HeneryHawk
Well-Known Member
1)Russell
2)Abdul-Jabbar
3)Duncan
2)Abdul-Jabbar
3)Duncan
In 'Honor' of Shaq Retiring: Who is all time best center?
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
thejumper5
Well-Known Member
That would be a great ranking if Duncan played center.
V
VintageHawkeye
Guest
Moses Malone.
The Chief.
KAJ.
Wilt.
Teh Dream.
In no specific order.
The Chief.
KAJ.
Wilt.
Teh Dream.
In no specific order.
SayHawkKid
Well-Known Member
PalmettoHawkFan
Well-Known Member
Hard to compare across eras. Wilt would never put up those offensive numbers now, nor would a six-nine Russell be a dominant defensive center, unless he was as mobile and as quick with getting steals as Olajuwon was (who was also six-nine, no matter what he was listed as being).
For a career, I'd take Kareem. Played against tougher centers than Wilt, and in an era when the overall talent of the league was better.
For one season, or maybe a three-season peak, I'd take Bill Walton. Seriously. Walton from 75-77 was as good a center as the league ever saw.
I'll take Hakeem as the best center of the 80s-90s. 100 blocks and 100 steals in the same season, many times. Ties McHale for best footwork in the post, ever. Speed, smarts, a quietly dominant player for a long, long time.
I'll say:
Kareem
Russell
Chamberlain
Olajuwon
Ewing
Parrish
O'Neal
Malone
Robinson
Lanier (sentimental pick)
For a career, I'd take Kareem. Played against tougher centers than Wilt, and in an era when the overall talent of the league was better.
For one season, or maybe a three-season peak, I'd take Bill Walton. Seriously. Walton from 75-77 was as good a center as the league ever saw.
I'll take Hakeem as the best center of the 80s-90s. 100 blocks and 100 steals in the same season, many times. Ties McHale for best footwork in the post, ever. Speed, smarts, a quietly dominant player for a long, long time.
I'll say:
Kareem
Russell
Chamberlain
Olajuwon
Ewing
Parrish
O'Neal
Malone
Robinson
Lanier (sentimental pick)
1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Walton
4. Wilt
5. Olajuwon
Sorry, but I don't think Russell would have been nearly as dominant playing in later era's. Wilt also benefited greatly from the era and competition he played against. They always say you can't compare across eras, but I'm doing it anyway, and I'm saying the talent in the NBA is at an all-time high. Great TEAMS from the 80's/90's may be able to still win a championship today, but overall the talent keeps getting better. Kareem would still dominate based on his skillset and unstoppable sky-hook. Walton in his prime would also still dominate. Wilt was a freak athlete and had the size that he would still be an all-NBA caliber player today, but wouldn't be averaging over 35 ppg, no way.
2. Shaq
3. Walton
4. Wilt
5. Olajuwon
Sorry, but I don't think Russell would have been nearly as dominant playing in later era's. Wilt also benefited greatly from the era and competition he played against. They always say you can't compare across eras, but I'm doing it anyway, and I'm saying the talent in the NBA is at an all-time high. Great TEAMS from the 80's/90's may be able to still win a championship today, but overall the talent keeps getting better. Kareem would still dominate based on his skillset and unstoppable sky-hook. Walton in his prime would also still dominate. Wilt was a freak athlete and had the size that he would still be an all-NBA caliber player today, but wouldn't be averaging over 35 ppg, no way.
Having only been on this earth since 1975, I will postulate my top 5!
Best Centers of All Time:
#1 Wilt Chamberlin (might be most dominant player in basketball history)
#2 Hakeem Olajuwon (titles, all time leader in blocks & #2 most athletic to Wilt)
#3 Shaquille O'Neal (most freakous athlete in NBA since Jordan, but replaced by LeBron)
#4 Bill Russell (11 Titles, 2nd most rebounds in a game ever......but in the same game most ever in single game (Wilt)
#5 Kareem (most dominant college player on dynasty program, most dominant center on dynasty program)
I have to say the line is very thin here though. Great thread!
Best Centers of All Time:
#1 Wilt Chamberlin (might be most dominant player in basketball history)
#2 Hakeem Olajuwon (titles, all time leader in blocks & #2 most athletic to Wilt)
#3 Shaquille O'Neal (most freakous athlete in NBA since Jordan, but replaced by LeBron)
#4 Bill Russell (11 Titles, 2nd most rebounds in a game ever......but in the same game most ever in single game (Wilt)
#5 Kareem (most dominant college player on dynasty program, most dominant center on dynasty program)
I have to say the line is very thin here though. Great thread!
Damn, you beat me to it. In the Blazers championship season, Walton was unbelievable. Great rebounder, solid to great defender, good scorer, and THE BEST passer at the center position I've ever seen.
HawkeyeDug
Well-Known Member
Do you wear goggles with your hairy shoulders hanging out too old man?
I don't wear goggles and am still in my 20's. Though I pretty hairy.
