If Rich Rod loses next week vs Illinois
- Thread starter JonDMiller
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trj
Well-Known Member
I think Michigan wants to get back to more of a "traditional" style of football. If Harbaugh says no, I think guys like Schiano and Edsell have more of a play than you think. I don't know who the mover and shakers are, or how the bureaucracy works behind the scenes, its just a hunch. Also, will a potential opening at Penn St. affect Michigan?
eyekwah
Well-Known Member
It is more than just beating the Buckeyes, Steve. Four and Sixteen in the conference after twenty conference games happens at places like Indiana or Minnesota, not Michigan. Lloyd Carr did not leave the cupboard empty when he retired. He may not have had conference championship talent, but he had at minimum five and three squads.
Nebraska is a close parallel to Michigan. Solich was canned because he wasn't reaching the high expectations. Out goes Solich and in comes Callahan. Callahan changes the offense and Nebraska tanks. Out goes the AD and Callahan and in comes Osborne and Pellini. Nebraska is back to being in the hunt.
The 85 scholarship limit changed college football and made it more difficult to stay constantly at 10 or more wins. Nebraska found out and now Michigan has. I give Penn State credit. They could have reacted the same way, but were smart enough to stay the steady course and have two good prior seasons to this one and they are showing they are getting better as the season moves on. I'm not sure you can say the same for Michigan after this point in the season. The next four games will tell.
Well to be honest, they have done that. Cam Gordan, James Rogers and Quinton Washington have all switched. It just doesn't work that way. Some can and some can't play defense.
To answer your question, probably not. My line of thinking here is that if you were going to make the dramatic scheme change by hiring RR, as fanbase you have to expect it to take time. This much time? No. I agree that it is sad they haven't been better but I also think there have been some things such as Warren, Woolfolk and the rest of what would have been the secondary that have made it difficult. In 07, even if LC were still there, I think 7-5 is their ceiling. They lost a lot off that team. They also didn't have defensive depth at that point. They still don't. Up to this year I gave RR a pass on that but in this year he has to take blame for some of it but once again, some things were out of his control. You can't keep kids from getting injured. Warren was told he was a 3rd round pick and he left. Cissoko couldn't stay out of trouble. That happens. Coaches can't hold players hands in the off-season and once in awhile one doesn't have the drive to be what he needs to. Like I said, next year is it for me. If they don't come to the OSU game with a shot at the Big Ten title, then he needs to hit the road.
I agree but think about this: You will have a National Championship caliber offense with the guys returning. I think most would because a lot of them will be juniors and seniors. You have perhaps the most dangerous player in the game and with a touch more throwing development he could be something no one has seen before. Remember he was known as raw and he's a sophomore. Pat White Redshirted. For him and him a lone, I think you need to hire someone who will use him. I know it sounds stupid but a guy like Harbaugh or Petersen will use his tools and do what needs to be done.
I think, for the most part, I am somewhat in denial. I think RR can get it done given time. The problem is, Michigan doesn't have those patience. When he was hired I said you absolutely have to give him for years because it was so drastic. that's the problem I have. They expected him to turn a team that wasn't going to be that good in 08 anyway into a NC contender in 3 years. It wasn't going to happen. I also hate coach searches. If you go out and don't get Harbaugh which could happen, then maybe you don't even get a top tier coach. Schiano doesn't impress me. Sure, he has had solid teams but he seems to have peaked. UCONN is terrible this year after returning a decent amount of a decent team. Why?
I don't really know what to think with this whole situation. I watch a game and all the defensive mess ups and most of the time it seems to me they are errors made because the guys are so frickin young. You can't start a secondary of underclassmen and expect it to work at all. Now Mike Martin is hurt. That takes a ton of effectiveness out of the front 7. They were average at very best anyway.
I disagree. I think he stays if he wins 7.
The problem is that his defense has been brutal the entire time he's been there and has actually gotten worse since year 1. He's been fortunate to have relatively weak OOC schedules (for Michigan anyway) otherwise he'd have been fired already.
