I don't understand Fran

[BigD]

I th

I am a self described die hard Fran apologist. I think he's great and had done great with what he's had in the time he's been here. I am an optimist when it comes to Iowa sports in general; I don't like that we had a rebuilding year, but for a rebuilding year, it wasn't that bad and I can see clearly the upside with this program. All that said - if we miss the NCAA tournament even once over the next 3 seasons, my criticism will be very vocal for Fran's faults. I honestly don't think I will have to worry about it tho.

I have s

Just a little better defense will go a very long ways. To your point, when you try to win by simply outscoring everyone....and then you don't shoot great and play a hot team(see Indiana game)....you get your doors blown off....or lose to UNO....

Very true!!!!

Defense it's what's made Wisconsin who they are and have been for over a decade.

 

[BigD]

Just a little better defense will go a very long ways. To your point, when you try to win by simply outscoring everyone....and then you don't shoot great and play a hot team(see Indiana game)....you get your doors blown off....or lose to UNO....

Interesting that Lickliter's defenses could hold teams to fifty points. His down fall was that his offense could not score fifty-one. Lick ball was like a death in the family. Shock, anger, sadness, insanity.

 

[Adam]

I'm not rooting against Dom but I honestly hope we don't need him next year. I hope Nunge can come in and be similar to Dom as a stretch 4 at 6'9"/6'10" but I think Nunge will be a much better outside shooter. Nunge won't be as strong as Dom so that may be a concern on both D and rebounding.

I am in the same boat. I believe Nunge is a steal and will be light years better than Dom. I don't like to expect incoming freshman to be better than Seniors though. Needing Dom to play a particular role is not a weakness though. If the team needs him the team needs him. That doesn't suggest there is a problem. Sometimes you have to use all the lemons in your basket to get a full glass of Lemonade. Even the bruised and not perfect ones. There is no shame in it. It's better overall if Dom just buckles down and takes the next step. If he can't then it is what it is. It's our last year to worry about it either way.

 

[SpiderRico]

Man, these mirror past KFz events so much it's scary

1. play the upperclassman over younger talent
2. situational player insertion (or lack there of)
3. Fumble once? You're benched...let's kill your confidence

I disagree with your comparison...

Our underclassmen play the bulk of the minutes. If FM were KF, we'd have Ellingson and Uhl playing a crap-ton more minutes. And Tyler Cook has been a turnover machine all year (and had 7 in the TCU game) but FM kept going back to him. Also, if FM were KF, we'd be seeing a lot better defense. In fact, FM is basically everything the KF haters keep bashing KF about.....FM plays a ton of freshmen, he obviously values offense over defense, he pushes tempo even if it means a lot of turnovers, and for the most part let's his young players play thru mistakes. I'd say he's basically the anti-KF.

But the whole Moss situation is just weird. There has to be more to the situation than "he's just not being aggressive enough".

 

[BigD]

I am in the same boat. I believe Nunge is a steal and will be light years better than Dom. I don't like to expect incoming freshman to be better than Seniors though. Needing Dom to play a particular role is not a weakness though. If the team needs him the team needs him. That doesn't suggest there is a problem. Sometimes you have to use all the lemons in your basket to get a full glass of Lemonade. Even the bruised and not perfect ones. There is no shame in it. It's better overall if Dom just buckles down and takes the next step. If he can't then it is what it is. It's our last year to worry about it either way.

What has me scratching my head about Dom is that as a freshman he looked really good and many thought he had a high ceiling. Then he seemed to peak in his freshmen year and actual digress some. I don't know if he got injured and never bounced back or what happened. Let's hope he has a breakout season and surprise us all.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

What has me scratching my head about Dom is that as a freshman he looked really good and many thought he had a high ceiling. Then he seemed to peak in his freshmen year and actual digress some. I don't know if he got injured and never bounced back or what happened. Let's hope he has a breakout season and surprise us all.

