Hoosier BBall Forum - Parallels this Forum

Indiana's program was in much worse shape than Iowa's.

Indiana at least has hope with the Crean as a coach and the recruiting classes they have because they have at least beaten a/some good teams and have been competetive.

Remember, Indiana expects to be good. Many Iowa fans, these days, don't expect as much. There are huge differences in expectations between the two programs. Indiana's fans want wins; Iowa's fans are willing to give Lickliter a passa few wins. Indiana fans expect to go the NCAA; Iowa fans would be happy if Iowa got close to going to the NIT or even got out of the basement of the Big 10 (that would show some improvement). Indiana wants to win a conference championship; Iowa wants to somehow get to .500 and they will be happy as clams.

So you see although the boards SOUND similar, the expectations between the fans on the boards are much different.
 
NewMexHawk said:
Indiana's program was in much worse shape than Iowa's.

Indiana at least has hope with the Crean as a coach and the recruiting classes they have because they have at least beaten a/some good teams and have been competetive.

Remember, Indiana expects to be good. Many Iowa fans, these days, don't expect as much. There are huge differences in expectations between the two programs. Indiana's fans want wins; Iowa's fans are willing to give Lickliter a passa few wins. Indiana fans expect to go the NCAA; Iowa fans would be happy if Iowa got close to going to the NIT or even got out of the basement of the Big 10 (that would show some improvement). Indiana wants to win a conference championship; Iowa wants to somehow get to .500 and they will be happy as clams.

So you see although the boards SOUND similar, the expectations between the fans on the boards are much different.
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Its a shock you might think such a thing NewMexHawk....~sarcasm~ Anybody who had visited the BB forum more than once, knows where you stand on every issue related to Iowa BB........b!tch, p!ss, moan, repeat, b!tch, p!ss, moan, repeat, b!tch, p!ss, moan, repeat.........and the cycle continues.
 
deanvogs said:
Its a shock you might think such a thing NewMexHawk....~sarcasm~ Anybody who had visited the BB forum more than once, knows where you stand on every issue related to Iowa BB........b!tch, p!ss, moan, repeat, b!tch, p!ss, moan, repeat, b!tch, p!ss, moan, repeat.........and the cycle continues.
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Because Iowa basketball has been going soooo well. How could anyone have the audacity to be critical?

Our expectaions for this program couldn't be lower. Indiana's fan base, while just as upset/dissapoitned as the Iowa fan base, is upset becasue they have higher expectations.

Currently these programs are going in opposite directions. We're still heading towards bottom, Indiana is through the valley and on the way up. To point that out isn't p!ssing and moaning, it's an observation. I, along with many others, happen to agree with that observation.
 
tubahawk said:
Because Iowa basketball has been going soooo well. How could anyone have the audacity to be critical?

Our expectaions for this program couldn't be lower. Indiana's fan base, while just as upset/dissapoitned as the Iowa fan base, is upset becasue they have higher expectations.

Currently these programs are going in opposite directions. We're still heading towards bottom, Indiana is through the valley and on the way up. To point that out isn't p!ssing and moaning, it's an observation. I, along with many others, happen to agree with that observation.
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I wasn't talking to you Tubahawk, and not all of the negative things discussed about Iowa BB are uncalled for at all. Have you bothered to read Newmexhawks post? ALL, and I mean ALL basketball post just b!tch, p!ss, and moan. Even positive threads that are started he chimes in and does his thing.
 
"Currently these programs are going in opposite directions. We're still heading towards bottom, Indiana is through the valley and on the way up. To point that out isn't p!ssing and moaning, it's an observation. I, along with many others, happen to agree with that observation. "

How can you justify this program is heading towards a bottom? We have already hit bottom, but there are some positive things that lead me to believe we are headed in a better direction. Our recruiting class for next year is looking to be pretty solid and the team is playing better right now than it did earlier in the year. NewMexHawk has it out for Lickliter for some reason, but there is reason to believe Lick can get it done......but he better do it quick, because the clock is ticking.
 
knighthawk13 said:
How can you justify this program is heading towards a bottom? We have already hit bottom,
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I thought we were at the bottom a week ago. Then our starting PG gets busted for alcohol (again) and is out indefinitely.