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
If you are going to fairly compare layers from different eras I think you have to physically enhance the players from earlier eras and give them the benifit of modern day diet, strength and conditioning. It was a different game in the 70's.
Doing that My list would go
Kareem
Wilt/Shaq
Walton
Hakeem/Malone/Russell
Robinson/Ewing/Dawkins/Parrish
I know i'm forgetting some but that's how I see it.
Going a step further, without giving any points for to older era players.
College/rookie Lew Alcindor vs Shaquille O'neil despite the physical mismatch of 100 plus pounds, neither one would have a great answer for the other defensively. I think that would have boiled down to who got who into foul trouble. That Sky hook was friggin unstopable.
Doing that My list would go
Kareem
Wilt/Shaq
Walton
Hakeem/Malone/Russell
Robinson/Ewing/Dawkins/Parrish
I know i'm forgetting some but that's how I see it.
Going a step further, without giving any points for to older era players.
College/rookie Lew Alcindor vs Shaquille O'neil despite the physical mismatch of 100 plus pounds, neither one would have a great answer for the other defensively. I think that would have boiled down to who got who into foul trouble. That Sky hook was friggin unstopable.
cibula11
Well-Known Member
I agree that Wilt is above Kareem. Kareem had plenty of talent around him.
Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem
SirJamaLot
Well-Known Member
Different era's
50's Mikan dominant big slow unstoppable post player
60's Russell/Chamberlin, wilt was the better individual talent Russel had better teammates and a better team player, like comparing Magic to LeBron
70's Kareem/Walton, Walton's body let him down, kareem career and longevity is insane
80's Kareem, Malone
90's Hakeem/Shaq
2000:Shaq could not make freethrows, cant be considered the best center!
Russell has the most rings but also had the best teammates, coach and winning organization
50's Mikan dominant big slow unstoppable post player
60's Russell/Chamberlin, wilt was the better individual talent Russel had better teammates and a better team player, like comparing Magic to LeBron
70's Kareem/Walton, Walton's body let him down, kareem career and longevity is insane
80's Kareem, Malone
90's Hakeem/Shaq
2000:Shaq could not make freethrows, cant be considered the best center!
Russell has the most rings but also had the best teammates, coach and winning organization
NewMexHawk
Well-Known Member
When you talk greatest ever, I think you have compare these guys to today's standards and the skills they had/have.
For instance, I would include "Big Red Walton." Had he not had bad knees he would have truly great. Even with bad knees he was terrific. Without the bad knees, Walton would have no trouble playing today.
Russell and Chamberlain came on the scene when there were not any other players who could challenge them. They challenged each other. No one could stop Chamberlain because he was a freak of his times and Russell was close to the same.
When Jabbar played there were many more centers/forwards in the league who could challenge him, and other teams. I would say then that Jabbar was the best center because of the competition.
Had Shaq played in 60s or 70s, NO one could have stopped him. He would have dominated nearly every game like Chamberlain and Russell did. He would have dunked all night simply because there would have been NO one to guard him. He was still a dominant player today but he never scored 60 or 80 points regularly like Chamberlain. Had he played back then we would have scored at will...like Chamberlain.
Kind of the same situation as someone like Bubba Smith. When he played college fb he was basically the prototype of lineman almost 30 years later. He was a monster when he played because he was SO much bigger than other linemen. Would he have been as great if he played today when there are guys just as big as him on the opposing line?
Kind of the same analogy with Chamberlain and Russell. These guys were freaks for their time. The basketball world had never seen players like that.
I ask the question, "Would they be able to do today what they did then given the size of players today?" Jabbar and Walton would have no problem playing today because of their incredible skills. They didn't just stand in the paint and dunk or make layups on drives. Both Jabbar and Walton had nice jump shots; Jabbar also had the sky hook, which would still be very effective today. Chamberlain had no jump shot, almost everything was layups and dunks. Shaq also has no jump shot, sky hook, whatever. Almost all of his shots are dunks or layups.
That is why I would label Jabbar as the best, Walton as second best (IF he had good knees), then Chamberlain and Russell.
If you say, you can't compare generations then yes Chamberlain was the most dominant center ever simply because he was a freak of his times. There simply was no one who could guard him (except Russell). When was the last time you saw centers with more than 30 rebounds a game...consistently. There just was simply no one that could keep him out. Even with Shaqs incredible size, he didn't do anything like that and that was simply because of better players on the floor. He COULDN't dominate like Chamberlain or Russell because there were better players to challenge him.
How would chamberlain do today with a multitude of other good 6'10 to 7 footers. Could he do today what he did then? Doubtful. Would Jabbar be as good today as he was then...probably. And without the bad knees, I think Walton would be great today.
For instance, I would include "Big Red Walton." Had he not had bad knees he would have truly great. Even with bad knees he was terrific. Without the bad knees, Walton would have no trouble playing today.