His confidence is gone. He doesn't even look to shoot or score, especially from outside. Catch....shot fake, feet shuffle...dribble...pass. I like Dom, but something has changed/happened. Good Hawkeye and I hope he bounces back. He has the physical presence...

 

[Kennyfromminne]

I'm sure with the money he's making he can afford vaulted ceilings.

Fran is that you?

 

[Adam]

Fran is that you?

I'm just saying I'm not an architect, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[DDThompson]

I disagree with your comparison...

Our underclassmen play the bulk of the minutes. If FM were KF, we'd have Ellingson and Uhl playing a crap-ton more minutes. And Tyler Cook has been a turnover machine all year (and had 7 in the TCU game) but FM kept going back to him. Also, if FM were KF, we'd be seeing a lot better defense. In fact, FM is basically everything the KF haters keep bashing KF about.....FM plays a ton of freshmen, he obviously values offense over defense, he pushes tempo even if it means a lot of turnovers, and for the most part let's his young players play thru mistakes. I'd say he's basically the anti-KF.

This is straight on. But, of course, that does not fit the narrative for Fran-haters.

 

[PCHawk]

I am hopeful for the next two to three years like everyone else but I don't want to see the basketball program fall into the same trap as the football program and the apathy around it. Things can't be too great as Several posters have stated the only half the seats are occupied during the regular season basketball games. When Lute was here you couldn't get tickets to the game as they were always some out unless we were playing someone we knew we would kill by forty points.

So apparently there is some apathy that has set in. Sure he is doing better that Steve or Lick has done but a time period is approaching where it will be apparent one way or the other what direction this program is going.

It appears that our recruiting has ticked up and that is why I have said I can see waiting a couple more years to see what Fran can do with what appears to be upgrades in recruiting. One poster was already arguing one day that even if we don't improve in the next couple of years who is to say it won't happen a few years after that. People get themselves in a trap. Most people don't like change because worse things could happen so just stand put and accept mediocrity and hope once in a while the conference is down combined with slightly better recruits and we win the conference. Lame as hell.

I know that many on here have been saying the same thing as I have been. We will give Fran a pass this year because his freshmen player well but are very young. I totally agree and have openly said so. Many have also agreed with me that the time of excuses has got to come to an end within three years. I totally agree.

My gripe is with the dumb masses out here who will be making excuses IF Fran doesn't pull it together in the next three years. They are out here and they will support him if that happens and will be talking trash about how great the next recruiting class will be. These types of fans kill me. It's this mindset that destroys sports programs because. It's what Hayden Fry identified as his top priority to change when he first got here............ and they are back in spades.

I ask all of you that are on the same bus as I am not to listen or be influenced by these types of people. If it don't work out ( and I hope it does as I have been supporting Fran all along) then it's time to vocal. My biggest gripe isn't so much with Fran as it is with these fans out here that Hayden Fry was talking about. Accept mediocrity and make up excuses of why it's ok.

Lol I'm pretty sure I'm the one poster you're talking about. Talk about taking a post out of context. You're pretending I was saying we should always give a few more years and hope it gets better. When all I was doing was rebuttaling people who say "Fran has hit his ceiling" every fricking year. Unless a coach is noticeably regressing on recruiting (Fran is doing the opposite) why would anyone say he has hit his ceiling? Coaches rarely get fired because they've "hit their ceiling" anyway. They get fired because their average seasons aren't good enough.

 

[BigD]

The point I was making was that in two years he will have been here for ten years and that should be a big enough window to determine what his ceiling is UNLESS he isn't making huge in road in rec

Lol I'm pretty sure I'm the one poster you're talking about. Talk about taking a post out of context. You're pretending I was saying we should always give a few more years and hope it gets better. When all I was doing was rebuttaling people who say "Fran has hit his ceiling" every fricking year. Unless a coach is noticeably regressing on recruiting (Fran is doing the opposite) why would anyone say he has hit his ceiling? Coaches rarely get fired because they've "hit their ceiling" anyway. They get fired because their average seasons aren't good enough.