We do have a promising recruiting class coming in 2010 but in the meantime we have a very tough Big 10 schedule ahead of us, before we get to 2010. (And I'm not even taking into account possible defections at year's end).

I fear we are not at the bottom yet.
 
I watched the Indiana-Maryland game a couple weeks ago. Indiana lost the game but their arena was full and the student section was loud and on their feet most of the game. The difference between Indiana fans and Iowa fans is that they know their team has an upside and will improve. With Iowa who knows?
 
Not everything I say is negative...much of what I say is though. There just is not a lot of good to say about Iowa bb is there when compared to other programs these days is there. I like some of the Iowa players. With the right coach Iowa could have a good team (of course it would take a coach that can also recruit a few extra players).

After listening and watching Iowa bb for more than 50 years, it is disgusting what Lickliter has done to this program. And believe it or not, I am a very positive person...just not with Iowa BB these days.

When I lived in Iowa City for 20 years, I had season tickets, couldn't wait for games, got together with friends to watch games. When I was a kid, I used to curl up on a couch and listen to games on a transistor radio with all the static. When I was 16, we used to take my folks car and drive 70 miles to IC to watch games and they never found out, even to this day. I love Iowa BB...

The state of this program just pisses me off to no end and all this coach does is make excuses about playing teams that are so tough that other Iowa teams would have kicked the hell out of. Excuses about how the kids can't learn the system. Excuses about this and that. When are we going to hear, "Folks, I just have NOT done the job at Iowa that I was paid to do." All we hear is, "...it gets darker before it gets light..." and more players transfer because of Lickliter and (or) his system. He comes to Iowa with no clue what it will take to win a conference championship...he brings three assistants with no recruiting experience and it has been telling.

Like the media has said, "lickliter has been getting his teeth kicked in by opposing Big 10 coaches and it doesn't look like it is going to stop anytime soon."

So am I upset about the state of Iowa bb, yes. And the sooner Lickliter is gone the better. The man is way in over his head and is taking Iowa fans for a ride.
 
"Not everything I say is negative...much of what I say is though. There just is not a lot of good to say about Iowa bb is there when compared to other programs these days is there. I like some of the Iowa players. With the right coach Iowa could have a good team (of course it would take a coach that can also recruit a few extra players)."

I haven't read one positive post, but I guess I'll take you for your word. I guess the biggest issue I have is that you think this program wasn't in shambles before Lick arrived. That is simply not true. Alford was bailed out by Iowans who loved The U of I. If it weren't for Horner and Brunner, Alford would have one NCAA appearance at Iowa. This program was going nowhere, yet you consistently post about how Alford wasn't that bad. If Lick is repsonsible for what is going on now (and he is), then Alford was responsible for Northwestern State.
 
koolhandlick said:
I watched the Indiana-Maryland game a couple weeks ago. Indiana lost the game but their arena was full and the student section was loud and on their feet most of the game. The difference between Indiana fans and Iowa fans is that they know their team has an upside and will improve. With Iowa who knows?
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The reason Indiana fans were in the stands, is because they support Indiana BB. They averaged nearly 17,000 in attendance last year with only 6 wins. That team was awful, probably even worse than this years Iowa Hawkeyes. Teams with Indiana's tradition, the fans are p!ssed off when they win 19 and don't make the tourney, winning 6 just isn't supposed to happen to them. They weren't coming to the arena because they "saw progress" last year, they came to support Indiana BB, something that Iowa fans are not willing to do. I would argue that they aren't coming this year because they see progress, as they are 5-6, and are probably going to struggle to win 10 or 12 games this year. Are they really a team that is going to get to the tourney next year? I have some serious doubts about that, and I'm sure their fans do also. They come out to support the team, because that is what they do as fans.
 
