Howe: Here We Are Again with Hawkeye Hoops

[RobHowe]

Good Not Good Enough for Some in Iowa Basketball Fandom

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/basketball/howe-here-we-are-again-with-hawkeye-hoops

 

[Northside Hawk]

Good Not Good Enough for Some in Iowa Basketball Fandom

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/basketball/howe-here-we-are-again-with-hawkeye-hoops

Look around our landscape. People change schools, jobs, investment strategies,, neighborhoods, cities etc etc like they change their clothes. If news is fifteen minutes old it's old news.

They think it works the same way with coaches. You just reiterated the point several of us keep trying to make ad nauseum, especially looking around the league (Minnesota, Nebraska, Illinois, Indiana, and OSU and Thad Matta wasn't even brought up)

Detractors who say those who support this are part of the problem should read this and take a good hard look around the league. It's the ultimate crapshoot to replace a coach.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Good Not Good Enough for Some in Iowa Basketball Fandom

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/basketball/howe-here-we-are-again-with-hawkeye-hoops

I agree Rob....firing Fran is not warranted based on his results and relative to where the program is at in the college basketball hierarchy.

But, I do think we have in all likelihood seen the best Fran has to offer. Fran has had Garza, KM....and he could not do squat with them when in most counted.

Recruiting wise, he puts together teams that has players playing out of position.

His teams generally play scared and timid when it most counts.

I think there is a 50-50 chance he could not coach a roster full of blue-chippers out of a wet paper bag in the NCAAs because of his horrid half-court defense and one-dimensional half-court offense.

I also agree, all we can do is hope somehow, some way, he has a revelation and gets a decent all-around team on the court come ready to play NCAA tournament time and gets a draw path that goes his way.

But, boy oh boy, it sure is frustrating. Has been frustrating for a long time.

 

[STILLBUSTER]

WOW - GREAT start to the thread with 2 REALLY good posts!

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Honestly, if Notre Dame had any serious interest, and the McCaffery family had any serious interest in return, that would also be another out. The University could save face and not look like the bad guy (like the Mr. Davis situation, not that they are firing him or anything). It would be similar to Alford bolting to New Mexico....only difference is the program is in better shape than what Alford left Lickliter.

I don't think the Notre Dame thing is going to happen though.....and really....why would Fran leave Iowa? He had it made.... long term middling results are enough here with the donor base and his boss.

As I have said before, I believe Fran's biggest accomplishment at Iowa was rebuilding Iowa back to a competitive program. He should be commended for that and personally thanked by Hawkeye Fans.

Fran's resume suggests that is what he does....rebuilds programs. But, he has shown he is not the guy that is going to seriously compete for regular season titles and long NCAA runs.

If the NIL card is being played now....then we should start seeing significant results quickly. If that does not work, after that, what then is going to be the excuse?

Again, I think it would be a mistake to fire the guy and it would be similar to another Mr. Davis situation. But, I still believe Mr. Davis>Fran McCaffery. Mr. Davis NCAA results are definitively better than Fran's.

But, that should not stop the media or fan base for putting on the heat. Something is wrong when you have players like Garza and KM and you can't get out of the first weekend. Something is wrong when your team looks like old Mike Tyson....gassed after the third round.....to end regular seasons.

Even a blind squirl finds a nut every once and awhile.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Honestly, if Notre Dame had any serious interest, and the McCaffery family had any serious interest in return, that would also be another out. The University could save face and not look like the bad guy (like the Mr. Davis situation, not that they are firing him or anything). It would be similar to Alford bolting to New Mexico....only difference is the program is in better shape than what Alford left Lickliter.

I don't think the Notre Dame thing is going to happen though.....and really....why would Fran leave Iowa? He had it made.... long term middling results are enough here with the donor base and his boss.

As I have said before, I believe Fran's biggest accomplishment at Iowa was rebuilding Iowa back to a competitive program. He should be commended for that and personally thanked by Hawkeye Fans.

Fran's resume suggests that is what he does....rebuilds programs. But, he has shown he is not the guy that is going to seriously compete for regular season titles and long NCAA runs.

If the NIL card is being played now....then we should start seeing significant results quickly. If that does not work, after that, what is going to be the excuse?

The thing I don't look forward to for if/when Fran leaves (especially if it's now) is the mass transferring and decommiting of players. That'd make for some immediate uncertainty that I don't prefer to have anyway. I would think most fans wouldn't either if they really thought about it. But anything is possible. Don't get me wrong we could use an influx of some impact guys but we don't want the whole roster turned over or lose out on some of the recruits we have coming in.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

The thing I don't look forward to for if/when Fran leaves (especially if it's now) is the mass transferring and decommiting of players. That'd make for some immediate uncertainty that I don't prefer to have anyway. I would think most fans wouldn't either if they really thought about it. But anything is possible. Don't get me wrong we could use an influx of some impact guys but we don't want the whole roster turned over or lose out on some of the recruits we have coming in.

That would certainly be a risk to him leaving. Can't argue that..........but if NIL is a better situation for Iowa.....like Rob has mentioned......one would think the coach could buy himself a decent team.

We could probably afford to lose some of these guys.

