HawkeyeGameFilm: Defensive Analysis from Iowa's Open Practice

[CAARHawk]

please 'splain it to the forum.

I'll let an expert do this:

One example is that Tuck more often has to use a stance with his shoulders square to the line of scrimmage, rather than on a tilt. It’s more of a read stance, he says, allowing players to read and react but also slowing down their get-off to the quarterback. This fits into what Umenyiora calls “slow-playing,†a necessary tactic to keep the quarterback in front of you.

Ends are also less able to make inside moves, Umenyiora explained, because mobile quarterbacks will see that and break contain around the edge or roll out to extend the play. And linebacker/defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka said they have to pay more attention to the “integrity†of the rush, in contrast to relying on athletic ability.

“There needs to be a wall of four people moving to the quarterback at the same speed at all times, otherwise he’ll find that small lateral or vertical crease, and he’ll run through it,†Kiwanuka said. “You just can’t go out there and give your best move or try to beat the man in front of you. All four guys have to play against all five guys (on the offensive line) at the same time.â€

This is one reason more teams are moving to a 3-4 right now. Now Old Guy is right in that you need the right support from the rest of your team. But I would put more emphasis on the safeties than the corners. If you can force a certain read in the pistol or run option, it might help your safeties be more read than react.

 

[vosov]

I was hoping to see more players in the mix a SS & FS. Iowa really struggled at those spots last year. It doesn't look good that the young guys at those positions can't hang with the returning players that saw action last year.

This doesn't make sense since you seem to be talking about both Safety positions. Law is a returning player, and barely played. Lowdermilk is one of the young guys at the position, and was running with the 1's.

 

[olddude]

I'll let an expert do this:

One example is that Tuck more often has to use a stance with his shoulders square to the line of scrimmage, rather than on a tilt. It’s more of a read stance, he says, allowing players to read and react but also slowing down their get-off to the quarterback. This fits into what Umenyiora calls “slow-playing,” a necessary tactic to keep the quarterback in front of you.

Ends are also less able to make inside moves, Umenyiora explained, because mobile quarterbacks will see that and break contain around the edge or roll out to extend the play. And linebacker/defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka said they have to pay more attention to the “integrity” of the rush, in contrast to relying on athletic ability.

“There needs to be a wall of four people moving to the quarterback at the same speed at all times, otherwise he’ll find that small lateral or vertical crease, and he’ll run through it,” Kiwanuka said. “You just can’t go out there and give your best move or try to beat the man in front of you. All four guys have to play against all five guys (on the offensive line) at the same time.”

This is one reason more teams are moving to a 3-4 right now. Now Old Guy is right in that you need the right support from the rest of your team. But I would put more emphasis on the safeties than the corners. If you can force a certain read in the pistol or run option, it might help your safeties be more read than react.

Safeties and OLB's need to be ready to give chase, but the reason I say the corner has to get in and keep the wr between himself and the side line, is so that when the runner (qb) sees he has no where to go, he can not get an open shot to fling it out there. It works, BUT as I said your whole D needs to know their job and it depends on how your DE is going to play. It is just another way to screw with a read option run O, I am not saying use it all the time, but mixed in with playing contain and a well disguised blitz or two, you have some options and can be more unpredictable.

 

[Foval21]

Safeties and OLB's need to be ready to give chase, but the reason I say the corner has to get in and keep the wr between himself and the side line, is so that when the runner (qb) sees he has no where to go, he can not get an open shot to fling it out there. It works, BUT as I said your whole D needs to know their job and it depends on how your DE is going to play. It is just another way to screw with a read option run O, I am not saying use it all the time, but mixed in with playing contain and a well disguised blitz or two, you have some options and can be more unpredictable.

No coach would ever tell their cb in run support to get inside the wr. This is counterproductive to their job. They want to shed the wr block but want to stay outside the play to force it back inside. By being inside a wr if the qb can get to the outside he is gone because the wr would be able to block the cb to give the qb the outside edge.

Typically in a zone read you want them to hand it off instead of keep as the keep goes to the open field which is where the offense has its biggest advantage as you get 1 on 1 tackler vs runner situations. And that is always an advantage to the runner.

 

[olddude]

No coach would ever tell their cb in run support to get inside the wr. This is counterproductive to their job. They want to shed the wr block but want to stay outside the play to force it back inside. By being inside a wr if the qb can get to the outside he is gone because the wr would be able to block the cb to give the qb the outside edge.

Typically in a zone read you want them to hand it off instead of keep as the keep goes to the open field which is where the offense has its biggest advantage as you get 1 on 1 tackler vs runner situations. And that is always an advantage to the runner.

I am not going to argue. Trust me I know wtf I am talking about. I watched all of about 5 min of MN's spring game last night and they ran the D to perfection on this exact same play. Gain of a big fat 0 and if it were live the qb would have gotten smoked. The corner tries to pin the wr so no scramble pass can be made. Hard to throw a fade to the line when your running and if the qb has that good of an arm, they are not going to be running anyway. It is the olb or safeties job to get to the qb. You need speed and good open field fundamentals to do it. Like I said watch mn's game and it's in there and done very well. I do not know what part of the game I saw, so sorry, but trust me it's in there and played perfectly.

