I ask a question of this forum

[Hurtstown]

I want to preface this by saying that I am not defending KF or the program for any legal issues, I am not making light of DJK and his situation. This only an open discussion to share a thought. An NCAA football team consist of 85 scholarship players and a number of walkons. All between the ages of 18-23 and all in the upper tier (you would assume) in the social scene due to their Athlete status.

I went to Iowa, I lived with an athlete my senior year, I had a group of friends that I hung out with.

Here is my question:

If you take a look at the guys I hung out with in my college years, you would have 3 drunk driving arrest, a number of public intoxication arrest, public urination, and 1 that spent time in prison for drugs (came from a rich family) and a handful of other minor issues. I am a good guy, no record, no issues. My friends were good guys, but some made bad decisions. We were not in the upper tier socially in Iowa City, but we existed in it. So in my situation, my pool of friends were lower than the 85 yearly scholarship athletes, but we still had our issues. If you take my group and expand it to 85, and call it a football team, the coach would be a disgrace.

Can others on this site say the same thing?

Are we expecting more from a college football team than we expect from ourselves?

(rape, theft, drugs are not acceptable at any level. I disassociated with my inprisoned friend as soon as he got involved, my focus is more on the College level legal issues )

 

[thefizz]

I don't know if that's common, but it sounds similar to me and my group of friends when we were 19-23.

 

[silvanthalas]

Are we expecting more from a college football team than we expect from ourselves?

Yes. And for me it comes down to the fact that many of them are there on scholarship.

That scholarship comes with a higher standard when there are many who would like to attend the university but cannot, whether it be due to finances or, with some universities, a limit on the number of students who can attend.

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

Yes. And for me it comes down to the fact that many of them are there on scholarship.

That scholarship comes with a higher standard when there are many who would like to attend the university but cannot, whether it be due to finances or, with some universities, a limit on the number of students who can attend.

I attended college on an athletic scholarship, and you are absolutely correct. Our coach told us all the time that we had certain responsibilities to the school, more so than other students.

One of the biggest things though, is that we always watched out for each other. I mean, no one was doing hard drugs, but if we knew about it, we wouldn't turn a blind eye to it. If I drank too much at a party, then I knew my teammates would take care of everything, and wouldn't let me drive, or pick fights, or pass out in a yard.

I don't know why there wasn't another player on the team who knew that DJK had a pharmacy in his bedroom and why they didn't tell him to stop. I knew the stakes when I was an athlete, and my stakes were a fraction of Big 10 football. My biggest concern was not dissapointing the team.

 

[Jeebus]

In a word "yes".

There is a segment on these boards that is hyper religious that would disagree with that but I think most people would agree with you.

I appreciated your last paragraph there and wanted to also state that I have a big problem with the news outlets listing the PAULA citations alongside the sexual assaults and drug charges. It really cheapens the more serious offenses in an effort to arm the "we hate Iowa athletics crowd". (comprised of DB Iowa State fans and pretentious nerdy types.)

 

[smoot27]

In a word "yes".

There is a segment on these boards that is hyper religious that would disagree with that but I think most people would agree with you.

I appreciated your last paragraph there and wanted to also state that I have a big problem with the news outlets listing the PAULA citations alongside the sexual assaults and drug charges. It really cheapens the more serious offenses in an effort to arm the "we hate Iowa athletics crowd". (comprised of DB Iowa State fans and pretentious nerdy types.)

So if you voice opposition to drug abuse you are "hyper-religious?" I think some people on this board just have higher standards for living and has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

 

[Jeebus]

So if you voice opposition to drug abuse you are "hyper-religious?" I think some people on this board just have higher standards for living and has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Easy there, Sparky. Nobody is advocating drug use. We're just not going to crucify the kid for it.

If you're not religious then that is just dandy. It is my opinion that many that want to "cast the first stone" are of the old testament persuasion. I could certainly be wrong.

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

Easy there, Sparky. Nobody is advocating drug use. We're just not going to crucify the kid for it.

If you're not religious then that is just dandy. It is my opinion that many that want to "cast the first stone" are of the old testament persuasion. I could certainly be wrong.

I am willing to bet that most of the people here have not engaged in hard-core drug use, and thus are able to cast those stones with a clean slate. I don't think you quite understand what that anaology means.

BTW, what does "Old teastament persuasion" mean? I doubt you are trying to say that Jews are judgemental, but in the context you placed it in, that is exactly what you said.

