I wish Iowa would quit doing this.....

[1hawkeye1]

I still don't like the hedging by our bigs 30' from the basket. I don't recall the last time that we got any benefit at all from doing it, and we often pick up silly fouls.

I'ma gonna call Fran on his next call in show and ask him about it.

I also wanna give a shout out to HawkeyeNation, thanks for taking my call, I'll hang up and listen.

 

[hawkfan340]

I also have never liked it.

But I'm not an uber basketball mind either.

 

[sodakhawkeye]

How do you suggest they guard that high ball screen? These are some options.
1. Trap - IA has done this a few times especially late in games
2. Switch - 2 bad matchups now when its a big-little ball screen
3. Jam it - so the guard goes underneath the screen. leaves jump shooters wide open
4. Show - just dont take the same angle as the hedge and hope the guard gets through the screen quick

 

[1hawkeye1]

I would not do any of the above exclusively, because it makes it too easy to scout and counter. But a combination of them is sure to be more successful than constantly hedging it with a foul prone 7 footer.

I'd just like to hear Fran say what he is looking gain by doing it. Perhaps there is more to it than I'm seeing.

 

[sodakhawkeye]

I had no intentions of my post sounding snarky. I was just curious as to what your thoughts were - "if you don't like something how would you change it" scenario.

I actually agree with your 2nd post. Mix it up based on mathups. With Gabe in, I'd probably try and trap more. White and Uthoff both do a great job of rotating on the back side.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

I would not do any of the above exclusively, because it makes it too easy to scout and counter. But a combination of them is sure to be more successful than constantly hedging it with a foul prone 7 footer.

I'd just like to hear Fran say what he is looking gain by doing it. Perhaps there is more to it than I'm seeing.

Good defenses defend pick and rolls one way. Switching it up game to game, play by play, doesn't work. You need to drill it in practice over and over. Look at NBA teams, the Bulls and teams in the Doc River school of defense have their big guy drop and their guard try to fight through the pick while everyone else stays on their guy. Or you have teams that have their big guys hedge on screens, see the LeBron era Heat for the most-over aggressive team using this style with their trap and scramble strategy. Teams that switch up how they defend the pick and roll are usually teams that suck at defending it. Pick your strategy and get really good at it. I wouldn't be upset if Iowa switched to having Woody drop on screens, but the staff obviously feels like our guards have trouble getting off of picks.

 

[1hawkeye1]

Just seems to me to be a high risk low reward scenario. I'm curious why Fran does it and I really am going to call in and ask.

 

[FCAS]

When done properly, I think it's pretty disruptive to the other team's offensive flow.

 

[sodakhawkeye]

Good defenses defend pick and rolls one way. Switching it up game to game, play by play, doesn't work. You need to drill it in practice over and over. Look at NBA teams, the Bulls and teams in the Doc River school of defense have their big guy drop and their guard try to fight through the pick while everyone else stays on their guy. Or you have teams that have their big guys hedge on screens, see the LeBron era Heat for the most-over aggressive team using this style with their trap and scramble strategy. Teams that switch up how they defend the pick and roll are usually teams that suck at defending it. Pick your strategy and get really good at it. I wouldn't be upset if Iowa switched to having Woody drop on screens, but the staff obviously feels like our guards have trouble getting off of picks.

I have to disagree with you on this one. Great defenses make adjustments based on personal. If you are guarding a lightning quick guard who cant shoot a lick, you jam the screen and have the defender go underneath. You also have even/odd situations. If it is a similar player (guard to guard) then you switch the screen. Lots of coaches go to a trap late in the game if they need to get the ball out of a certain players hands. Coaches adjust from game to game and within games on how to defend screens both on the ball and away from the ball.

You have a primary way of defending ball screens. Fran prefers the hedge. then you can adjust off of that based on different scenarios of the game.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Great defenses make adjustments based on personal. If you are guarding a lightning quick guard who cant shoot a lick, you jam the screen and have the defender go underneath. You also have even/odd situations. If it is a similar player (guard to guard) then you switch the screen. Lots of coaches go to a trap late in the game if they need to get the ball out of a certain players hands. Coaches adjust from game to game and within games on how to defend screens both on the ball and away from the ball. You have a primary way of defending ball screens. Fran prefers the hedge. then you can adjust off of that based on different scenarios of the game.