Russell and Chamberlain came on the scene when there were not any other players who could challenge them. They challenged each other. No one could stop Chamberlain because he was a freak of his times and Russell was close to the same.
When Jabbar played there were many more centers/forwards in the league who could challenge him, and other teams. I would say then that Jabbar was the best center because of the competition.
Had Shaq played in 60s or 70s, NO one could have stopped him. He would have dominated nearly every game like Chamberlain and Russell did. He would have dunked all night simply because there would have been NO one to guard him. He was still a dominant player today but he never scored 60 or 80 points regularly like Chamberlain. Had he played back then we would have scored at will...like Chamberlain.
Kind of the same situation as someone like Bubba Smith. When he played college fb he was basically the prototype of lineman almost 30 years later. He was a monster when he played because he was SO much bigger than other linemen. Would he have been as great if he played today when there are guys just as big as him on the opposing line?
Kind of the same analogy with Chamberlain and Russell. These guys were freaks for their time. The basketball world had never seen players like that.
I ask the question, "Would they be able to do today what they did then given the size of players today?" Jabbar and Walton would have no problem playing today because of their incredible skills. They didn't just stand in the paint and dunk or make layups on drives. Both Jabbar and Walton had nice jump shots; Jabbar also had the sky hook, which would still be very effective today. Chamberlain had no jump shot, almost everything was layups and dunks. Shaq also has no jump shot, sky hook, whatever. Almost all of his shots are dunks or layups.
That is why I would label Jabbar as the best, Walton as second best (IF he had good knees), then Chamberlain and Russell.
If you say, you can't compare generations then yes Chamberlain was the most dominant center ever simply because he was a freak of his times. There simply was no one who could guard him (except Russell). When was the last time you saw centers with more than 30 rebounds a game...consistently. There just was simply no one that could keep him out. Even with Shaqs incredible size, he didn't do anything like that and that was simply because of better players on the floor. He COULDN't dominate like Chamberlain or Russell because there were better players to challenge him.
How would chamberlain do today with a multitude of other good 6'10 to 7 footers. Could he do today what he did then? Doubtful. Would Jabbar be as good today as he was then...probably. And without the bad knees, I think Walton would be great today.
SirJamaLot
Well-Known Member
EddyP
Well-Known Member
I agree. 100 points in a single game and 20,000 chicks in his career. Two things that will never be duplicated.
PalmettoHawkFan
Well-Known Member
Thread drift:
Decline of the center?
I had a senior this year who I'd coached when he was a frosh (then I stopped coaching). Six nine, six five as a frosh, and I'd worked with him on post moves and understanding how to play with his back to the basket. He never really picked that stuff up, ended up as a jump-shooter who would block some shots in a zone -- during AAU season he'd try to be KG or Dirk, but he didn't have the skills to be any kind of face-up player, so he ended up as a big kid who just wasn't very good. I mentioned watching some McHale video on You Tube to him, and said "you know, kids just don't learn that anymore...a guy who really worked that would be very recruitable." His response: "it's not a big man's game anymore."
WTF?
Down here at least, every tall kid wants to be a face-up player, a huge 3 or face up 4 than developing a post game. So open question -- chicken or egg time.
Why? Because a generation of tall kids skipped college or came out as freshmen and never really developed, so now we have no classic big men in the NBA, so kids who want to be like their heroes want to play like Dirk or KG instead of Jabbar or McHale? AAU coaches (who sometimes become more important than HS ones) trying to groom every big kid into a face-up 4?
Discuss.
Decline of the center?
I had a senior this year who I'd coached when he was a frosh (then I stopped coaching). Six nine, six five as a frosh, and I'd worked with him on post moves and understanding how to play with his back to the basket. He never really picked that stuff up, ended up as a jump-shooter who would block some shots in a zone -- during AAU season he'd try to be KG or Dirk, but he didn't have the skills to be any kind of face-up player, so he ended up as a big kid who just wasn't very good. I mentioned watching some McHale video on You Tube to him, and said "you know, kids just don't learn that anymore...a guy who really worked that would be very recruitable." His response: "it's not a big man's game anymore."
WTF?
Down here at least, every tall kid wants to be a face-up player, a huge 3 or face up 4 than developing a post game. So open question -- chicken or egg time.
Why? Because a generation of tall kids skipped college or came out as freshmen and never really developed, so now we have no classic big men in the NBA, so kids who want to be like their heroes want to play like Dirk or KG instead of Jabbar or McHale? AAU coaches (who sometimes become more important than HS ones) trying to groom every big kid into a face-up 4?
Discuss.
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
Immagine Jabbar and Wilt with todays strength and conditioning programs. Jabbar still long and lean buth with a physique more like David Robinson and Wilt with....well David Robinson's build. Wilt is still a great center and probably still makes the top 5, but no way puts up those insane numbers. Jabbar on the other hand in my humble opinion, with that unblockable sky hook is still the bench mark for all centers to be compared to.