 

[JonDMiller]

Easy there, Sparky. Nobody is advocating drug use. We're just not going to crucify the kid for it.

If you're not religious then that is just dandy. It is my opinion that many that want to "cast the first stone" are of the old testament persuasion. I could certainly be wrong.

I am strong in my faith in Christ

I don't hate the kid, or like him any less. I am disappointed, to be sure. But he's a flawed person, like everyone is. I would certainly hope those that are Christians would not be casting stones, but there is hypocrisy in every group of people. Someone with the screen name of 'Jeebus' probably sits back and waits for easy pickins like this, is my guess.

Now, this commentary relates only to the aspects of forgiveness and surrounding themes. It has nothing to do with reporting on an issue or focusing on the program.

 

[smoot27]

Easy there, Sparky. Nobody is advocating drug use. We're just not going to crucify the kid for it.

If you're not religious then that is just dandy. It is my opinion that many that want to "cast the first stone" are of the old testament persuasion. I could certainly be wrong.

A society without judgement creates reckless behavior. Why do you think we have school shootings and other like events that were never heard of 50 years ago? We are at a point where spanking your kid is regarded as child abuse, yet fail to see the negative effects of watered down discipline and being tolerant of everything.

 

[GravyJones]

Are we expecting more from a college football team than we expect from ourselves?

Yes, which is a problem. We should expect higher standards for ourselves.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Easy there, Sparky. Nobody is advocating drug use. We're just not going to crucify the kid for it.

If you're not religious then that is just dandy. It is my opinion that many that want to "cast the first stone" are of the old testament persuasion. I could certainly be wrong.

Could you be a bit more of a snarky wise-*** next time? It didn't quite come through.

 

[SDK46]

This current Iowa FB team, the military, most any group you associate with, is a microcosm of society.

A bell curve if you will regarding behavior, choices. Constant poor poor choices on the left, a mix of typical good/poor choices in the middle, and constant perfect choices on the right.

To expect a shift to the right of the bell curve for the FB team, or any other sports team, is naive, and, for those of us looking in from 'normal' society, unfair.

So, to answer the OP's question, no, we should not expect 'more' from a bell-curve set of people who happen to wear shoulder pads. Cross-group-variability is always going to be there for any population.

 

[Jeebus]

I am willing to bet that most of the people here have not engaged in hard-core drug use, and thus are able to cast those stones with a clean slate. I don't think you quite understand what that anaology means.

BTW, what does "Old teastament persuasion" mean? I doubt you are trying to say that Jews are judgemental, but in the context you placed it in, that is exactly what you said.

Clean slate would mean that they are sinless. ( I'm sure you believe you yourself are sinless but it's obvious that hubris is something you could work on.)

I know what I said regarding the old testament. I'm sorry that my analogy was over your head. I'll try to use smaller words and more reality TV references. Old testament persuasion was more in reference to something like the Boers of South Africa that used the old testament to justify apartheid. The God of the old testament was quite a bit more vengeful than the God of the new testament. Wouldn't you agree? (I'm sure you won't as you like to argue 80shawkeye)

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

This current Iowa FB team, the military, any group you associate with, is a microcosm of society.

A bell curve if you well regarding behavior, choices. Poor poor choices on the left, typical good/poor choices in the middle, and perfect choices on the right.

To expect a shift to the right of the bell curve for the FB team, or any other sports team, is naive, and, for those of us looking in from 'normal' society, unfair.

So, to answer the OP's question, no, we should not expect 'more' from a bell-curve set of people. Variability is always going to be there.

Yet, when someone in this microcosm of Iowa football is accused of a serious crime, people ask for a halt on judgement, but if some guy up the street from you were arrested for drugs, you would want his *** cracking blocks.

You can't have it both ways. It is not a matter of expecting better from these football players, at least for me. What is gnawing my craw is that people are willing to rationalize it away (He's a kid, he had a rough upbringing, college kids do this all the time) because they have some kind of imaginary relationship with him because they are obsessed with football, whereas if any other kid were arrested for stashing weed, coke, and pills, they would not want such liencency, especially in their own community.

 

[Jeebus]

A society without judgement creates reckless behavior. Why do you think we have school shootings and other like events that were never heard of 50 years ago? We are at a point where spanking your kid is regarded as child abuse, yet fail to see the negative effects of watered down discipline and being tolerant of everything.