PC I can't pretend to always know what someone's intentions were when they post something. So let's look at what I said and what you said in response. Your comments were in response to the second part of my comments and my point was that IN TWO MORE YEARS Fran will have been here for TEN YEARS and by then we should have a good idea of what Fran ball is going to be about. Most schools are not even going to wait that long. Also it could be great in two years I wasn't saying anything about it being bad in two years I was just saying that at that point we should be talking about performance and not hoping for some in coming recruits to change the past history of a ten year tenure. I will admit your comment about at YEAR TWENTY did irk me.

Maybe you didn't mean that we should all be sitting here ten years from now having lost in the first round of the BTT for twenty years and never gotten past the second round in the NCAA tournament and talking about incoming recruits. The thought of that is extremely irritating just thinking about it.

However you were indicating a good point that it could happen but my point is history and past performance are the only real solid evidence of what the future may hold. Fran could make this all a mute point by really kicking ass the next three years and I HOPE HE DOES JUST THAT.

I think it's fair to look at your comments and POSSIBLY glean from it that you weren't just making a point but that you were thinking this was an acceptable excuse to keep Fran on a blind hope if the next three years don't produce the results most of us are expecting. If I misunderstood then I apologize to you. It wasn't just me that thought that as you also got a few other posters upset also. One poster even said that using this same logic we should have kept Lickliter around for several more years. Anyway here is what I said with your response down below.

BigD said;

When you sign an ALL AMERICAN point guard from the Junior College ranks and he comes in and looks terrible................whelp that one has had me scratching my head. Also that is the position and the type of player that has been a failure recruiting and developing in the Iowa Program under Fran. I am biting my fingers here trying not to be too critical but the truth is what it is............. and yes defense, defense, defense as most of you have pointed out.

In two more years Fran will have been here for ten years and will have seen the best that he has to offer as a coach. The freshmen class we have and a FEW of the incoming recruits in next year's and following years class APPEAR to be upgrades in talent and ability so that's why I am being patient. If we still are at the same level and having the same results two years from today we'll then the gloves come off.

PC said

One more comment on after 10 years we will have seen the best Fran has to offer. How is there any way to know that? How can you know he won't land a couple big time stud recruits after the 10 year mark? How can you know that Weiscamp and Patrick won't lay a foundation for Fran's best team ever in year 12? Maybe that Foster kid ends up being the best big man in the history of Iowa. I just don't know how people don't understand that a coach can just as easily land his best team ever in year 12 or 15 or 20 than he can in his first 10 years.

 

[PCHawk]

The point I was making was that in two years he will have been here for ten years and that should be a big enough window to determine what his ceiling is UNLESS he isn't making huge in road in rec



PC I can't pretend to always know what someone's intentions were when they post something. So let's look at what I said and what you said in response. Your comments were in response to the second part of my comments and my point was that IN TWO MORE YEARS Fran will have been here for TEN YEARS and by then we should have a good idea of what Fran ball is going to be about. Most schools are not even going to wait that long. Also it could be great in two years I wasn't saying anything about it being bad in two years I was just saying that at that point we should be talking about performance and not hoping for some in coming recruits to change the past history of a ten year tenure. I will admit your comment about at YEAR TWENTY did irk me.

Maybe you didn't mean that we should all be sitting here ten years from now having lost in the first round of the BTT for twenty years and never gotten past the second round in the NCAA tournament and talking about incoming recruits. The thought of that is extremely irritating just thinking about it.

However you were indicating a good point that it could happen but my point is history and past performance are the only real solid evidence of what the future may hold. Fran could make this all a mute point by really kicking ass the next three years and I HOPE HE DOES JUST THAT.

I think it's fair to look at your comments and POSSIBLY glean from it that you weren't just making a point but that you were thinking this was an acceptable excuse to keep Fran on a blind hope if the next three years don't produce the results most of us are expecting. If I misunderstood then I apologize to you. It wasn't just me that thought that as you also got a few other posters upset also. One poster even said that using this same logic we should have kept Lickliter around for several more years. Anyway here is what I said with your response down below.

