Hit PSU where it hurts, not the region

[hawkfan340]

Wow, you really flipped the argument on me. So you go from arguing to shut down the entire university to now arguing to not shut down the football program. You just proved Thunderhawks point that you are a troll.

Shutting down the football program affects those that eat, breath, and sleep PSU football. You can still pay the coaching staff and the players can go other places. I don't know who all these "thousands of innocent people" are who rely on the money brought into the football program. That money goes back into their athletic department. Perhaps the swim team will have to wait on new uniforms, womens soccer will have to cut back on expenses, or maybe they will have to wait on getting D1 hockey. You cut the revenue from the football program you are impacting all the sports at Penn State. But the people and the students associated with those programs have other options and it is a fraction of those impacted than if you shut down the entire Penn State institution.

Each home football game brings in ___ millions of dollars for the local economy. Shutting down football effects the employment of the cleaning lady at Hotel XYZ, the guy who owns the local pizza parlor, the steel worker in Pittsburg that hoped to send his daughter on a scholly to PSU, and on and on. This then effects the convenience station from which they buy their gas, the landlord/bank to which they pay their rents/mortgage, the tax base to which they pay for the fire department, etc.

Shutting down football would have a devastating effect on the region, in which reside many people who pay little mind to PSU football if any at all. They're busy trying to live their lives, pay their bills, raise their kids, etc.

Some think the collateral damage caused by shutting down PSU football is worth it to prove their point. I respectfully disagree (although I've been severely tempted to disrespectfully disagree over recent days on this board.) I don't think such action will prove much of the point they are trying to make and I think it will adversely affect many innocent people, even going so far as to devastate some of them.

 

[ssckelley]

Each home football game brings in ___ millions of dollars for the local economy. Shutting down football effects the employment of the cleaning lady at Hotel XYZ, the guy who owns the local pizza parlor, the steel worker in Pittsburg that hoped to send his daughter on a scholly to PSU, and on and on. This then effects the convenience station from which they buy their gas, the landlord/bank to which they pay their rents/mortgage, the tax base to which they pay for the fire department, etc.

Shutting down football would have a devastating effect on the region, in which reside many people who pay little mind to PSU football if any at all. They're busy trying to live their lives, pay their bills, raise their kids, etc.

Some think the collateral damage caused by shutting down PSU football is worth it to prove their point. I respectfully disagree (although I've been severely tempted to disrespectfully disagree over recent days on this board.) I don't think such action will prove much of the point they are trying to make and I think it will adversely affect many innocent people, even going so far as to devastate some of them.

If this is what it takes to prevent something like this from happening again then I am ok with these sacrifices. Football should not be bigger than the institution and this message needs to be sent across the country from the SEC, Big12, B1G, to the Pac14. The money produced from football has been driving a culture that football rules everything. Football is just a game and these schools need to get back to being an institution for higher learning. If a cleaning lady has to relocate because she cannot get work in Happy Valley anymore then so be it. The money is still there, it does not vanish, but it gets spent on other forms of entertainment. While the pizza parlor guy loses revenue perhaps the local bowling alley has to expand due to extra business on Saturday nights. Perhaps a kid instead of working at a convenience store now gets a job at the Movie Theater. As far as the rest of the football money from tv revenues and such, perhaps more of it would get thrown Iowa's way instead of Penn State.

 

[nationalchamps]

I would actually enjoy watching PSU keep their football team with very limited scholarships, much like Boss said. Bascially give them enough to field a team but no more.

Having to watch their beloved program turn into Northwestern circa 1980s would be fantastic for all of the delusional fans.

The more I think about it the more I like this idea.

 

[ssckelley]

I would actually enjoy watching PSU keep their football team with very limited scholarships, much like Boss said. Bascially give them enough to field a team but no more.

Having to watch their beloved program turn into Northwestern circa 1980s would be fantastic for all of the delusional fans.

The more I think about it the more I like this idea.