You can make slight adjustments within your scheme, you're not changing from being a drop back team to a hedge team based on game to game matchups.

 

[RocknRollface]

Just seems to me to be a high risk low reward scenario. I'm curious why Fran does it and I really am going to call in and ask.

It's really not as simple as calling it a risk reward scenario.

They have to react in some way to what the offense is trying to do.

theres no perfect way to defend a high pick and hedging is generally the best way to defend a screen when the ball handler is capable of shooting threes and the screener is looking to roll to attack the basket.

For the most part it does what they want it to do. It worked perfectly against UM.

The only time I would want to see them defend it differently is when the ball handler is not looking to shoot, then just let the big sag off and the gaurd defending go under the screen and dare them to shoot.

 

[DFaceHawkeye]

A hard hedge on a high ball screen is about reducing passing lanes and not allowing a pass from the top of the key to either the rolling screener or the backside block. A 7-footer is a pretty good way of getting into those passing lanes and giving the ball defender enough time to get through the screen. Whenever a pick and roll takes place, someone (or more than one) on the backside of the defense is defending 2 people. Ball pressure makes this work and a hard hedge is ball pressure. Maybe the guys aren't always the best at it, but I've heard national basketball guys say that Iowa's bigs are some of the best hedging bigs in the country. They might make mistakes, but they take away so much that it's worth it.

 

[RocknRollface]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Great defenses make adjustments based on personal. If you are guarding a lightning quick guard who cant shoot a lick, you jam the screen and have the defender go underneath. You also have even/odd situations. If it is a similar player (guard to guard) then you switch the screen. Lots of coaches go to a trap late in the game if they need to get the ball out of a certain players hands. Coaches adjust from game to game and within games on how to defend screens both on the ball and away from the ball.

You have a primary way of defending ball screens. Fran prefers the hedge. then you can adjust off of that based on different scenarios of the game.

True, and Iowa does those things, but we are specifically talking about a screen when our big is defending the screener where switching is generally not an option, although Gabe is capable of staying in front of a guard if need be at times.

 

[RocknRollface]

A hard hedge on a high ball screen is about reducing passing lanes and not allowing a pass from the top of the key to either the rolling screener or the backside block. A 7-footer is a pretty good way of getting into those passing lanes and giving the ball defender enough time to get through the screen. Whenever a pick and roll takes place, someone (or more than one) on the backside of the defense is defending 2 people. Ball pressure makes this work and a hard hedge is ball pressure. Maybe the guys aren't always the best at it, but I've heard national basketball guys say that Iowa's bigs are some of the best hedging bigs in the country. They might make mistakes, but they take away so much that it's worth it.

This, when people say it doesn't work just because nothing happens, they're not understanding what's going on.

Nothing is what you want to have happen, and it generally works out that way 80/90 % of the time.

Yes the bigs usually pick up a foul or two a game doing it but that's a good trade off.

 

[Knight78]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Great defenses make adjustments based on personal. If you are guarding a lightning quick guard who cant shoot a lick, you jam the screen and have the defender go underneath. You also have even/odd situations. If it is a similar player (guard to guard) then you switch the screen. Lots of coaches go to a trap late in the game if they need to get the ball out of a certain players hands. Coaches adjust from game to game and within games on how to defend screens both on the ball and away from the ball.

You have a primary way of defending ball screens. Fran prefers the hedge. then you can adjust off of that based on different scenarios of the game.

And I'll have to disagree with you here. You can't change defenses game to game or possession to possession. That's because defense is not played by two guys defending the screen in any particular way; it's because the other guys also have to know.

• If you're going to hedge, then the other guys have to know and look for the screener either going to the basket or going to a spot-up. And the other guys need to know which kind of player that is and adjust according to the hedge.
• If you're going to switch, then the other guys need to know in case the big goes to the block and posts up. The other guys need to know to help the smaller teammate defend the big.
• If you're going to trap, then the other guys need to know in order to cut off the 1-pass lanes to make the trap more effective and possibly get a steal.
• If you're going to "jam" (your term - I learned to call it "play under the screen"), then the other guys need to know because the passing lane will be easier while the defense is behind the screener and they need to tighten up the passing lanes at precisely that time.
• If you're going to "show" (again, your term - I learned to call it "help and recover"), since the angle you're allowing is better, the other guys need to know this so they can appropriately sag into the lane to stop the drive to the basket.