Good point. I agree with you in part.

I just have a hard time with the hysteria over alcohol usage at Iowa. People fail to realize that the drinking age was much lower just 25 years ago. To act like students drink more now than in the 70s and 80s is just ridiculous.

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

Clean slate would mean that they are sinless. ( I'm sure you believe you yourself are sinless but it's obvious that hubris is something you could work on.)

I know what I said regarding the old testament. I'm sorry that my analogy was over your head. I'll try to use smaller words and more reality TV references. Old testament persuasion was more in reference to something like the Boers of South Africa that used the old testament to justify apartheid. The God of the old testament was quite a bit more vengeful than the God of the new testament. Wouldn't you agree? (I'm sure you won't as you like to argue 80shawkeye)

So you do not understand the anaology then. Let me elucidate you.

In the story of Jesus and the adulteress, the Pharasees brought the condemned woman to Jesus and demanded that he punish her in accordance of the Law of Moses. Knowing that Jesus wouldn't allow the woman to be executed, they used it as a trap to prove Jesus was not the Messiah because he would not uphold Moses' law.

Jesus maid the men realize that those accusing the woman of sinning against God were themselves going unpunished for their sins against God, and that if they applied their standards for the woman to themselves, then they would be stoned as well.


The moral is not that you shouldn't rush to judgement, but that you shouldn't demand justice for crimes of which you yourself are guilty of. It is a story of facing your hypocracy, not withholding judgement.

No while I am certainly a sinner, I am not into hard core drugs. And I am not judging DJK for his sins against God. That's his deal, and no one accuses him but God. However, I am not a hypocrite in demanding that guys doing hard core drugs face punishment for their crimes and don't deserve my respect.

 

[Warhawks77]

I am strong in my faith in Christ

I don't hate the kid, or like him any less. I am disappointed, to be sure. But he's a flawed person, like everyone is. I would certainly hope those that are Christians would not be casting stones, but there is hypocrisy in every group of people. Someone with the screen name of 'Jeebus' probably sits back and waits for easy pickins like this, is my guess.

Great post Jon. I agree. I had a post out here titled "thanks DJK" that does state I will pray for him. I believe prayers are what DJK needs right now. Not so that he can play football on Sundays but so he can work through any issues that may burden him. We all keep our head down at times do to the weight of the burdens we shoulder. At times we forget to look up to make the right turn on the path of life. Point being, he made a mistake. Learning from it is his choice. When and if he decides, my prayers are there to help him along.

 

[TerminatorHawk]

Clearly, this thread has turned somewhere I don't think the OP had intended. Anyway, I will respond to the initial question: I was in a fraternity at Iowa. Certainly one of the more involved and active on campus. Full of really good guys, many of whom were accomplished high school athletes, just not big enough or fast enough to play at the Division 1 level.

I have thought about this many times: Let's just say for argument sake that there were 100 of us (honestly can't remember how many). In ANY given year during my time at the University, I guarantee there were a handful of Publix Intox charges, a handful of Public Urination charges, a couple Disorderly Conduct charges, a couple downtown skirmishes, at least one OWI, etc. I can't recall anything more serious than these but the "lesser" offenses were somewhat common.
I am well aware that having a scholarship brings a different level of responsbility, as it should. I just don't think that most of the players ( I knew and socialized with many of them) look at themselves "socially" as much different than the rest of the students. Generally speaking, they went to the same places, did many of the same things, and found the same amount of trouble: actaully probably less than the rest of the social student body.
Those are the facts, I will let the rest argue as to what that means or what it should mean.

 

[djk41]

While scholarship athletes are held to a higher standard, I feel that many posting these "holier than thou" sentiments forget how immature many of us were at age 18-23 years old. Add to that the fact that most of these athletes (walk-ons included) have been accustomed to a good amount of adulation from kids and adults for their athletics ability prior to coming to Iowa and continue to as BCS level athletes. For those that were not Division I athletes, you need to realize they are not like you. It won't be until well after their playing days are over that they will appreciate and truly know what a special thing they have. Hell, alot of non-high profile, non-athletes are cocky and feel invincible away from home for the first time in their lives in college. Add to that playing in front of 70,000 people every Saturday and you would have a hard time not feeling invincible.

DJK probably though he was untouchable. He is finding out the hard way is wasn't. He will learn from it.