 

[Foval21]

I am not going to argue. Trust me I know wtf I am talking about. I watched all of about 5 min of MN's spring game last night and they ran the D to perfection on this exact same play. Gain of a big fat 0 and if it were live the qb would have gotten smoked. The corner tries to pin the wr so no scramble pass can be made. Hard to throw a fade to the line when your running and if the qb has that good of an arm, they are not going to be running anyway. It is the olb or safeties job to get to the qb. You need speed and good open field fundamentals to do it. Like I said watch mn's game and it's in there and done very well. I do not know what part of the game I saw, so sorry, but trust me it's in there and played perfectly.

Your method works if you play it perfectly. But if you screw up you will give up a huge play because on the outside there isn't any help. If you screw up on the inside you typically have help. This is where the bulk of the players are making it a lower risk to keep them inside rather than outside. Your theory is playing into what the offensive zone read teams want, to get to the outside. That isn't smart. They aren't looking to methodically march the field they are looking for 1 big play.

I will use the redskins as an example. Alfred morris is a very good rb. Every team would rather morris run up the middle on the zone read rather than let rg3 get to the outside. Your theory says you would rather let rg3 go to the outside.

 

[olddude]

Your method works if you play it perfectly. But if you screw up you will give up a huge play because on the outside there isn't any help. If you screw up on the inside you typically have help. This is where the bulk of the players are making it a lower risk to keep them inside rather than outside. Your theory is playing into what the offensive zone read teams want, to get to the outside. That isn't smart. They aren't looking to methodically march the field they are looking for 1 big play.

I will use the redskins as an example. Alfred morris is a very good rb. Every team would rather morris run up the middle on the zone read rather than let rg3 get to the outside. Your theory says you would rather let rg3 go to the outside.

I think what your not understanding is the corner is just staying between the running qb and the wr. You want to push the wr right to the line and stay inbetween the two. Most of the time when you force the O to do all this (by crashing the DE) there are two steps for that running qb, he will decide to hold it and run, but he runs only as a scramble (tries to extend outside the pocket) he then still has his eyes down field looking to dump it off. If nothing is there he will tuck it and that is the corners key to get off his block. Most of the time the wr will grab and hold and out comes the flag. Meanwhile a olb or safety has given chase down the los. Now if the wr just plain takes off, like I said, most running qb's can not make that throw while running to the side (not in a full run anyway). Your right if you miss, it is bad news, but anytime you miss a fast runner in a play like that, it is bad news. Same thing happens on a bad blitz. Only difference here is, YOU have decided the play and thus YOU should have the advantage. The whole idea is to take away the option of dumping it off (no matter how your cb plays it)and to force them to run. They can run to the side all they want either they can step out or get drilled when they hit the los. If they are the type to step out (as most coaches prefer) the clock stops (you have slowed the game). If they try to stay in, you have a olb or safety at full speed and after a few of those hits they will start thinking more about just taking it all the way to the side line and getting out.

 

[Foval21]

I think what your not understanding is the corner is just staying between the running qb and the wr. You want to push the wr right to the line and stay inbetween the two. Most of the time when you force the O to do all this (by crashing the DE) there are two steps for that running qb, he will decide to hold it and run, but he runs only as a scramble (tries to extend outside the pocket) he then still has his eyes down field looking to dump it off. If nothing is there he will tuck it and that is the corners key to get off his block. Most of the time the wr will grab and hold and out comes the flag. Meanwhile a olb or safety has given chase down the los. Now if the wr just plain takes off, like I said, most running qb's can not make that throw while running to the side (not in a full run anyway). Your right if you miss, it is bad news, but anytime you miss a fast runner in a play like that, it is bad news. Same thing happens on a bad blitz. Only difference here is, YOU have decided the play and thus YOU should have the advantage. The whole idea is to take away the option of dumping it off (no matter how your cb plays it)and to force them to run. They can run to the side all they want either they can step out or get drilled when they hit the los. If they are the type to step out (as most coaches prefer) the clock stops (you have slowed the game). If they try to stay in, you have a olb or safety at full speed and after a few of those hits they will start thinking more about just taking it all the way to the side line and getting out.

I would like to meet a defensive coordinator who would say we want the QB to scramble. If the QB scrambles it becomes backyard football and that is typically when defenses breakdown. You are intentionally saying you want that to happen. In this scenario you are putting your cb on an island. That is not smart football.

 

[olddude]

I would like to meet a defensive coordinator who would say we want the QB to scramble. If the QB scrambles it becomes backyard football and that is typically when defenses breakdown. You are intentionally saying you want that to happen. In this scenario you are putting your cb on an island. That is not smart football.

Why? If you send a blitz or your DE crashes a passing qb and you do not hit the qb, you have flushed the pocket. Same thing except your not sending another player (just crashing the DE), and you do not have to worry if the blitz gets there. Fast olb and safety and you now have leverage because you are pretty sure he cant beat you with his arm (you have cut off dump offs) and you know what he is going to do. I don't know any DC who would not want to know that. Plus you don't have to play man for very long at all.