The ONLY way to get good at any one of these techniques is to practice them day after day after day, ad nauseum. And have the coaches constantly watch for proper footwork, hand placement, positioning, etc. It's not something you can turn on and turn off. It's also not something that you wake up one day and say "I'm going to hedge today".

Fran has picked one method - the hedge - and gone with it. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it seems to be working for them and has made it difficult for our opponents. I will say that it is completely different than anything Woody had to do in high school and it's probably taken this long for him to learn to hedge effectively; I would add that Gabe probably didn't hedge much in high school either. Most teams that send their centers out to set the pick for their point guards are relying on the opponents' centers to be unable to hedge. I know I never had a problem going out to set a screen for our point guard but I would have had lots of problems hedging defensively (we used a "jam" technique when I played).

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

And I'll have to disagree with you here. You can't change defenses game to game or possession to possession. That's because defense is not played by two guys defending the screen in any particular way; it's because the other guys also have to know.

• If you're going to hedge, then the other guys have to know and look for the screener either going to the basket or going to a spot-up. And the other guys need to know which kind of player that is and adjust according to the hedge.
• If you're going to switch, then the other guys need to know in case the big goes to the block and posts up. The other guys need to know to help the smaller teammate defend the big.
• If you're going to trap, then the other guys need to know in order to cut off the 1-pass lanes to make the trap more effective and possibly get a steal.
• If you're going to "jam" (your term - I learned to call it "play under the screen"), then the other guys need to know because the passing lane will be easier while the defense is behind the screener and they need to tighten up the passing lanes at precisely that time.
• If you're going to "show" (again, your term - I learned to call it "help and recover"), since the angle you're allowing is better, the other guys need to know this so they can appropriately sag into the lane to stop the drive to the basket.

The ONLY way to get good at any one of these techniques is to practice them day after day after day, ad nauseum. And have the coaches constantly watch for proper footwork, hand placement, positioning, etc. It's not something you can turn on and turn off. It's also not something that you wake up one day and say "I'm going to hedge today".

Fran has picked one method - the hedge - and gone with it. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it seems to be working for them and has made it difficult for our opponents. I will say that it is completely different than anything Woody had to do in high school and it's probably taken this long for him to learn to hedge effectively; I would add that Gabe probably didn't hedge much in high school either. Most teams that send their centers out to set the pick for their point guards are relying on the opponents' centers to be unable to hedge. I know I never had a problem going out to set a screen for our point guard but I would have had lots of problems hedging defensively (we used a "jam" technique when I played).

Well said. When you start trying to switch defensive strategies, is when you start to get defensive breakdowns because everyone isn't on the same page.

Hedging is hard to teach because the guy doing it has to have a feel for when he's disrupted the guard enough and it's time to peel back. It's just a basketball IQ thing, you can't tell him x amount of steps or anything like that. Gabe has improved a ton at this, he used to get beat a lot on high pick and rolls where he stuck with the guard too long. Woody has always had a better feel for this which probably comes from playing a lot more basketball growing up.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Great defenses make adjustments based on personal. If you are guarding a lightning quick guard who cant shoot a lick, you jam the screen and have the defender go underneath. You also have even/odd situations. If it is a similar player (guard to guard) then you switch the screen. Lots of coaches go to a trap late in the game if they need to get the ball out of a certain players hands. Coaches adjust from game to game and within games on how to defend screens both on the ball and away from the ball.

You have a primary way of defending ball screens. Fran prefers the hedge. then you can adjust off of that based on different scenarios of the game.

I don't think you can change defensive philosophy like you can change defenses during a game or decide to put a press on all makes for the next 5 minutes. Players have to be on the same page, otherwise, one guy is doing one thing & the other is going to be like, "what, I thought we were trapping & not hedging, crap!".

 

[RocknRollface]

You can change how you defend screens during a game but everyone has to be on the same page before hand. You can't just wing it and your options are limited when it's a big screening for a guard.

if it's wings and guards screening for each other you have more options on how to play it.

 

[HawkeyeTech]

I see this defense all the time watching college hoops. Iowa is far from the only team using it.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

some of these posts are making me lol.... in all sports of all kinds changing defenses is often a sound and amazingly historically successful strategy.