Ulis (largely useless with some flashes here and there)
Mulvey (Apparently can't beat out Rebraca?)
Big O (This is a guy I actually was sad to see go and was happy to see come back, but could not beat out Rebraca?)

Guys I think we are at risk of losing because I don't think they look happy and maybe see the writing on the wall with Harding coming in (not that it will happen). I hope not though.
Bowen
Perkins

 

[longtimer]

Good Not Good Enough for Some in Iowa Basketball Fandom

https://www.si.com/college/iowa/basketball/howe-here-we-are-again-with-hawkeye-hoops

the whole thing is somewhat moot. Fran is not going to be fired and I don't expect him to retire and he is not going to be lured away by Notre Dame. He will likely be at Iowa for several more years.
For those of us who would like a change I realize there are risks involved but there are also potential gains. For the Licklighters Dick Shultzs and Alfords there have been Ralph Miller, George Ravling Tom Davis and Lute Olsen. Fran has had 4 tournament victories over the likes of Temple Cinncy the mighty Grand Canyon and the other escapes me. No regular season championships, one tournament championship (his high water mark) and a tournament record that draws more than a few negative impressions on a national level.

McCaffrey hasn't done a terrible job and he hasn't done a great job. I just wonder how many Big Ten teams would he still be coaching with his record?

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Look around our landscape. People change schools, jobs, investment strategies,, neighborhoods, cities etc etc like they change their clothes. If news is fifteen minutes old it's old news.

They think it works the same way with coaches. You just reiterated the point several of us keep trying to make ad nauseum, especially looking around the league (Minnesota, Nebraska, Illinois, Indiana, and OSU and Thad Matta wasn't even brought up)

Detractors who say those who support this are part of the problem should read this and take a good hard look around the league. It's the ultimate crapshoot to replace a coach.

Yes and No.

13 years isn't exactly "15 minutes", metaphorically speaking. The average tenure of a college basketball coach is between 5-9 years, one piece put it at 6.9 years. Fran is nearly double that. There are a surprising number of coaches with long tenures. (this piece is 2017, but likely still valid) https://herosports.com/longest-tenured-coaches-division-1-mens-basketball-byby/

Fran is in the sweet spot for longevity. He's the guy in your company that always does his job well, is honest and dependable and gets along great with everyone in the organization. But he'll never be your top performer. Can't fire a guy like that, but the metaphor is imperfect in that he doesn't put a ceiling on the organization... unless he's in upper management.

Fran will be around as long as he runs a clean program and stays over .500. Don't expect a Final Four (much less a Sweet 16) anytime soon.

 

[Fryowa]

Fran's resume suggests that is what he does....rebuilds programs. But, he has shown he is not the guy that is going to seriously compete for regular season titles and long NCAA runs.

None of bolded is Iowa. None of it. That's not a Fran thing, that's an Iowa's place in the world thing.

You, like most nebraska fans, can't see the forest for the trees and realize that this isn't the 80s anymore. You feel that Iowa should be able to recruit better and hire a blue chip coach. I say that because surely you understand the needle/haystack issue of hiring a non-proven, mid major guy, right?

That's not going to happen here. Recruiting is infinitely harder now than Mr Davis had it and this is not a destination job for top-level recruits nor coaches. The sooner you figure that out the soon...oh wait...you have your 1987 goggles super glued on your head. Never mind.

nebraska thought their coach wasn't good enough so they took a shot.

Then that one wasn't good enough so they took a gamble on a new one.

Then the next one was way worse so they took another million-to-one gamble.

Somehow (hmm) the next one was even worse yet so they took yet another shot (Surely this guy has to be better, because that's how probability works, right? And we're nebraska for god's sake, we should be able to hire a good coach!).

And then against all "odds" the next guy was worse yet again.

Better take another shot because if I flip a coin enough times it stops being 50/50 and I have to flip heads, right? That's how math works? Also might help to remember that the coach they had when they started musical chairs was better than any of the "shots" they ever took after that.

 

[Fryowa]

the whole thing is somewhat moot. Fran is not going to be fired and I don't expect him to retire and he is not going to be lured away by Notre Dame. He will likely be at Iowa for several more years.
For those of us who would like a change I realize there are risks involved but there are also potential gains. For the Licklighters Dick Shultzs and Alfords there have been Ralph Miller, George Ravling Tom Davis and Lute Olsen. Fran has had 4 tournament victories over the likes of Temple Cinncy the mighty Grand Canyon and the other escapes me. No regular season championships, one tournament championship (his high water mark) and a tournament record that draws more than a few negative impressions on a national level.

McCaffrey hasn't done a terrible job and he hasn't done a great job. I just wonder how many Big Ten teams would he still be coaching with his record?

Answer this honestly...

If someone came to you with a deck of 52 cards that you knew was a fair deck and said, "I will give you one draw, and if you pick the 6 of clubs I will give you a hundred million dollars cash, but if you end up with any other card I take ownership of your home and you have to buy it back from me," would you do it? Be honest.

And remember that coaching hires are WAY worse odds than 1:52

 

[HaydenHawk56]

None of bolded is Iowa. None of it. That's not a Fran thing, that's an Iowa's place in the world thing.

