How long until Beth takes decisive action

[dahlhawk]

Fran has no money to get the talent here. That's the bottom line today. No Nike owners in Iowa or many billion dollar hedge fund managers. The big cats here pay for football. Get use to Iowa being a feeder program to the blue bloods or big $ schools. The sooner the players have a union and become employees of the schools the sooner players sign contracts and be expected to play the entire year and have some rules they have to follow.

 

[Teddy]

Eh. To be fair the program isn't floundring... They pretty much met the expectations for the yr going into it. They weren't expected to really make a run this yr by any means. They were a borderline NCAA team and they didn't quite make it. Now granted the whole BIG was down and it didn't look good to not have made it but never the less.

Now I do see where the future doesn't look great. Fran feels like a lame duck of sorts with 1 maybe 2 yrs left on his leash. No kid on the roster no kid on the way a contract that only goes out 3 more yrs is morphing into Tom Davis territory of being a lame duck. Between all that and our NIL situation recruiting is going to be tough and I don't see Fran getting another yr of grace of not going to the tourny. Right or wrong he'll be expected to do that and I'm not so sure they can.

If the CHA is mostly empty much of the yr and nobody is contributing to NIL and apathy just totally has set in next yr with a mediocre squad they'll be heat on Beth to maybe do something... I can't see next yr ending like this one at this point and Fran still being there. Cause they sure can't give him an extension and a raise which he should demand at this point of his deal. So there's a cross roads coming pretty soon. Will he pull an Alford and just leave on his own or make it tough on Beth? We'll see

We traded pretty far down at when Davis was dumped for ultimately Alford. Then when Lickliter arrived Iowa went to the bottom. What the hell was there to turn around Lickliter's teams. If Fran leaves what does Iowa have to offer a new coach, and what guarantees he's better than Fran. Nothing.

 

[Fryowa]

Nope. Fran should retire. It’s time.

If you think Fran is what's wrong with this program you're living under a rock.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

If you think Fran is what's wrong with this program you're living under a rock.

He's definitely not the problem. But he's also not really able to be the solution either. Now that he's older and his kids are gone with the other ones not coming Beth has a decision to make about his future. It's the Tom Davis thing all over again in the sense that having a coach on a contract for less then 4 yrs is problematic (Even though that seems like it shouldn't matter with how most kids aren't staying anywhere long enough to graduate) That said coaches can't recruit very well with that and other programs will use that as a negative recruiting tactic as if they need anything else to pile on with.

 

[Fryowa]

He's definitely not the problem. But he's also not really able to be the solution either. Now that he's older and his kids are gone with the other ones not coming Beth has a decision to make about his future. It's the Tom Davis thing all over again in the sense that having a coach on a contract for less then 4 yrs is problematic (Even though that seems like it shouldn't matter with how most kids aren't staying anywhere long enough to graduate) That said coaches can't recruit very well with that and other programs will use that as a negative recruiting tactic as if they need anything else to pile on with.

I'd need to hear someone come up with realistic hires who are available and who would want to come here...with enough certainty that firing a guy like Fran would be a safe bet. That's my thing...saying Fran isn't a good fit is one thing, but people saying he needs to go don't have a suggested plan for the future.

If you get a flat tire you can limp it into town at walking speed and hopefully not wreck anything. Might be a little late to your destination and piss your wife off, but you'll be there with relatively little harm and she'll get over it.

@ChosenChildren and people saying Fran needs to be fired want to take the rim off, throw it in the ditch and drive back to town on the brake rotor at 50 mph so they aren't late, tearing the car all to shit in the process and saying we'll figure it out later. Is it worth destroying your car to hopefully make it to a birthday party on time?

That's short-sighted and stupid. There has to be a viable succession in place or you're going to end up with Lick 2.0, which leads to Lick 3.0.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I'd need to hear someone come up with realistic hires who are available and who would want to come here...with enough certainty that firing a guy like Fran would be a safe bet. That's my thing...saying Fran isn't a good fit is one thing, but people saying he needs to go don't have a suggested plan for the future.