Those delusional fans would still send their sons there to play football. Penn State will never turn into a mid 80s Northwestern as there is to much talent in PA & NJ. They would get the best football players with whatever scholarships you give them and they would probably get one of the best walk on group in the country. Keep in mind with all of these allegations going on and rumors of death penalty Penn State still has the #15 ranked recruiting class for 2013 with a majority of those recruits being from PA & NJ. The people over there are still in denial and they still think Penn State football is king.

 

[hawkfan33]

If this is what it takes to prevent something like this from happening again then I am ok with these sacrifices. Football should not be bigger than the institution and this message needs to be sent across the country from the SEC, Big12, B1G, to the Pac14. The money produced from football has been driving a culture that football rules everything. Football is just a game and these schools need to get back to being an institution for higher learning. If a cleaning lady has to relocate because she cannot get work in Happy Valley anymore then so be it. The money is still there, it does not vanish, but it gets spent on other forms of entertainment. While the pizza parlor guy loses revenue perhaps the local bowling alley has to expand due to extra business on Saturday nights. Perhaps a kid instead of working at a convenience store now gets a job at the Movie Theater. As far as the rest of the football money from tv revenues and such, perhaps more of it would get thrown Iowa's way instead of Penn State.

What's to say the death penalty would prevent it from happening again? Did SMU getting the death penalty prevent other schools from paying players again?

How many of you people arguing that "the culture" needs to change are also proponents of a playoff system? People want to have it both ways.

 

[BSpringsteen]

If this is what it takes to prevent something like this from happening again then I am ok with these sacrifices. Football should not be bigger than the institution and this message needs to be sent across the country from the SEC, Big12, B1G, to the Pac14. The money produced from football has been driving a culture that football rules everything. Football is just a game and these schools need to get back to being an institution for higher learning. If a cleaning lady has to relocate because she cannot get work in Happy Valley anymore then so be it. The money is still there, it does not vanish, but it gets spent on other forms of entertainment. While the pizza parlor guy loses revenue perhaps the local bowling alley has to expand due to extra business on Saturday nights. Perhaps a kid instead of working at a convenience store now gets a job at the Movie Theater. As far as the rest of the football money from tv revenues and such, perhaps more of it would get thrown Iowa's way instead of Penn State.

Easy to say from the cheap seats SSCKelley. Just saying.

 

[ssckelley]

So what you both are saying is football & money is bigger and more important? "We cannot punish the football program because they drive to much revenue into the community"! So they get a slap on the wrist and move on.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that got Penn State in trouble in the first place.

 

[BSpringsteen]

So what you both are saying is football & money is bigger and more important? "We cannot punish the football program because they drive to much revenue into the community"! So they get a slap on the wrist and move on.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that got Penn State in trouble in the first place.

Have you read anything I've written?

Is making them irrelevant, not allowing them to raise money or improve facilities, reducing scholarships, not allowing them on TV, not allowing them to play in bowl games for the foreseeable future a slap on the wrist?

No one is talking about a slap on the wrist, unless anything less than the death penalty is a slap on the wrist

What I am saying is that if you owned a hotel in State College, PA and had no interest in football beyond the fact that you could charge $500 per room for 7 nights a year, you just might feel very differently about the situation.

 

[hawkfan340]

If this is what it takes to prevent something like this from happening again then I am ok with these sacrifices. Football should not be bigger than the institution and this message needs to be sent across the country from the SEC, Big12, B1G, to the Pac14. The money produced from football has been driving a culture that football rules everything. Football is just a game and these schools need to get back to being an institution for higher learning.

I just don't think this will have much effect on preventing anything like this from happening again. I think the probability of a sexual abuse scandal/coverup like this occurring again are infinitesimally small.

I think the likelihood that a non-sexual scandal/coverup (say a pay for play type scandal) will occur in the future will not be materially affected by punishing PSU because people will categorize them in different ways to justify their actions in their own minds.