BigD said;

When you sign an ALL AMERICAN point guard from the Junior College ranks and he comes in and looks terrible................whelp that one has had me scratching my head. Also that is the position and the type of player that has been a failure recruiting and developing in the Iowa Program under Fran. I am biting my fingers here trying not to be too critical but the truth is what it is............. and yes defense, defense, defense as most of you have pointed out.

In two more years Fran will have been here for ten years and will have seen the best that he has to offer as a coach. The freshmen class we have and a FEW of the incoming recruits in next year's and following years class APPEAR to be upgrades in talent and ability so that's why I am being patient. If we still are at the same level and having the same results two years from today we'll then the gloves come off.

PC said

One more comment on after 10 years we will have seen the best Fran has to offer. How is there any way to know that? How can you know he won't land a couple big time stud recruits after the 10 year mark? How can you know that Weiscamp and Patrick won't lay a foundation for Fran's best team ever in year 12? Maybe that Foster kid ends up being the best big man in the history of Iowa. I just don't know how people don't understand that a coach can just as easily land his best team ever in year 12 or 15 or 20 than he can in his first 10 years.

The point I was making was that in two years he will have been here for ten years and that should be a big enough window to determine what his ceiling is UNLESS he isn't making huge in road in rec



PC I can't pretend to always know what someone's intentions were when they post something. So let's look at what I said and what you said in response. Your comments were in response to the second part of my comments and my point was that IN TWO MORE YEARS Fran will have been here for TEN YEARS and by then we should have a good idea of what Fran ball is going to be about. Most schools are not even going to wait that long. Also it could be great in two years I wasn't saying anything about it being bad in two years I was just saying that at that point we should be talking about performance and not hoping for some in coming recruits to change the past history of a ten year tenure. I will admit your comment about at YEAR TWENTY did irk me.

Maybe you didn't mean that we should all be sitting here ten years from now having lost in the first round of the BTT for twenty years and never gotten past the second round in the NCAA tournament and talking about incoming recruits. The thought of that is extremely irritating just thinking about it.

However you were indicating a good point that it could happen but my point is history and past performance are the only real solid evidence of what the future may hold. Fran could make this all a mute point by really kicking ass the next three years and I HOPE HE DOES JUST THAT.

I think it's fair to look at your comments and POSSIBLY glean from it that you weren't just making a point but that you were thinking this was an acceptable excuse to keep Fran on a blind hope if the next three years don't produce the results most of us are expecting. If I misunderstood then I apologize to you. It wasn't just me that thought that as you also got a few other posters upset also. One poster even said that using this same logic we should have kept Lickliter around for several more years. Anyway here is what I said with your response down below.

BigD said;

When you sign an ALL AMERICAN point guard from the Junior College ranks and he comes in and looks terrible................whelp that one has had me scratching my head. Also that is the position and the type of player that has been a failure recruiting and developing in the Iowa Program under Fran. I am biting my fingers here trying not to be too critical but the truth is what it is............. and yes defense, defense, defense as most of you have pointed out.

In two more years Fran will have been here for ten years and will have seen the best that he has to offer as a coach. The freshmen class we have and a FEW of the incoming recruits in next year's and following years class APPEAR to be upgrades in talent and ability so that's why I am being patient. If we still are at the same level and having the same results two years from today we'll then the gloves come off.

PC said

One more comment on after 10 years we will have seen the best Fran has to offer. How is there any way to know that? How can you know he won't land a couple big time stud recruits after the 10 year mark? How can you know that Weiscamp and Patrick won't lay a foundation for Fran's best team ever in year 12? Maybe that Foster kid ends up being the best big man in the history of Iowa. I just don't know how people don't understand that a coach can just as easily land his best team ever in year 12 or 15 or 20 than he can in his first 10 years.

OK I get how you can think that's what it meant. But it didn't mean that. I've posted a lot getting on people who say we've seen Frans ceiling. It drives me nuts that people think coaching trajectory always goes in a straight line up. It doesn't. Every single coach has up years, followed by down years, followed by up years.