If you get a flat tire you can limp it into town at walking speed and hopefully not wreck anything. Might be a little late to your destination and piss your wife off, but you'll be there with relatively little harm and she'll get over it.

@ChosenChildren and people saying Fran needs to be fired want to take the rim off, throw it in the ditch and drive back to town on the brake rotor at 50 mph so they aren't late, tearing the car all to shit in the process and saying we'll figure it out later. Is it worth destroying your car to hopefully make it to a birthday party on time?

That's short-sighted and stupid. There has to be a viable succession in place or you're going to end up with Lick 2.0, which leads to Lick 3.0.

Totally get what you're saying. Being able to slide the next perfect fit right in is obviously ideal. I'm just not sure that's a practical thing they have the ability to wait for. Sure they can but if program craters with him what's it matter? Apathy has already crept in. Less fans are going to be showing up less NIL etc etc.

Yeah Calipari or anybody like him wouldn't consider coming here. However could Iowa roll the dice on an unproven homer like Jeff Horner, Dean Oliver, Matt Gatens? Those are just 3 young guys off the top of my head in coaching atm that'd take the job in a heart beat. Worst case they can get a fan favorite the fan base would be patient with.

I guess my point is the program may have to fall further before it can go back up anyway. I don't think there's enough duct tape to fix the leaking boat as it sits.

 

[Gander Hawk]

Totally get what you're saying. Being able to slide the next perfect fit right in is obviously ideal. I'm just not sure that's a practical thing they have the ability to wait for. Sure they can but if program craters with him what's it matter? Apathy has already crept in. Less fans are going to be showing up less NIL etc etc.

Yeah Calipari or anybody like him wouldn't consider coming here. However could Iowa roll the dice on an unproven homer like Jeff Horner, Dean Oliver, Matt Gatens? Those are just 3 young guys off the top of my head in coaching atm that'd take the job in a heart beat. Worst case they can get a fan favorite the fan base would be patient with.

I guess my point is the program may have to fall further before it can go back up anyway. I don't think there's enough duct tape to fix the leaking boat as it sits.

Where's the falling? They hadn't been to a Sweet 16 since Mr. Davis's final season and that was a surprising event. He's recruiting well and finishing in the top half of the league with fewer resources, and salary, than most of his competitors. I think the athletic department could do a lot to bring some fan enthusiasm to the program.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Where's the falling? They hadn't been to a Sweet 16 since Mr. Davis's final season and that was a surprising event. He's recruiting well and finishing in the top half of the league with fewer resources, and salary, than most of his competitors. I think the athletic department could do a lot to bring some fan enthusiasm to the program.

This yr they didn't go to the dance at all compared to the last few yrs where they have. That's trending down and it's hard to say what next yr will bring. Maybe they'll be better maybe not but nobody has delusions of grandeur of them being great or top 3rd of the league .

I don't think many took into consideration that this Iowa team was down during a yr where the BIG as a whole was pretty darn down too. In other normal yrs last yrs Iowa team woulda struggled even more then they did.

I agree the AD needs to get on the ball but there's no magic switch to flip that'll make things better it's multiple things that they'd have to do and it'll take time. I don't think Fran is long in the tooth for sticking around long enough for some of it to get done. I don't think Fran is planning on being here 2-3 yrs more tops and during that time things could go south pretty fast if things don't drastically change.

Granted a couple stud players can change things pretty fast too. That's not an impossible thing to stumble upon either so here's to hoping for that I guess.

 

[Siouxcityhawks]

Hey, a little off-topic but did Matt Cross visit Iowa today? He would be a great get.

 

[Hawkboys]

Where's the falling? They hadn't been to a Sweet 16 since Mr. Davis's final season and that was a surprising event. He's recruiting well and finishing in the top half of the league with fewer resources, and salary, than most of his competitors. I think the athletic department could do a lot to bring some fan enthusiasm to the program.

