatell ... he's basically the size of a safety.

Thus, I primarily see him overwhelmed when it comes to his responsibility of holding the edge and funneling everything to the ILBs. However, when healthy, I'm willing to bet that Nielsen is faster than him ... and thus I'm also more comfortable with a healthy Nielsen in coverage too.

But you're right ... the more experience Donatell sees ... the better he'll likely get.
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because donatell is a safety - he switched LB out of need.
 
CAARHawk said:
Alston made the play on the almost INT. Donatell almost made the play. Basically, Alston locked on in coverage, didn't interfere, made a play on the ball and gift wrapped the ball for Donatell. Donatell's almost pick overshadowed that play because of the replay and such, but Alston's play is the one on which people should focus. Seriously one of the best plays I have seen from an Iowa backer in a while.
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Thought it was Kirksey. Have to go back and see if you're right. If so all the more reason to let him play the Mike and move Morris to Olb where he belongs.
 
DJL said:
Thanks Homer. So in summary, we are young and still making a lot of mistakes. Getting out of position is something that can and will be fixed, it's the missed tackles that bother me the most. One of the things I've loved about Iowa football in recent history is their ability to tackle. I'm sure this will also come with more experience and work with Doyle.
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Yeah ... that's a lot of it. However, I think that another part of it has to do with the fact that Morris was playing injured .... and we were down Hitchens and Nielsen.

When Morris is healthy ... he's usually not trailing so much in coverage. Similarly, while Donatell is doing the best he can all things considered .... a healthy Nielsen makes it much harder for opposing Os to attack us on the edges. Part of the reason why folks have been attacking the edges against us a bit more than usual is because Nielsen has either been out or slowed due to his foot injury.
 
Indiana is just an incredible team, year in year out. I'm surprised they don't win more than one big ten game per year with the amazing offense they have. Just a solid, solid football team.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
Huh? Nah ... that's not the conclusion I would draw at all!

Frankly, most of the issues, as I see them are mostly due to "injuries" and/or inexperience. Almost all of the issues are quite correctable.

Having seen Morris healthy last year and with more consistent blocking in front of him ... he's capable of flowing to the ball really quickly ... and running with fast guys. I'd attribute him getting beat in coverage largely due to his ankle.

Donatell is the only guys who I really see getting a bit more "overwhelmed" ... however, to his credit, he's still playing tough and with a good attitude. You gotta still play with the deck you're dealt ... and right now we're so dinged at LB that we had to play with the personnel we had.
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I disagree about most of our issues being due to injury and inexperience. I think unless Morris has been hurt all the year the main issue is that everybody on this board and coaches have overestimated his ability. At this point he is not a good tackler and doesn't seem to have a knack to shed a blocker and make a play. He may grow into this but I don't see it right now.

Our dline is just not big or talented enough and that will be worse next year. The only chance I see is if Cooper and Melvin Spears are somehow huge difference makers next year and DT and DE respectively. Considering neither will have experience I think that is a very small chance. Everybody else on our roster we have seen and is nowhere near being an impact player.

Finally our scheme is rarily using kirksey in the blitz which him more than any other player has shown some talent for disguising it and making a play when he gets there.
 
As Bsteen pointed out in a thread the other day there are lot of junior and seniors in the Iowa D two deep. This notion of the Iowa D being young is not accurate. Miller,Alvis and Kirksey get a pass, you could make the argument Donatell is probably playing out of position, but that is about it. To me it looks like a strength/talent issue.
 
makes you wonder if the off season conditioning issues had some impact. We lack one "solid" Dline force, to soften and direct the play calling, there by making the jobs of the LBs easier.
 
urohawk said:
I disagree about most of our issues being due to injury and inexperience. I think unless Morris has been hurt all the year the main issue is that everybody on this board and coaches have overestimated his ability. At this point he is not a good tackler and doesn't seem to have a knack to shed a blocker and make a play. He may grow into this but I don't see it right now.
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Dude ... all of a sudden have you just forgotten the '10 season? There are a number of things that can be quickly learned from it.

First off .... Morris easily proved that he could tackle. Not only could he tackle ... but, behind a very good line, he looked great! Is Morris playing great now? Not necessarily ... he's certainly had his issues ... but young players still learn and improve.

Secondly ... the '10 season quickly showed how medicre even an excellent D can look if there are tangible exploitable weaknesses. Specifically, Iowa got hit badly by the injury bug at LB in '10 ... and consequently Iowa's coverage by the LBs was mediocre AT BEST for stretches of the season. During those stretches ... the QB would ALWAYS have the outlet pass open. What we're seeing THIS YEAR is very similar to what we saw last year .... only this year we don't have the benefit of 3 NFL-ready D-linemen as starters. Heck, the situation is even worse this year ... because not only is there a bit of a drop with regard to the talent-level on the DL ... but also the DL has been pretty darn banged up too!


