Hawk Stock: Recruiting

HomerChampless said:
JonDMiller said:
Defensive secondary Coach Phil Parker has coached 14 Iowa defensive backs to the NFL and Iowa defensive backs have earned all-Big Ten honors 25 times. /QUOTE]

If I've remembered correctly, all of Iowa's DBs became safeties in the NFL.
Is this because Iowa never recruits cornerbacks with pro potential?
No. IMO, it's because of the scheme taught at Iowa.
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That's interesting i have never thought about that. I assume it's because our corners don't cover, they come up and tackle. That's more along the lines of what a safety does
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Good article jon. One thing about Nebraska is you say we can't compare us to them because they have national championships. But how did they get them? Before they had them they were no different then us. They had the same exact recruiting disadvantages. I think the big difference between us and them is that when they put great teams together they took advantage and then built on it, when we put great teams together we tank then fall back a step. On the attrition i wonder, everyone knows how good Doyle is and how good we are at putting people into the NFL. Do you think we push people harder then most schools and some people just can't cut it? If that's the case we can't really do anything to fix it because pushing people hard is probably the main reason for our success
 
STILLBUSTER said:
I get Iowa has proven it is a developmental program that excels at doing more with relatively less. In order to achieve this you also have to preach "execution" (What are the two fundamental concepts on which the entire philosophy of Iowa football is based? Development and Execution.)

While I would guess that all high-level coaches have personalities tending toward control and perfection, I suspect KF takes it to a higher level. Part of it is out of necessity -- if you're going to field a less-talented, physically / athletically average team (which is what the majority of Iowa recruits are, according to the inherent recruiting disadvantage of Iowa mentioned your analysis) you have to emphasize near perfect execution of fundamentals and strategy.

Probably my biggest criticism is that KF & crew often wear that "developmental program" badge of honor to the point where they are blinded by their "perfect execution" dogma and frequently do less with more.

This has become more evident since about 2005, as Iowa has routinely signed more 4* recruits (players that I would consider "field ready"), yet we all scratch our heads wondering why seniority continues to trump talent. While KF has become more willing to give those freshman a shot, he still doesn't seem willing to turn them loose.

I really suspect that the stagnation in the program, particularly noticeable over the last 5 - 6 seasons, is directly related to KF's own stagnation (turmoil) of accepting the youthful risk that comes with the reward of getting your talent some experience. I suspect he values that "blue-collar developmental player" that can execute over that "blue-chip player" that can perform.

I'm not advocating compromise of integrity or favoritism. I am advocating more willingness to accept the following:
-- CJ Fed might not be as good a blocker as Brad Herman, but he's a bigger target that is more likely to produce when you throw him the ball.
-- Carl Davis might occasionally shoot the wrong gap or get a little high when engaging the OL, but he's got 20-30# on Bigach and Nardo, which makes him a lot more difficult to move off the line.
-- McCall might have put one on the rug, but I'm going right back to him next series because I've got to keep Coker fresh and we need his quickness.

You can coach through mistakes but you can't coach size, talent and athleticism. Sometimes experience -- and failure -- is the best coach. You can chase your tail on development and perfecting execution but it shouldn't be to the point of stifling and wasting talent.

This is expecially the case when we see the true measurement of success -- the W's and L's -- have been no better because of it. In other words, there is less and less to lose in the short-term but much more to gain in the long-term by getting meaningful experience for your talent over rewarding seniority and development.
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This is incredibly well said. Gunna have to give it a +1
 
If Parker or Wilson become the next DC, we are in serious trouble. Norm is a great coach and was the 100% reason for the special teams success until 2005 and the D until know. There is not one reason I see that Iowa should give either one of those two the DC job.

Loyalty will be this coaches downfall.
 
"The 2008 Iowa recruiting class was ranked 9th in the Big Ten by Scout.com and 13 of the 25 signees are no longer with the program. Those Class of 2008 players would be the seniors on the 2012 team. Guys like James Ferentz and James Vandenberg were a part of that class and more than 50% of their 'signing classmates' are gone.

The 2009 Iowa recruiting class ranked 11th in the Big Ten (out of 12, as I am factoring in Nebraska's national class rankings into the Big Ten now). That class had 18 members on signing day and eight of them are no longer in the program.

Having that level of attrition in back to back classes which would now be your fifth year seniors and fourth year juniors is devastating to a developmental program like Iowa's."

Anyone have stats on why so many players from these two classes have left?
 
I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why Iowa is signing such low numbers.
I don't want them to oversign but the way they've done things it almost comes across as not even trying. The "aw shucks" approach.

This next class should be 25, there is no reason KF could give that would explain away anything less than that number. Sign a number that realistically gets 21 guys to senior day. Signing 21 is the EXACT reason why Iowa has 10 walk-ons on the 2-deep roster to begin with because of those 21, only 16-17 are going to make it to senior day. 17X4=68. You can't expect to compete with those numbers, its flat out incompetence to expect otherwise.
 
One of the overlooked reasons for a lack of instate talent is the lack of spring football and pee wee leagues in this state. These points are more of a factor in a low population state such as Iowa than in a state with a larger pool of potential participants.

..."One thing about Nebraska is you say we can't compare us to them because they have national championships. But how did they get them? Before they had them they were no different then us. They had the same exact recruiting disadvantages". PC HawK

A lot of the powerhouse schools built their reputations in the 60's and 70's when Iowa was in its dark period. Before Hayden there wasn't much of a program. Iowa went 15 (?) years without a winning season. Since then Iowa has won a few B10 championships but they have never seriously contended for the NC.
 
Nebraska gets their football recruits for much the same reason our wrestling team gets theirs..........but tradition and reputation only pay dividends for a period of time. You also have to keep a winning tradition going for the most part. They've had some minor interruptions in their football success but we've had some major ones. That is a factor.
 
And as one of the Penn State Linebackers said this year; "Iowa is a wrestling school."

That is Iowa's reputation. It's not a bad one. But it overshadows the football program.
 
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