You, like most nebraska fans, can't see the forest for the trees and realize that this isn't the 80s anymore. You feel that Iowa should be able to recruit better and hire a blue chip coach. I say that because surely you understand the needle/haystack issue of hiring a non-proven, mid major guy, right?

That's not going to happen here. Recruiting is infinitely harder now than Mr Davis had it and this is not a destination job for top-level recruits nor coaches. The sooner you figure that out the soon...oh wait...you have your 1987 goggles super glued on your head. Never mind.

nebraska thought their coach wasn't good enough so they took a shot.

Then that one wasn't good enough so they took a gamble on a new one.

Then the next one was way worse so they took another million-to-one gamble.

Somehow (hmm) the next one was even worse yet so they took yet another shot (Surely this guy has to be better, because that's how probability works, right? And we're nebraska for god's sake, we should be able to hire a good coach!).

And then against all "odds" the next guy was worse yet again.

Better take another shot because if I flip a coin enough times it stops being 50/50 and I have to flip heads, right? That's how math works?

Did I say I wanted him fired. No, no, and no.

But at the same time, I think both can be true...are likely true. He should not be fired, but I think there is a ceiling on Fran. It is frustrating....like staying married because it is in the best interest of the kids. The girl with brains and boobs (the total package) is down the street....and you can't potentially do a damn thing about it because of the risk and moral factor.

Unless Fran wants out of the marriage, we are stuck.

And I will say this, ClownU makes me puke, but the D-bag looking coach over there got his team to the Sweet 16 pretty quickly.

So, if the excuse is now we did not have the NIL money in place to make this thing work....and now we do.....Fran should have significant results pretty quickly.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Answer this honestly...

If someone came to you with a deck of 52 cards that you knew was a fair deck and said, "I will give you one draw, and if you pick the 6 of clubs I will give you a hundred million dollars cash, but if you end up with any other card I take ownership of your home and you have to buy it back from me," would you do it? Be honest.

And remember that coaching hires are WAY worse odds than 1:52

I will answer this, you stay with Fran....but you don't really like it.....but you know those are shitty odds you can't screw with it.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Answer this honestly...

If someone came to you with a deck of 52 cards that you knew was a fair deck and said, "I will give you one draw, and if you pick the 6 of clubs I will give you a hundred million dollars cash, but if you end up with any other card I take ownership of your home and you have to buy it back from me," would you do it? Be honest.

And remember that coaching hires are WAY worse odds than 1:52

I love ya Fry, but this isn't the best metaphor/analogy.

 

[Fryowa]

I love ya Fry, but this isn't the best metaphor/analogy.

Tell me how it isn't, though. You can stay status quo...which we can do...or you can take an enormous gamble against enormous odds. Those odds are much more in favor of hiring a Lickliter than a guy who's going to outperform Fran.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

That would certainly be a risk to him leaving. Can't argue that..........but if NIL is a better situation for Iowa.....like Rob has mentioned......one would think the coach could buy himself a decent team.

We could probably afford to lose some of these guys.

Ulis (largely useless with some flashes here and there)
Mulvey (Apparently can't beat out Rebraca?)
Big O (This is a guy I actually was sad to see go and was happy to see come back, but could not beat out Rebraca?)

Guys I think we are at risk of losing because I don't think they look happy and maybe see the writing on the wall with Harding coming in (not that it will happen). I hope not though.
Bowen
Perkins

Yeah all those names I could see maybe leaving. Perkins leaving would be a huge kick to the nuts. That'd be surprising and unexpected I would think if he left. If Ulis leaves I don't think Bowen does. That's guaranteed mins for him and Dix to split up along with CM having left there's back court mins to be had for him. Now unless he's just not happy and wants to go closer to home that is what it is...

Mulvey and Big Josh haven't shown a heck of a lot in 2 yrs so losing either or both wouldn't be the worst thing ever.

 

[longtimer]

Answer this honestly...

If someone came to you with a deck of 52 cards that you knew was a fair deck and said, "I will give you one draw, and if you pick the 6 of clubs I will give you a hundred million dollars cash, but if you end up with any other card I take ownership of your home and you have to buy it back from me," would you do it? Be honest.

And remember that coaching hires are WAY worse odds than 1:52

Honestly If this was Fran's 5th year in the program I would not suggest a change this is 13 and yes I would be willing to see a change. We will be having this same conversation same time next year.

Really I questioned hiring Lute Olsen who was not a big time coach at the time Have to admit our AD at the time made some great decisions.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Tell me how it isn't, though. You can stay status quo...which we can do...or you can take an enormous gamble against enormous odds. Those odds are much more in favor of hiring a Lickliter than a guy who's going to outperform Fran.

I get your point about things being a bit of a gamble...but it's not all or nothing, nor is it completely blind.

 

[Fryowa]

Honestly If this was Fran's 5th year in the program I would not suggest a change this is 13 and yes I would be willing to see a change. We will be having this same conversation same time next year.

Really I questioned hiring Lute Olsen who was not a big time coach at the time Have to admit our AD at the time made some great decisions.

You didn’t answer my question