If a cleaning lady has to relocate because she cannot get work in Happy Valley anymore then so be it. The money is still there, it does not vanish, but it gets spent on other forms of entertainment. While the pizza parlor guy loses revenue perhaps the local bowling alley has to expand due to extra business on Saturday nights. Perhaps a kid instead of working at a convenience store now gets a job at the Movie Theater. As far as the rest of the football money from tv revenues and such, perhaps more of it would get thrown Iowa's way instead of Penn State.

Unfortunately, this is not how an economy works, neither in general nor when considering the effects to a localized area like central PA.

 

[JHHawk]

I agree that no one who is outraged at the powerful football culture at PSU or Bama or LSU after this PSU scandal can at the same time advocate for the move to a playoff system that will only make that culture even more powerful and lucrative.

People are saying that the football culture must change at PSU, and the death penalty is the way to do that....well,what about at OSU,Bama and the SEC? Is the ''football culture'' at those institutions any less toxic than at PSU? And fans actually want to turn up the volume on those football cultures by installing a playoff system?

Ridiculous. Anyone seriously concerned about the out of control athletic depts at colleges has to want to lower the volume by forgetting about this whole playoff/championship obsession,and at least going back to the pre-1998 system of bowl games and no formal title game. Reduce the money,and the football programs lose power.

 

[CAARHawk]

Here is the problem with people who just reduce the PSU problem to the sexual abuse scandal. The issue is a larger cultural concern in which football dictates university and law enforcement policy. The Vicky Triponey case shows how far past the sexual abuse case this issue goes.

However, even connected with the case, the fear of the janitors losing their jobs is another indication of how much the football program controlled all university policies.

 

[CAARHawk]

I agree that no one who is outraged at the powerful football culture at PSU or Bama or LSU after this PSU scandal can at the same time advocate for the move to a playoff system that will only make that culture even more powerful and lucrative.

People are saying that the football culture must change at PSU, and the death penalty is the way to do that....well,what about at OSU,Bama and the SEC? Is the ''football culture'' at those institutions any less toxic than at PSU? And fans actually want to turn up the volume on those football cultures by installing a playoff system?

Ridiculous. Anyone seriously concerned about the out of control athletic depts at colleges has to want to lower the volume by forgetting about this whole playoff/championship obsession,and at least going back to the pre-1998 system of bowl games and no formal title game. Reduce the money,and the football programs lose power.

Funny, I was having this discussion with my brother yesterday. I came to the (somewhat facetious) conclusion that the power schools should just have football changed to a non-scholarship for profit club sport. Just get rid of all eligibility rules and set it up as a semi-pro league.

 

[DuffMan]

whar jackie moon?

 

[ssckelley]

Unfortunately, this is not how an economy works, neither in general nor when considering the effects to a localized area like central PA.

If you really know how economy works then you would understand that taking away 7 football games a year for a couple of years is not going to ruin the local economy of central PA. Who cares if a hotel owner does not get to gouge people for $500 for each room 7 nights a year?

I will say this again, those suggesting that they not get the death penalty over this really are saying that football, money, and Joe Paterno's legacy is more important than the victims or the laws of our country. That attitude is exactly what got Penn State in trouble in the first place. In order to cure a drug addict you have to take away the drugs, football & Joe Paterno have been like a drug to these people and it needs to be taken away until this gets fixed. When you have a well known President covering up for a pedophile, the culture needs to be changed. When you got Janitors fearful of their jobs failing to report boys being sodomized, the culture needs to be changed. You don't change it by simply taking away a few scholarships or banning them from bowls.

Penn State does not deserve the right to have a chance to win another football game until this gets fixed. Do all these people associated with Penn State who are in denial even deserve to celebrate a football victory? How will you feel when the camera's zoom in on the Paterno's sitting in their cushy press box in comfort rooting for Penn State knowing they still think their father is a god?

Penn State football needs to go away for a while.

 

[hawkfan340]

Here is the problem with people who just reduce the PSU problem to the sexual abuse scandal. The issue is a larger cultural concern in which football dictates university and law enforcement policy. The Vicky Triponey case shows how far past the sexual abuse case this issue goes.

