I ask a question of this forum

[Iowafarmgirl]

While scholarship athletes are held to a higher standard, I feel that many posting these "holier than thou" sentiments forget how immature many of us were at age 18-23 years old. Add to that the fact that most of these athletes (walk-ons included) have been accustomed to a good amount of adulation from kids and adults for their athletics ability prior to coming to Iowa and continue to as BCS level athletes. For those that were not Division I athletes, you need to realize they are not like you. It won't be until well after their playing days are over that they will appreciate and truly know what a special thing they have. Hell, alot of non-high profile, non-athletes are cocky and feel invincible away from home for the first time in their lives in college. Add to that playing in front of 70,000 people every Saturday and you would have a hard time not feeling invincible.

DJK probably though he was untouchable. He is finding out the hard way is wasn't. He will learn from it.

And yet, 99.9% of them don't turn to pot, coke, and illegally prescribed pain pills. There is no rationalizing what he did. Getting drunk, yes, you can rationalize that. Shacking up with a dealer? No, you use living in the spot light to explain that away.

 

[PJHawk]

I attended college on an athletic scholarship...

farmgirl you're not Brandon Wegher's girlfriend are you?

 

[theiowahawkeye]

In a word "yes".

There is a segment on these boards that is hyper religious that would disagree with that but I think most people would agree with you.

I appreciated your last paragraph there and wanted to also state that I have a big problem with the news outlets listing the PAULA citations alongside the sexual assaults and drug charges. It really cheapens the more serious offenses in an effort to arm the "we hate Iowa athletics crowd". (comprised of DB Iowa State fans and pretentious nerdy types.)

Hyper religious? Wow, sensitive much? I, for one, am anything but "hyper religious" yet I didn't have a group of friends in college who drank, did drugs or was ever arrested for anythig - even once. In fact, when i was in college I was married, raising a family, and worked a full time job to put my own butt through college in the first place. My friends were doing much the same thing. And yes, we were all in our early 20s. So no, I'm not expecting anything of a football player that I did not do myself.

 

[Jeebus]

Hyper religious? Wow, sensitive much? .

The irony.

So you were married while attending college? I think that is pretty rare these days outside of Utah but whatever. Were you given up by your biological mother too? I'm sure you can totally relate to DJK's situation.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

And yet, 99.9% of them don't turn to pot, coke, and illegally prescribed pain pills. There is no rationalizing what he did. Getting drunk, yes, you can rationalize that. Shacking up with a dealer? No, you use living in the spot light to explain that away.

99.9% is a very high perentage, you are really underestimating the drug among the student population at pretty much every college.

 

[racerhawk]

A society without judgement creates reckless behavior. Why do you think we have school shootings and other like events that were never heard of 50 years ago? We are at a point where spanking your kid is regarded as child abuse, yet fail to see the negative effects of watered down discipline and being tolerant of everything.

I agree...to a point.

The judgement should come from the law, and possibly the school. And...it will.

Football fans should just be football fans, IMHO. We can be disappointed, sure. As individuals, we can certainly decide whether or not to forgive him, but do any of us have personal relationship with the guy? In other words, is it helpful for people to have a discussion about "forgiving" a public figure whom they do not even know? He's a flawed person, as we all are.

My wife said something interesting to me awhile back (in reference to Tiger Woods and Brett Farve situations). She said "people are shocked when the people we've treated like gods begin to act like gods." I thought it was a pretty good comment, actually.

For what it's worth, I suppose I forgive him, but I don't think it's my place to forgive him. He's clearly made some mistakes and needs to get his life straight. Perhaps he has an addiction at this point. Who knows? At any rate, I hope he moves on, the team moves on, and we (anonymous fans) move on as well.

Football fans aren't society's guardians. We do have those institutions, and they're apprently going after him vigorously.