They could become the Goophers with a bad hire.

 

[CP87]

I'd need to hear someone come up with realistic hires who are available and who would want to come here...with enough certainty that firing a guy like Fran would be a safe bet. That's my thing...saying Fran isn't a good fit is one thing, but people saying he needs to go don't have a suggested plan for the future.

If you get a flat tire you can limp it into town at walking speed and hopefully not wreck anything. Might be a little late to your destination and piss your wife off, but you'll be there with relatively little harm and she'll get over it.

@ChosenChildren and people saying Fran needs to be fired want to take the rim off, throw it in the ditch and drive back to town on the brake rotor at 50 mph so they aren't late, tearing the car all to shit in the process and saying we'll figure it out later. Is it worth destroying your car to hopefully make it to a birthday party on time?

That's short-sighted and stupid. There has to be a viable succession in place or you're going to end up with Lick 2.0, which leads to Lick 3.0.

Tossing out some hypotheticals...

Could Darian DeVries have been that guy had Iowa decided to head-hunt him instead of WVU? Or would he have hit the same ceiling as Fran?

Not suggesting this as a solution, but I am curious: what would Bluder be able to do with a 5-year run in the program?

 

[Northside Hawk]

The last two classes are among the best Iowa's had since the Raveling days.

I will always insist that Davis early recruiting classes were strong, especially if you consider transfers as part of those classes, but a lot of things went wrong. Bad injuries, academic casualties, tragic accidents.

The class that included Settles, Kingsbury, and transfer Andre Woolridge was up there with anything Raveling recruited and that was half a dozen years into Tom's Iowa career. But he would soon miss on, or not even bother to recruit, elite in state talent and it led to a perception issue that dogs him to this day. But even at the end he was getting players like Ricky Davis and transfers like Sam Okey. Davis had a longer and more productive NBA career than any of Raveling's darlings including Marble, Gamble and BJ.

 

[trj]

I will always insist that Davis early recruiting classes were strong, especially if you consider transfers as part of those classes, but a lot of things went wrong. Bad injuries, academic casualties, tragic accidents.

The class that included Settles, Kingsbury, and transfer Andre Woolridge was up there with anything Raveling recruited and that was half a dozen years into Tom's Iowa career. But he would soon miss on, or not even bother to recruit, elite in state talent and it led to a perception issue that dogs him to this day. But even at the end he was getting players like Ricky Davis and transfers like Sam Okey. Davis had a longer and more productive NBA career than any of Raveling's darlings including Marble, Gamble and BJ.

Missing out on Raef Lafrentz was the killer from a perception standpoint. He was never able to recover from that and who knows if Nick Colision would have been a Hawk if TD’s contract was renewed.

I get your point, but that 86-87 roster was stacked for TD to bring his system in and have success. Even without the bad injuries, academic casualties and tragic accidents, TD would never come close to having a roster that he inherited in 86-87.

 

[oldhawk12]

I will always insist that Davis early recruiting classes were strong, especially if you consider transfers as part of those classes, but a lot of things went wrong. Bad injuries, academic casualties, tragic accidents.

The class that included Settles, Kingsbury, and transfer Andre Woolridge was up there with anything Raveling recruited and that was half a dozen years into Tom's Iowa career. But he would soon miss on, or not even bother to recruit, elite in state talent and it led to a perception issue that dogs him to this day. But even at the end he was getting players like Ricky Davis and transfers like Sam Okey. Davis had a longer and more productive NBA career than any of Raveling's darlings including Marble, Gamble and BJ.

You didn’t just say that. Not in the same stratosphere. Bj, roy and Eddie alone are more than any class tom recruited. Also, a total of 14 guys played professionally on the 86-87 team recruited by Rav

 

[Teddy]

Missing out on Raef Lafrentz was the killer from a perception standpoint. He was never able to recover from that and who knows if Nick Colision would have been a Hawk if TD’s contract was renewed.