Now here's a news flash for ya. Alvis and Bigach have been getting A TON of quality reps this season. Furthermore, Davis and Gaglione have been getting a lot of quality reps too. Also, Carl Davis was generating a lot of pre-season buzz ... however, he hasn't been healthy enough all season to really give us a good impression of what he brings to the table. In other words, I wouldn't marginalize that young man anytime soon.

I'll agree that a few good recruits in the 2012 recruiting class could certainly give the '12 Hawkeye DL a nice shot in the arm. Heck, as it is, I anticipate that Darian Cooper and Jaleel Johnson will really help solidify the interior of the '12 DL. Furthermore, Alvis has shown flashes ... but he's also made obvious "young-guy" mistakes too. What I don't get is that you don't seem to recognize the fact that Alvis is only a SO ... he still has his best ball ahead of him!

The big question, as I've frequently written about, is that the DE spot opposite Alvis in '12 is currently a big unknown. Apart from Bigach continuing to play inside and out and getting reps at the spot .... I just don't see anybody who's able to play the spot at the level that we'd ideally like. That's not to say that someone won't emerge ... guys like Hardy, McMinn, or Spears might just prove to do just that. Or, alternatively, maybe a guy like Lohn or Ekakatie could nab the spot if they were to become Hawkeyes. I don't know ....

What I will say is that Iowa's situation on D in 2012 isn't nearly as dire as you suggest.
 
I haven't forgotten the 2010 season at all Dude. In fact that is foremost on my mind. That a defense with 4 NFL players still couldn't get the job done with the current scheme.

And yes while we have 4 guys that are currently getting reps on the dline who will be back next year, this is not like 2007 with freshman Ballard and Clayborn. Ganglione just is not big enough. Davis hasn't been healthy for 2 years. Bigach maybe a solid player but he is a junior so it is not like you can expect him to be Mitch King next year. Alvis has some potential but needs to get a lot stronger. As you mentioned there is a huge hole at d-end and there are not any good candidates to fill in next year with Raymon gone.

As far as Morris, I haven't given up on him by any stretch. However, I think he is out of position. I think Alston is a better Mike but I doubt coaches will move him. And if you site poor defensive line play as the main problem for Morris then, as mentioned above, things are just going to get worse next year.

If I were KF and looking at my program, you have to realize that things are not looking good and changes need to be made in recruiting, scheme, coaching and player retention. The defensive line is starting to look like Lickliter basketball.
 
urohawk said:
If I were KF and looking at my program, you have to realize that things are not looking good and changes need to be made in recruiting, scheme, coaching and player retention. The defensive line is starting to look like Lickliter basketball.
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I have no problem with you having a difference of opinion ... but all you're doing is stating opinions without also providing supporting claims to back up your arguments.

If you look at game-film's latest break-down of the DL ... and he's a guy who does such break-downs for teams in the league ... he actually scores out their play ... and the guys didn't score out too bad.

Of course, as CAARHawk and others have mentioned, Ferentz got after the DL pretty good ... and right after he did it ... the level of play picked up. I think that the guys were reminded that while we need them to do their jobs ... that doesn't mean that they can't also make plays. Guys sometimes end up playing a bit too tentatively when they're trying not to make mistakes ... and, as a result, they don't play with the right level of aggression ... and that diminishes their ability to make plays.

If you look at how the DL played against Northwestern ... you quickly realize that the DL has a better upside than you've been suggesting.
 
urohawk said:
As far as Morris, I haven't given up on him by any stretch. However, I think he is out of position. I think Alston is a better Mike but I doubt coaches will move him. And if you site poor defensive line play as the main problem for Morris then, as mentioned above, things are just going to get worse next year.
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Angerer was a guy who arguably was more of a WILL backer too ... and he ended up being a great MIKE. I think that the coaches got smitten by having a MIKE who could really excel in coverage.

I agree that Morris is more of a WILL LB ... but I think that the coaches really liked his football IQ in addition to how he can move in space ... and thought that he could be more like an Angerer-like MIKE. Right now ... I think that it's still too early to tell whether they are right or wrong.

I agree that Alston looks really promising at MIKE too. The coaches clearly like him too ... and he's going to have a great future for us too. Whether that implies that he displaces Morris at MIKE ... I don't know.

My guess is that much of the decision will be dependent on Derby. If Derby really excells at the OLB spot ... and can lock it down ... then we probably would continue to see Morris and Alston wrapped up in a battle at MIKE. Nothing wrong with having depth!

However, if Derby doesn't lock down the OLB spot ... then I truly believe that the coaches will be perfectly happy to move Kirksey over to OLB, Morris over to WILL, and then start Alston at MIKE.

I frankly don't know what situation will play out.
 
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