 

[racerhawk]

And yet, 99.9% of them don't turn to pot, coke, and illegally prescribed pain pills. There is no rationalizing what he did. Getting drunk, yes, you can rationalize that. Shacking up with a dealer? No, you use living in the spot light to explain that away.

I'm not sure if that's accurate.

I do agree, however, that DJK's reasons for doing whatever are fairly personal. He's got some problems that go beyond simple "celebrity status" or other explanations. It's up to him to figure that stuff out.

I don't think that you or I can generalize our experiences onto other people and then make judgements based upon our perspectives. I manage a psych/addictions unit, and for many years now, I've interacted with addicts and people with mental health problems on a daily basis. It's quite instructive. Basically, one can't really know someone's demons unless we walk a mile in their shoes. That's not always possible to do. Lastly, sometimes people have underlying mental illness that also contribute the the drug or alcohol problem. Just sayin that it ain't so simple to surmise from afar...

 

[racerhawk]

This current Iowa FB team, the military, most any group you associate with, is a microcosm of society.

A bell curve if you will regarding behavior, choices. Constant poor poor choices on the left, a mix of typical good/poor choices in the middle, and constant perfect choices on the right.

To expect a shift to the right of the bell curve for the FB team, or any other sports team, is naive, and, for those of us looking in from 'normal' society, unfair.

So, to answer the OP's question, no, we should not expect 'more' from a bell-curve set of people who happen to wear shoulder pads. Cross-group-variability is always going to be there for any population.

Very well said.

 

[Warhawks77]

Clearly, this thread has turned somewhere I don't think the OP had intended. Anyway, I will respond to the initial question: I was in a fraternity at Iowa. Certainly one of the more involved and active on campus. Full of really good guys, many of whom were accomplished high school athletes, just not big enough or fast enough to play at the Division 1 level.

I have thought about this many times: Let's just say for argument sake that there were 100 of us (honestly can't remember how many). In ANY given year during my time at the University, I guarantee there were a handful of Publix Intox charges, a handful of Public Urination charges, a couple Disorderly Conduct charges, a couple downtown skirmishes, at least one OWI, etc. I can't recall anything more serious than these but the "lesser" offenses were somewhat common.
I am well aware that having a scholarship brings a different level of responsbility, as it should. I just don't think that most of the players ( I knew and socialized with many of them) look at themselves "socially" as much different than the rest of the students. Generally speaking, they went to the same places, did many of the same things, and found the same amount of trouble: actaully probably less than the rest of the social student body.
Those are the facts, I will let the rest argue as to what that means or what it should mean.

I see where you are heading and have seen others make this argument. Remove the fact he was a hawkeye football player. What we actually have are two guys that had enough going on that the Iowa city police actually went to a county judge and asked for a warrant to enter the house. They were busted before the knock even came.

Scholarship athletes should be held to the same standards as the rest of us...... legally. But as stewards of the University Image due to direct affiliation with a sports program, they are held to a higher accountability. The main student social body does not wear the school trademarked sports emblem on the front page of major newspapers every Saturday. The main social student is not featured on the offical University of Iowa web page. In my opinion, athletes should be held more accountable for their actions as once they accept the scholarship, they also accept the responsibility that comes with being affiliated with the image of the University and it's programs.

 

[Hurtstown]

This is a great discussion, getting it from all sides, but that was the intent of my original post. Living and growing up in Iowa city, going to school there, I think it is important to understand the enviroment that the students are in. I agree that the scholarship is the difference. I paid my own way into school, I respected that fact and like I said, did not make any major mistakes. Drinking and to a lesser point, Pot, are a common place in the Iowa city scene. I was not a hardly heavy drinker, I only tried pot a few times, but I did see it all around me. I would prefer to avoid any charges of players, but realize that the public intox and others are not a definition of mismanagement of the coaches.

Great conversation though...keep it up

 

[theiowahawkeye]

The irony.

So you were married while attending college? I think that is pretty rare these days outside of Utah but whatever. Were you given up by your biological mother too? I'm sure you can totally relate to DJK's situation.