However, even connected with the case, the fear of the janitors losing their jobs is another indication of how much the football program controlled all university policies.

This is actually what I'm getting at. Giving PSU the death penalty will not change this culture, which is pervasive at many other college football hotbeds. The people that participate in/create this culture, say in Tuscaloosa AL, will continue on worshiping football and will see their worship as very different from what happened at State College because they don't have a pedophile in their midst. Giving PSU the death penalty will not change a thing in Alabama or anywhere else.

It will hurt a lot of people in Pennsylvania and elsewhere around the country however.

 

[hawkfan1319]

Rabble Rabble. Rabble.

 

[hawkfan340]

If you really know how economy works then you would understand that taking away 7 football games a year for a couple of years is not going to ruin the local economy of central PA.

You threw in the word "ruin" which has a variety of meanings. The impacts would be devastating and they would not be uniformly distributed among the populace. Innocent people losing their businesses/homes/etc. should concern you. Taking away that money would do this. If you debate that, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong.

Who cares if a hotel owner does not get to gouge people for $500 for each room 7 nights a year?

See above. Devastating the livelihood of innocent people should concern you.
Wrong + wrong <> right.

I will say this again, those suggesting that they not get the death penalty over this really are saying that football, money, and Joe Paterno's legacy is more important than the victims or the laws of our country.

Nope. I'm saying the death penalty will not add further care to the victims (in fact it will actually harm them financially), nor will it add protection to future victims in other parts of the country/world. It will harm many people at the university, a handful which deserve some form of justice along with many who do not.

That attitude is exactly what got Penn State in trouble in the first place. In order to cure a drug addict you have to take away the drugs, football & Joe Paterno have been like a drug to these people and it needs to be taken away until this gets fixed. When you have a well known President covering up for a pedophile, the culture needs to be changed. When you got Janitors fearful of their jobs failing to report boys being sodomized, the culture needs to be changed. You don't change it by simply taking away a few scholarships or banning them from bowls.

I agree that it would be great if the culture changed. Fortunately, the culture will change at PSU regardless of the death penalty. Unfortunately, the culture will not change at any other school regardless of the death penalty.

Penn State does not deserve the right to have a chance to win another football game until this gets fixed. Do all these people associated with Penn State who are in denial even deserve to celebrate a football victory? How will you feel when the camera's zoom in on the Paterno's sitting in their cushy press box in comfort rooting for Penn State knowing they still think their father is a god?

Penn State football needs to go away for a while.

You're broadbrushing a lot of people together that fall into different groups. Do the zealots and others who enabled this atrocity deserve whatever enjoyment they get from watching their team win at football? No, they do not. Does the random WR, P, QB deserve to be able to play football at the university where he committed himself? Yes, probably. Does the random ticket holder deserve to watch her alma mater with her friends and family? Yes, she probably does.

I don't think it good practice to punish lots of innocent people to get a few zealots.

 

[ssckelley]

I am not going to quote all of that. But in a nutshell you are saying that there no law that can be broke, no crime to serious, nothing that can ever happen to where you ever kill a football program. All because there is to much money involved. Never mind that this community you are afraid of hurting is rallying behind this insisting that Joe Paterno did no wrong.

Iowa City & Coralville businesses would not cease to exist if Iowa no longer had a football team. If there is a business that would close because of 7 Saturdays a year then it was not a good business to begin with.

 

[hawkfan340]

I am not going to quote all of that. But in a nutshell you are saying that there no law that can be broke, no crime to serious, nothing that can ever happen to where you ever kill a football program. All because there is to much money involved. Never mind that this community you are afraid of hurting is rallying behind this insisting that Joe Paterno did no wrong.

Iowa City & Coralville businesses would not cease to exist if Iowa no longer had a football team. If there is a business that would close because of 7 Saturdays a year then it was not a good business to begin with.

Nice work beating the **** out of that strawman.

 

[David79]

Just send some drones in and bomb the place already. No one should get out alive!