I agree 100% that Iowa fans are not acting like "true fans"! "True fans" don't just show up when the team is winning. "True fans" understand they have a role in recruiting and maintaining the current players not running them off with criticism. If everyone wants to argue that the negative fans are the minority and only show up on the internet then where is the home crowd at CHA? Come on Hawk fans. Pull your heads out and support these players! It is pretty obvious that the true difference between Indiana basketball fans and Iowa basketball fans is exactly that. Indiana has "true fans"! That hurts me to say it but it is playing out true.
 
knighthawk13 said:
"Not everything I say is negative...much of what I say is though. There just is not a lot of good to say about Iowa bb is there when compared to other programs these days is there. I like some of the Iowa players. With the right coach Iowa could have a good team (of course it would take a coach that can also recruit a few extra players)."

I haven't read one positive post, but I guess I'll take you for your word. I guess the biggest issue I have is that you think this program wasn't in shambles before Lick arrived. That is simply not true. Alford was bailed out by Iowans who loved The U of I. If it weren't for Horner and Brunner, Alford would have one NCAA appearance at Iowa. This program was going nowhere, yet you consistently post about how Alford wasn't that bad. If Lick is repsonsible for what is going on now (and he is), then Alford was responsible for Northwestern State.
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I keep hearing how Alford left this program in shambles. And I agree he left it in poor shape. But how can anyone continue to blame Alford three years into TL's tenure. Get real. Nothing takes three years to repair in college basketball. The only way this would be true was if Alford would have left us in NCAA probation and we would have less scholarships to work with. That wasn't the case. Heck, he left us with most of the recruiting class he had locked up. That's a luxury he wasn't afforded when he replaced Davis.

"If it weren't for Horner and Brunner, Alford would have one NCAA appearance at Iowa."

What the hell does this quote mean? Are you saying that players like Hansen, Mikey, and Haluska had nothing to do with those successful seasons? Or are you saying Alford doesn't get credit for that coaching job just because it was mostly "Iowa boys" on the team? I would find the latter funny since Iowa fans had previously been screaming for us to lock down the state when the local talent was going elsewhere.

I will say this one more time. Alford did not destroy Iowa basketball. We just regressed under his tenure. But at no time under his watch were we as pathetic as we are right now.
 
Like the media has said, "lickliter has been getting his teeth kicked in by opposing Big 10 coaches and it doesn't look like it is going to stop anytime soon."

What is the origin of what sounds like a highly dubious quote to me? I too have been watching the Hawks for half a century, and would suggest our NewMexHawk to just stick with Alford down there in Apache country. Throwing out stuff like this is just low class desperation to trash a guy who was coach of the year not so long ago, and clearly HAS NOT forgotten what he did to receive that honor. Frankly this forum disgusts me more often than not.
 
burky247 said:
I keep hearing how Alford left this program in shambles. And I agree he left it in poor shape. But how can anyone continue to blame Alford three years into TL's tenure. Get real. Nothing takes three years to repair in college basketball. The only way this would be true was if Alford would have left us in NCAA probation and we would have less scholarships to work with.

I will say this one more time. Alford did not destroy Iowa basketball. We just regressed under his tenure. But at no time under his watch were we as pathetic as we are right now.
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Absolutely correct. Alford didn't leave us in great shape, but we have regressed SINCE ALFORD LEFT.

Alford's final year:
17-14 (9-8)

Lickiter's tenure so far:
Year 1: 13-19 (6-13)
Year 2: 15-17 (5-14)
Year 3: 5-7 (?-?)

Year 2, we had a worse conference record than the first year, and this year's team will be lucky to match the 5 wins that we had a year ago. That is regression. How does this continue to be Alford's fault?

After his first season, Alford's teams had a winning record each and every one of the last 7 years he was our coach.

Lickliter is yet to have a single winning record, and it's looking pretty certain that he will be 0-3. Again - Alford's fault?
 
jardinero said:
Throwing out stuff like this is just low class desperation to trash a guy who was coach of the year not so long ago, and clearly HAS NOT forgotten what he did to receive that honor.
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No, Lickliter has not forgotten how to coach. But this isn't the Horizon League. It's the BIG TEN. You have to recruit at a much higher level to be successful in the Big Ten than you do at a lower level. Why is this so hard to understand? Success at a mid-major (if you can even call the Horizon league a mid-major) doesn't automatically translate to a power conference.

And frankly, I could care less anymore would Lickliter accomplished at Butler. He is at IOWA now. Time for him to start producing.
 
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