I think his offense will be good next year but this defense has shown zero promise for next year. One things for sure; at some point you have to be able to stop someone from scoring.
Well your last portion of that is two sided. All except one guy in the secondary are RRs guys. So either there isn't anyone compete ting for those spots or he is recruiting better talent. Mike Martin was developed for the most part under RR. So was Mouton. So was Demens, so was Roh. Where are the seniors beating those guys out? If you have Cissoko, Warren and Woolfolk in the secondary, I think it completely changes that defense. Add Turner instead of Freshman doom on the depth chart and that furthers the betterment. There is nothing for experience on the depth chart. If you compare Iowa and Michigans depth chart there is a huge difference in experience. Next year, that defense will be better. Either it will help RR or everyone will think he was indeed the problem when in all actuality it was more likely it was inexperience.
I agree but again, those last two LC classes weren't there. You don't need experience on offense but defensive performance has a strong direct relationship to experience. Those last two classes would be juniors and seniors right now and those guys simply aren't there. Well, there are a few but one went pro, one crushed an ankle, one got booted. Again, there should be more sophomores but I think is pretty ridiculous to think that a bunch of sophomores will carry the defense.
olivecourt
Well-Known Member
But isn't this where coaching comes in? I mean, if Rich Rod's only claim to fame is that he can have a great offense when he gets Pat White or Denard Robinson, then what good is he really? There's a reason why the announcers doing Iowa games always flip out about the whole "Iowa has 17 quarterbacks on their roster" thing... it shows the coaches can actually take players and teach them new skills.
That said, I totally empathize with your position. I was trying to talk myself into the Todd Lickliter era as late as February of last year... sometimes you just have to admit you blew it and move on.
I'm not expecting top ten defenses. There are still no reasons why a Michigan team should have a a defense outside the top 50 in the country for three years in a row and gradually getting worse. I mean you're going to blame being 106th in total defense on inexperience?
trj
Well-Known Member
I get what you are saying.....I think Richrod was the experiment and simply it didn't work. Now I think the mindset is let's be Iowa with more talent.......Let's be Ohio St. and take our chances.
Oh, no, it still shouldn't be where it is. I am not saying it's acceptable. Look at USCs defense though. Those are all highly talented inexperience guys and their secondary has been terrible. Look at the top 5 secondaries. They all pretty damn experienced. Now look at the bottom 5, all inexperienced. I'm not just making up that inexperience=really bad. Maybe part of me, as a fan, is just trying to find some hope for the future. My guess is Robinson is gone by the end of the year. I have no clue who they will try to hire. I think they already fired the right guy.
I think it will be more like what Jom Harbaugh or Chris Petersen can do. Most positions on offense are pretty generic. In this case, most of Michigans RBs could move to a more pro style system. Denard couldn't and I think he is far too talented to let it go wasted. I will almost guarantee the guy who comes in will have him at QB. I know Jim Harbaugh would. My biggest worry is that they fire RR and go for Harbaugh and he declines. There just isn't anyone else that gets me excited.
Mac50702
Well-Known Member
I dont think Harbaugh will decline the posistion, but if he does, neither Petersen nor Patterson will turn it down.
I agree but man it would be a nightmare if he did. You have to think think the possibility of Harbaugh will factor in to the equation.
bws258
Well-Known Member
If the Bears don't get Cowher, I think they might look at Harbaugh
honest Q ... which would Harbaugh want more?
See, that's another thing. He will be on NFL lists somewhere right below Cowher and Gruden. One of the things I always sort of liked about having RR is that he wasn't likely to get hired by the NFL because of the style. He's a college coach. If he were ever to hit, then we would have long term stability. With Harbaugh you don't have that. He would probably leave. I see him as that type. A little full of himself. There's a lot of rumblings around UM right now in regards to the defensive staff so we will see what happens. I can't see any way GR makes it through this. At the very least RR has to get rid of him to save face and make it look like he is doing everything he can which I think he has been doing.