I get your point, but that 86-87 roster was stacked for TD to bring his system in and have success. Even without the bad injuries, academic casualties and tragic accidents, TD would never come close to having a roster that he inherited in 86-87.

LaFrentz was never coming to Iowa. A good analogy. Some coached turn LaFrentz's father down. If you recall he showed up in a Beat Iowa shirt in Dr. Davis' final season during the NCAA. However, Nick Collison was coming to Iowa...until we fired our career leading coach. Don't forget future NBA player Matt Bullard. Career really retarded by injuries. He came back to Iowa and was very good, until injured. Davis was a good recruiter. The "Davis couldn't recruit" is a myth that the people who wanted to replace created to first justify the termination and later to escape reminder of the insane decision to terminate Dr. Davis, not the obvious disaster that followed.​

 

[Teddy]

You didn’t just say that. Not in the same stratosphere. Bj, roy and Eddie alone are more than any class tom recruited. Also, a total of 14 guys played professionally on the 86-87 team recruited by Rav

Lohaus-Olson recruits
Eddie-brief NBA career.
BJ-very good NBA career NBA career.
Roy-brief NBA career.
Bill Jones-brief NBA career.
Kevin Gamble-good NBA career.
Leslie Jepsen-brief NBA career.
Gerry Wright-joined the Air Force after college.
Kent Hill-think he went the NFL route, albeit briefly

Who else? You're into the walk ons at 14. Don't think the Vanilla Gorilla ever played in the NBA.

You know, George never recruited like that at Washington State or USC. But he caught lightning in a bottle for Iowa.

Then we hired a coach the knew what to do with all that talent, and he did a lot with those guys.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Lohaus-Olson recruits
Eddie-brief NBA career.
BJ-very good NBA career NBA career.
Roy-brief NBA career.
Bill Jones-brief NBA career.
Kevin Gamble-good NBA career.
Leslie Jepsen-brief NBA career.
Gerry Wright-joined the Air Force after college.
Kent Hill-think he went the NFL route, albeit briefly

Who else? You're into the walk ons at 14. Don't think the Vanilla Gorilla ever played in the NBA.

You know, George never recruited like that at Washington State or USC. But he caught lightning in a bottle for Iowa.

Then we hired a coach the knew what to do with all that talent, and he did a lot with those guys.

There is no one else. Moe was drafted but never played an NBA game.

Thing is we will never know how good Ray Thompson, Rodell Davis, Michael Ingram, or Chris Street could have ended up being.

He never backs up his rants with facts. When he does they are inaccurate, like this one. When I pointed out about five years ago that Kirk's teams had a higher scoring average than Hayden's (certainly no longer true) he about lost it. He then tried to paint some ridiculous picture that Hayden's points counted more more because they were scored with more style than Kirk's.

 

[Fryowa]

You didn’t just say that. Not in the same stratosphere. Bj, roy and Eddie alone are more than any class tom recruited. Also, a total of 14 guys played professionally on the 86-87 team recruited by Rav

Ridiculous post. You're just plain making shit up.

 

[Teddy]

Ricky Davis probably scored the most of any ex-Hawkeye in the NBA since Fred Brown and John Johnson.

The 14th guy on that roster was a walk on, so we know it wasn't 14. The actual number was 8 and that was fantastic without hyperbole.

 

[trj]

Ricky Davis probably scored the most of any ex-Hawkeye in the NBA since Fred Brown and John Johnson.

The 14th guy on that roster was a walk on, so we know it wasn't 14. The actual number was 8 and that was fantastic without hyperbole.

The point remains the same, TD never came close to having a roster that he inherited in 86-87. Yeah, it was fun to see TD make guys like Kent McCausland into serviceable B1G players, but for every Ryan Bowen, it felt like we were getting five Ryan Luershman.

Even though the Alford era didn’t work…I don’t feel guilty for wanting TD out.