That's why I got on you so bad. You say if this class isn't his best years, it means we've already seen them. Not only is there no way to know that, but there is nothing to even suggest that.

The main difference between me and you is I think the last 4 years (which were pretty good) are average years for Fran. I think this year is the bare minimum we Wil get, and last year without the poor finish is the max.

He turned a team that had 3 starters that couldn't score and had a mental block in close games into a team that was looking at a 1 seed with 5 games left. He took a team with 4 freshmen starters and turned them into a team that played like a tournament team at the end of the year. His ceiling will happen when he has a team full of upperclassmen who committed here after he had us back on the map. But truth is, that might not even be his ceiling. Who the hell knows what his ceiling will be until he proves he is going in the wrong direction in recruiting like Tom Davis was doing at the end of his career.

 

[InGoodCo]

I want to know why Fran's first 7 years aren't good enough? They were good enough for every coach that came before him at Iowa. His record is on par with pretty much everyone but Lute. I get that if you are saying we need to be better, I agree with that, what I don't agree with is that Fran isn't getting it done. He is, by Iowa history and standards, getting it done. If you want the bar raised, I will agree with that - he hasn't done that yet, but once he gets to the sweet 16 - anything other than that or better isn't going to be good enough either. Keep progressing is all you can ask for - I think he's done that and then some and he's allowed a rebuilding year after taking over what he had to deal with and what it took to get us back to where we are.

 

[PCHawk]

I want to know why Fran's first 7 years aren't good enough? They were good enough for every coach that came before him at Iowa. His record is on par with pretty much everyone but Lute. I get that if you are saying we need to be better, I agree with that, what I don't agree with is that Fran isn't getting it done. He is, by Iowa history and standards, getting it done. If you want the bar raised, I will agree with that - he hasn't done that yet, but once he gets to the sweet 16 - anything other than that or better isn't going to be good enough either. Keep progressing is all you can ask for - I think he's done that and then some and he's allowed a rebuilding year after taking over what he had to deal with and what it took to get us back to where we are.

It's crazy when you argue with people who want Fran gone, they act like you're fine with us sucking. We aren't sucking. We've had 2 great years that were sabotaged by not being able to close games or seasons. If last year's class and Marble would have had this team's mental toughness, we would already have two top 10 finishes.

Remember the stat where we were 0 for 50, or whatever ridiculous number it was, when in a one possession game with under 30 seconds? Well we've had 4 since then in the past 3 years before this one. This year I lose count. I would guess therr were at least 5.

Wolfgang said in his podcast he is sick of losing one possession games. But in that game in regulation we scored on our last possession and got a stop on theirs. We needed the miracle finish just to get to ot and got it. Then in overtime we needed a miracle again just to have a chance at the end. This year, the team actually performed well in late game situations. That's why when they get in a position where the national attention is on them, they will handle it and we will see what Frans ceiling really is. And Hawkeye Nation will be a quiet place.

 

[tksirius]

We've had 2 great years that were sabotaged by not being able to close games or seasons.

 

[HawkGold]

I want to know why Fran's first 7 years aren't good enough? They were good enough for every coach that came before him at Iowa. His record is on par with pretty much everyone but Lute. I get that if you are saying we need to be better, I agree with that, what I don't agree with is that Fran isn't getting it done. He is, by Iowa history and standards, getting it done. If you want the bar raised, I will agree with that - he hasn't done that yet, but once he gets to the sweet 16 - anything other than that or better isn't going to be good enough either. Keep progressing is all you can ask for - I think he's done that and then some and he's allowed a rebuilding year after taking over what he had to deal with and what it took to get us back to where we are.

Starting with: I'm not a Fran fan, but I think his results are good enough...

What is aggravating is that there are obvious big and loud holes in his coaching/recruiting. There are things that a D1 power team shouldn't do and repeatedly show little or no improvement on.

For many coaches, this is easily solved. Recruit better players and holes in his game and fundamentals coaching don't show up so much.