I called you out on an overly sensitive response - how is that ironic? And Utah? Yeah, I went through the state once - pretty nasty place really. I've lived in Iowa my entire life. And no - I'm not a member of any church or religion. Not really sure why you're jumping to these assumptions other than to try to bolster you overly-sensitive and knee-jerk comments.

No, I wasn't given up by my biological mother - nor do I have needed to be to have trials in my life. I don't buy this garbage that someone has to have EXACTLY the same trials in life to have a hard life. We all have our trials, we all have to deal with those trials. And that was the question posed "to the forum": are we asking more of these football players than we ask of ourselves?

My answer obviously botherd you.

 

[homes]

I went to Iowa at a time when football players never got in trouble for doing anything. The coaches might have gotten on them, but as far as legal trouble, didn't happen. Those guys weren't angels back then, they just didn't have to worry about getting in legal trouble.

Those days no longer exist in Iowa City. Football players surely know this. Like it or not, they are held to a higher standard, and must be held to a higher standard, because they take on obligations that the rest of the student populace does not have. If they don't want the burden of that standard, then don't accept a scholarship to the UI. Go become a member of the general student population or go somewhere else.

It's about choices, and consequences if you make a choice knowing what the rules are going into it.

There's no room for moralizing about their behavior, but they're not above being chastised when they mess up, since they know the deal going in.

 

[djk41]

99.9% is a very high perentage, you are really underestimating the drug among the student population at pretty much every college.

This ^. I think you would be surprised as to how many players take a puff from time to time.

 

[homes]

I went to Iowa at a time when football players never got in trouble for doing anything. The coaches might have gotten on them and kicked their ***, but as far as legal trouble, didn't happen. Those guys weren't angels back then, they just didn't have to worry about getting in legal trouble.

Those days no longer exist in Iowa City. Football players surely know this. Like it or not, they are held to a higher standard, and must be held to a higher standard, because they take on obligations that the rest of the student populace does not have. If they don't want the burden of that standard, then don't accept a scholarship to the UI. Go become a member of the general student population or go somewhere else.

It's about choices, and consequences if you make a choice knowing what the rules are going into it.

There's no room for moralizing about their behavior, but they're not above being chastised when they mess up, since they know the deal going in.

 

[alexzelada]

I want to preface this by saying that I am not defending KF or the program for any legal issues, I am not making light of DJK and his situation. This only an open discussion to share a thought. An NCAA football team consist of 85 scholarship players and a number of walkons. All between the ages of 18-23 and all in the upper tier (you would assume) in the social scene due to their Athlete status.

I went to Iowa, I lived with an athlete my senior year, I had a group of friends that I hung out with.

Here is my question:

If you take a look at the guys I hung out with in my college years, you would have 3 drunk driving arrest, a number of public intoxication arrest, public urination, and 1 that spent time in prison for drugs (came from a rich family) and a handful of other minor issues. I am a good guy, no record, no issues. My friends were good guys, but some made bad decisions. We were not in the upper tier socially in Iowa City, but we existed in it. So in my situation, my pool of friends were lower than the 85 yearly scholarship athletes, but we still had our issues. If you take my group and expand it to 85, and call it a football team, the coach would be a disgrace.

Can others on this site say the same thing?

Are we expecting more from a college football team than we expect from ourselves?

(rape, theft, drugs are not acceptable at any level. I disassociated with my inprisoned friend as soon as he got involved, my focus is more on the College level legal issues )

To this day are your friends still behaving this way? Well why not since there's really nothing wrong with it?

 

[gohawks71]

A society without judgement creates reckless behavior. Why do you think we have school shootings and other like events that were never heard of 50 years ago? We are at a point where spanking your kid is regarded as child abuse, yet fail to see the negative effects of watered down discipline and being tolerant of everything.

Amen brother.... AMEN!