Fran is able to overcome for some reason these gaping holes and keep things moving forward. He has a knack for it. For many detractors, this years accomplishments were a big surprise and we should see continued improvement.

Part of the reason for his success is longevity. Will he ever get Iowa to a Final 4? I doubt it, but who knows. If the goal is an occasional Sweet 16, that is very doable with Fran. Note I said "occasional".

If he had a D1 P5 pt guard the past 2 years that is the type ALL of the Sweet 16 that I can see have, it was within reach the past 2 years. 2nd Note: I love JB as a player.

 

[BigD]

. I never really expected to get this close to the NCAA tourney this year with the youth of this team. I felt he did a good job getting these young players to adjust and compete at the level they did. I really didn't expect much from this year other than hope they all made improvements and show promise for he future. Mission accomplished as far as I am concerned.

I am glad to see that most expect this program to move on and improve. That's what I want also. However am I satisfied on what we have accomplished in eight year? To be honest.......no.

I would like Fran to win at least two games in the BTT and the NCAA tournament at least once every three years. One or two of you have mentioned a sweet 16 and that would help like crazy. Finishing tied with four or five teams for fourth place in the B1G may cut it for you but not me.

Do you go around boasting of it at work or with other sports fans? If so may i suggest meds? The object of big time sports is to be the best at least once in a while. How many walked around and were chanting "were seventy, were seventy, were seventy" when were invited to the the NIT? If you did you have no business EVER making fun of anything ISU fans say or do. In fact if the Iowa achievements in basketball have satisfied you and your happy with losing in the first game in the BTT or being a first seed in the NIT, or losing in the first round of the NCAA and those are the only things you want or expect then maybe you ought to change colors and move to Ames where you will fit in with you cousins.

Just getting to the NCAA is all you ever expect or want? What your saying then is that sixth place in the Big Ten is all you want every year. I want to win the B1G regular season championship. I want to win the Big Ten Tournament and just once In every thirty years win a national championship. A final four once every fifteen years. I don't think that is asking too much.

If you want to play that history crap of this is all Iowa has ever done and we can't expect anything more then ISU is for you. Again, this mindset was what Hayden Fry said was the biggest challenge at Iowa. If the fans expect it and except it then why should the AD ever have to worry about his job or ever being in a hot seat?

We were getting are asses handed to us until Hayden came in and showed WE CAN. If it can happen in football it can in basketball. I am hopeful after watching these freshmen play so well. I still think Joc means more to this team than some are giving him credit for. I would not be surprised if we struggle again next season also, but the year after that is when I expect Iowa to make hay big time. I am not one of those who are calling for Frans head. I am in a wait and see mode right now. Two to three more years to prove he can win a B1G title or tournament or at least come very close. A sweet sixteen also would also be nice in the next three years. I would feel much better if he just does one of theses things but both would be great. Then I will be satisfied that he should stay on as coach. If not then changes need to be made.

 

[PCHawk]

Anyone who goes around bragging about how good the team they cheer for does needs meds period. Why would you brag about something you played no part in?

 

[Knight78]

Interesting that Lickliter's defenses could hold teams to fifty points. His down fall was that his offense could not score fifty-one. Lick ball was like a death in the family. Shock, anger, sadness, insanity.

You wonder why his teams couldn't score 51? Really? Did you actually watch any of those games? How many times did we pass the ball around until 5 seconds left on the shot clock and then heave a highly contested 3? How many times did we walk the ball up the court? Here's a better question: how come you can count the number of fast break points Iowa scored per game on one hand?

Face it. Lick ball was to hold until the last possible moment and then shoot. This leads to less possessions during the game and lower scores as a rule. I have no doubt that if there wasn't a shot clock at the time, a lot of Lick-coached games would end with the score 4-2 with Iowa shooting 50% from the field and losing.

 

[Adam]

Anyone who goes around bragging about how good the team they cheer for does needs meds period. Why would you brag about something you played no part in?

Lol. I'm guilty. Please recommend the proper meds for my affliction.